What is modalism?

[KagomeShuko]

Over in one of the other forums, when somebody asked about the Holy Trinity, I directed them to the study I posted here and put a little excerpt from it.

Then, somebody replied to me "The would not amount to Trinitarian doctrine but Modalism, which is considered a heresy by Trinitarians" :( :sigh:

I don't know what Modalism is! :confused: Does anybody here know what it is? :confused:

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Organist]

I have not a clue.

Here is a link I've found on the subject:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm

[Jim47]

Here is what I found.



Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy...



Eric seems to teach modalism, a denial of the Trinity doctrine. Modalism is unbiblical and teaches that God is one person who manifests in three forms, not three persons (Trinity) as is the correct, biblical teaching. This, combined with his mandatory tongues speaking teaching below, puts him in the class of oneness Pentecostal theology, a false doctrinal position.







Modalism The error that there is only one person in the Godhead who manifests himself in three forms or manners: Father, Son, and Holy...

The Shepard Chapel teaches- modalism, the idea that God is one person who took different forms or modes. The Christian church long condemned modalism s...

[KagomeShuko]

I have not a clue.

Here is a link I've found on the subject:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm
Thanks, from that, it seems this person doesn't exactly understand the example. I used the "water" one as is in my study. . .but they seem to think I'm saying that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one being, then, it seems from the information there -

The Monarchians properly so-called (Modalists) exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person; thus the distinctions in the Holy Trinity are energies or modes, not Persons: God the Father (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) appears on earth as Son (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14142b.htm); hence it seemed to their opponents that Monarchians made the Father suffer and die. In the West they were called Patripassians, whereas in the East they are usually called Sabellians. The first to visit Rome was probably Praxeas, who went on to Carthage some time before 206-208; but he was apparently not in reality a heresiarch, and the arguments refuted by Tertullian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14520c.htm) somewhat later in his book "Adversus Praxean" are doubtless those of the Roman Monarchians (see PRAXEAS).
Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Organist]

Well, as the old saying goes, "we live and learn." In this case you taught me something! :)

[SPALATIN]

It may also be that modalism doesn't support one God existing in 3 persons simultaneously.

[CrossWiseMag]

It's like churches who have stopped using the name "Father, Son and Holy Spirit," in favor of the newfangled and politically correct "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier." God does indeed create, redeem and sanctify. But he does this as three distinct persons, and not as one God with three hats.

Calling God "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier" as a substitute for the name "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" can edge us closer to modalism.

[KagomeShuko]

It's like churches who have stopped using the name "Father, Son and Holy Spirit," in favor of the newfangled and politically correct "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier." God does indeed create, redeem and sanctify. But he does this as three distinct persons, and not as one God with three hats.

Calling God "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier" as a substitute for the name "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" can edge us closer to modalism.
I'd never change from Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[SPALATIN]

In the last 6 months, I attended a CMA (Christian Missionary Alliance) church one time just for my wife's sake. NEVER AGAIN. The children are present through the open singing part and then are dismissed for "Children's church" There was no opening invocation. The Sermon was a Bible Study with no distinction of Law and/or Gospel. My wife does not understand why I object to this kind of service now when a few years ago I was all up in it. I told her I have learned a few things since then that make me believe that the CMA service was theologia gloriae and not TC.

[KagomeShuko]

In the last 6 months, I attended a CMA (Christian Missionary Alliance) church one time just for my wife's sake. NEVER AGAIN. The children are present through the open singing part and then are dismissed for "Children's church" There was no opening invocation. The Sermon was a Bible Study with no distinction of Law and/or Gospel. My wife does not understand why I object to this kind of service now when a few years ago I was all up in it. I told her I have learned a few things since then that make me believe that the CMA service was theologia gloriae and not TC.
Definitely not TC. I hate that "being dismissed for children's church."

I have a friend who went to a baptist church and they did this. By the time she was 10 or 11, she quit attending church altogether. She's still a Christian, but she doesn't attend church at all - not even on Christmas and Easter. Sometimes she's gone with her grandmother to the Disciples of Christ church, but not often.

It's kind of sad, too, because she is now engaged to be married to a guy with an 8 year old daughter, and she doesn't like him being interested in Lutheranism - he's a former Catholic, but from my talks with him, he seems to be very inline with scriptures and Lutheran theology!

His daughter even told him he was confused about the Holy Trinity. . .he has no idea what my friend is telling his daughter, and neither do I!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Organist]

A church I used to belong to had "children's church" but that seemed a godsend, because some of the children were so disruptive in church the audience couldn't hear anything. However, I felt there was no choice either, because our kids were basically good, but if they said anything, the person in front of us would turn around and say, "you know, we have a children's church they should go to" and it turned me totally off. Maybe that's why we changed churches!

[ByzantineDixie]

I have such STRONG opinions about having children in church I just couldn't pass up commenting. We brought our boys to church every Sunday and had them sit in church with us. We did learn to sit up front where the kids can see what is going on. (My one son once drew a picture about being in church and all that was in the picture was the large stained glass rosette window which was at the front of the church above the altar and these round things...which we subsequently identified as the backs of peoples heads. That picture taught us much...we moved pews after that!)

We used the nursery as punishment when the children misbehaved severely. Trust me...while it can seem fun to the kids to be in the nursery when they know they have behaved poorly and that their parents view the nursery as punishment (as well as a place only for the smallest of babies), it sucks all the fun right out of being there. It wasn't long before the "threat of being taken to the nursery" was more than adequate to solicit good behavior.

I LOVE to hear kids in church. I don't mind the commotion and I don't mind crying...I don't mind any of it. I mind when they are kept away.

And regarding modelism...I'll be honest Bridget...I long since stopped trying to explain the Trinity. Any feable attempt I make seems to fall into one heretical category or another. Its just too hard to explain...its a mystery. Now I just pull out the Athanasian Creed and stop at that. Recht also had a avatar that presented a good visual relationship...maybe he will post it here? (hint)

Peace

Rose

[KagomeShuko]

I LOVE to hear kids in church. I don't mind the commotion and I don't mind crying...I don't mind any of it. I mind when they are kept away.

And regarding modelism...I'll be honest Bridget...I long since stopped trying to explain the Trinity. Any feable attempt I make seems to fall into one heretical category or another. Its just too hard to explain...its a mystery. Now I just pull out the Athanasian Creed and stop at that. Recht also had a avatar that presented a good visual relationship...maybe he will post it here? (hint)


I too, love hearing kids in church. It's great to hear them - whatever it is - crying, babbling, questions, etc. I was always taken to church as a child, too, and not left in some children's church or Sunday school during the service.

I couldn't see much or understand much when I was little, but I learned. I remembered that I didn't even know people lit the candles until I was SCHEDULED (surprisingly at that) to be an acolyte and learned how to acolyte in one short morning!

In the thread where the person said about modalism, there have been plenty of trinitarians trying to show them the trinity and that it is also a mystery. I konw that the Athanasian's Creed has been posted at least once. I think we are running out of things to say!

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Organist]

It may also be that modalism doesn't support one God existing in 3 persons simultaneously.

I don't want to worship a Holy God who can be an "actor" ! :holy: