Bl. Augustine

[JM]

What place does Bl. Augustine and his works have in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

[xenia]

This is a question for Julio!

Meanwhile, he is honored by the Orthodox and is called by most Orthodox "Saint" Augustine, although there are a few dissenters. He went off track a bit on the predestination issue (and which, as Julio has noted elsewhere, some other parties took to extremes) but generally speaking, he's regarded as a man of God. I can't say that I've ever seen an Orthodox church named after St. Augustine, or an icon of him in a church, so there is some ambivalence.

[JM]

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/augustine/staug.jpgHere's an ikon.

[Julio]

Dear Street Preacher,

Here's an excellent article on this subject:

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8153.asp (http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8153.asp)

Also, the ever-memorable Hieromonk Seraphim Rose wrote a beautiful book on the subject, called precisely The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church (http://www.stherman.com/catalog/chapter_one/bl_aug_book.htm), of which His Eminence, Archbishop Mark of Berlin has said:

We all know the weaknesses in the writings of the blessed Augustine. But the Church never passed judgement on him for this, especially as he constantly emphasized that he was expressing his personal opinion and did not wish to impose it on others. Many of his writings he reworked and rewrote before the end of his life. We can find equally weak points in the writings of almost all the Holy fathers, but we are not about to cross out the name of St. Basil the Great from among the saints because he made—from our point of view—incorrect expressions about the Holy Trinity, which are due partly to his caution in polemic with heretics and schismatics and partly to the imperfect theological thought of his time. If the author refers to the lack of a service to St. Augustine, he should look further and seek the reasons in something one might call Greek chauvinism. Must we really give up celebrating the Presanctified Liturgy because the Greeks did not trouble to compose a service in honor of St. Gregory the Dialogist? In the Russian Church it is customary to call Augustine of Hippo "the blessed." Concerning his significance and veneration, the late priestmonk Seraphim (of Platina) wrote a splendid and truly Orthodox book. With his book one can fully agree.
As for:

I can't say that I've ever seen an Orthodox church named after St. Augustine, or an icon of him in a church, so there is some ambivalence.
There exist icons of St Augustine the Blessed, such as this one:

http://www.skete.com/moreinfo.cfm?Category=97&Product_ID=1179

and one, with relics embedded, at the Ascension Church in the Semenovsky Monastery as listed here:

http://www.days.ru/Hram/r4.htm

There also exist Monasteries and Churches dedicated to him, such as the one in Evpalio (Greece). Also, one must note that the now retired Metropolitan Avgoustinos of Florina is named after him, as was one of the Archbishops of Athens in the 19th century. Also, a Service to him exists both in Greek (complete with a Paraklesis and Akathist!) and in Slavonic (this last one having been written by the ever-memorable Archimandrite Amvrosy Pogodin, at the request of St John of Shanghai and San Francisco).

This is the entry for June 15 in Bulgakov's Desk Manual for Church Servers (Kharkov, 1900; translation by His Grace, Bishop TIKHON of San Francisco, and edited by me for this post):

Blessed Augustine, Bishop of Hippo. A native of Tagaste (in Africa), blessed Augustine, although raised by his pious mother, Monica, in his youth followed her instructions very little. Studying legal oratory in Carthage, he led a dissolute life, and after seeking the answers for what agitated his soul, he went from one philosophy to another. After completing his education he taught rhetoric, af first near home, then in Milan. Here, under Saint Ambrose's direction, he became familiar with the Holy Scripture, and being astounded by the height of Its teaching, he was baptized and gave away all his possessions to the poor, became a monk and lived for three years in isolation and strict ascetics labors. In 391 Valerian, Bishop of Hippo ordained him to the Priesthood, and 395 he became Vicar Bishop and after Valerian died replaced him. For the 35 years of his episcopate he was a zealous pastor, which was especially revealed in his oral and written battles with the Donatists, Manicheans, and Pelagians and was spoken of as "Great Teacher" and "Blessed". He died in 430, being 76 years old. Of the multitude of works by him, these are specially remarkable: the Confessions, 17 books Against the Pelagians, the City of God, and On Christian Doctrine.
Vladyka then remarks:

Here we see that the Saint was called "Blessed" even while alive, and continues to be called "Blessed" in glory. One may think of Theodore the Branded. Perhaps it would be more accurate to adopt this style when referring to him, St. Augustine the Blessed.
Now an entry under June 15 in the Prologue from Ochrid by St Nikolai Velimirovich:

Blessed Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

He was turned from paganism to Christianity through the advice, tears and prayers of his mother, Monica. He was a great doctor of the Church and an influential writer, but with certain unacceptable extremes in his teaching. He served and glorified the Lord for 35 years as bishop of Hippo and lived 76 years on earth in all, from 354 to 430.

[JM]

Is it a sin (according to the Orthodox Church) to believe, in Augustines teachings?

[Julio]

Orthodox Christians shoud not hold to the particular teachings of any saint or teacher, simply because we are to hold the whole of the holy and salvific revealed teachings of the Orthodox Church. The desire to call oneself "Augustinian", or "Photian", or whatever is a problem, yes, a sin, and it is rooted in pride, which would have us feel unique or especially enlightened. We should, instead, strive to imitate St John Chrysostom, of whom it was said that he had no theology of his own, but only that of everyone else in the Church.

[MariaRegina]

This is a question for Julio!

Meanwhile, he is honored by the Orthodox and is called by most Orthodox "Saint" Augustine, although there are a few dissenters. He went off track a bit on the predestination issue (and which, as Julio has noted elsewhere, some other parties took to extremes) but generally speaking, he's regarded as a man of God. I can't say that I've ever seen an Orthodox church named after St. Augustine, or an icon of him in a church, so there is some ambivalence.

Dear Xenia:

I think our TAW moderator Brewmama belongs to St. Augustine Orthodox Church in Colorado. It's under the Antiochian Archdiocese of America.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I regard Austine as being a saint, but I think he had a pretty nasty case of scruples in The Confessions. Being he is recognized as a saint, there would be no problem writing an icon of him, but I have not seen very many icons of him written, if any.

[Jason of Wyoming]

I loved his Confessions! I relate with a lot of what he went through, and I was blessed from reading this text.

[Julio]

I regard Austine as being a saint, but I think he had a pretty nasty case of scruples in The Confessions.
Nah. I think what he had in The Confessions was a pretty clear case of repentance. ;)

Being he is recognized as a saint, there would be no problem writing an icon of him, but I have not seen very many icons of him written, if any.
There's a link to one above! Also, I've seen a picture of an icon of him in the old chapel at St Vlad's. It's a picture of a service there with the ever-memorable Metropolitan Leonty serving. I'll have to ask my godfather's Matushka (who is the Metropolitan's granddaughter) if she allows Father to steal it from her album to be scanned. *grin*

[Orthosdoxa]

My former priest once said, "85% of saints are right 85% of the time." And St. Augustine's teachings may have been slightly less than 85% right. ;) But as others have said, we don't look to just ONE saint or ONE man (other than Christ) to help us know Truth. The Bible says that the CHURCH is the pillar and ground of Truth, not an individual. And following the example set in Acts 15, we look to what the Church as a whole, in concilliarity, has taught throughout the ages.

Street Preacher, I am thoroughly enjoying your questions! I'm curious - do you have an interest in Orthodoxy? Just curious? Or something else? At any rate, I'm glad you've joined us! :)

[Michael the Iconographer]

As Anonykat said, everything within Orthodoxy is taken within the context of the Orthodox Faith. As Matrona has pointed out to me time and again, there are very famous saints who have spoken on things and have been in error. We can not say "St. Augustine said this and therefor it has to be right," but rather we say "let us look at this teaching within the greater context of what the rest of the Church Fathers have had to say on the matter."

[Julio]

My former priest once said, "85% of saints are right 85% of the time."
I love this! I have filed it in my mental archive of memorable quotations. ;)

[xenia]

I think our TAW moderator Brewmama belongs to St. Augustine Orthodox Church in Colorado. It's under the Antiochian Archdiocese of America.

(And also the pictures posted of the icons.)

Ha! I learn something new everyday. Thanks!

[MariaRegina]

(And also the pictures posted of the icons.)

Ha! I learn something new everyday. Thanks!

You are welcome!

How did you get that holly wreathe around your bunny's head?

[xenia]

How did you get that holly wreathe around your bunny's head?


Photoshop.

[MariaRegina]

Photoshop.

Good job!

[JM]

Orthodox Christians shoud not hold to the particular teachings of any saint or teacher, simply because we are to hold the whole of the holy and salvific revealed teachings of the Orthodox Church. The desire to call oneself "Augustinian", or "Photian", or whatever is a problem, yes, a sin, and it is rooted in pride, which would have us feel unique or especially enlightened. We should, instead, strive to imitate St John Chrysostom, of whom it was said that he had no theology of his own, but only that of everyone else in the Church.
Does that mean the orders of Monks and Nuns that collect themselves around the teachings of a Saint are prideful? :crossrc:

I can't by conscience deny St. Augustine's teaching, would an Orthodox Church member in the same state still be considered 'Orthodox?' :crosseo:

[Marjorie]

What about St. Augustine's teaching do you refuse to deny? Most of what he says is considered fine by Orthodox standards. And a lot of what he has said has just been misinterpreted.

And no monks or nuns follow one saint in particular for dontrine. Monks and nuns follow the Church in its completeness and wholeness. Yet of course there are some who have devotions to a particular saint; that is different.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Orthosdoxa]

I would also like to know which aspect of St. Augustine's teachings you refer to.

Marjorie made a good point about how "most" of what he said is fine. He was a Manichean before being received into the Holy Church, and it is said that he didn't ever completely shed those heretical teachings. Some of what he said laid the seeds for what Anselm later sowed into "the doctrine of satisfaction", which most western Christians hold to today, and which we see as a grave heresy. Nevertheless, it is a mistake to say that Augustine invented this heresy, though his works did contribute to it.

Er, anyway, which teaching were your referring to? :)

[Michael the Iconographer]

Does that mean the orders of Monks and Nuns that collect themselves around the teachings of a Saint are prideful?

I think you have mistaken Orthodoxy with Roman Catholicism here. There are orders of Roman Catholic Priests/Monks/Nuns based on the rule of a certain saint, but within Orthodoxy there is but one rule and that is the Monastic Rule.

[xenia]

Time for ol' Xenia to hop into a nice hot tub with her copy of Fr. Seraphim's The Place of Bl. Augustine in the Orthodox Chruch. See you all in a few hours with a report.

[NewToLife]

I personally have an icon of Blessed Augustine, I look to him as a father who can illustrate for us piety and what it means to repent ( a critical area for all of us ).

[Michael the Iconographer]

I personally have an icon of Blessed Augustine, I look to him as a father who can illustrate for us piety and what it means to repent ( a critical area for all of us ).

Are you able to post the icon of Augustine on line?

[NewToLife]

Are you able to post the icon of Augustine on line?

Sorry, I dont have a scanner and its a wooden icon from Greece, I'll see if i can find a copy online somewhere though.

[NewToLife]

http://www.religiousnet.com/rqt_wst22.html

The icon at this link looks similar to the one i own.