What are the Controversial Differences?

[tattedschmoe]

hello everyone.

i have never once heard of coptic & oriental Orthodox denomination. i have a book about the Eastern Orthodox church, so i hope that it shows both sides here with Eastern Orthodox and Coptic and Oriental Orthodox.

i am wanting to know what the controversial differences are between let's say, Roman Catholicism, Protestanism, Eastern Orthodox and Coptic & Oriental Orthodox.

any good references online possibly?
any good books on coptic & orinetal orthodox?

any discussion or references would be greatly appreciated :)

[Yeznik]

Here is a website that is promoting unity in between the EO and OO.

http://orthodoxunity.org/index.html

[Jason of Wyoming]

That's a great website, Yeznik!

[tattedschmoe]

thank you for the website. i'm looking at it now.

i've also been doing some research on it myself and found something rather interesting.

i found the Armenian Church listed. now as a "Protestant" if you want to call me that, i've always heard this was heresy, so i just didn't worry about it, and i never investigated, and now honestly i regret that choice. i always heard how people who are Armenians deny the nature of God in Christ, but when i was reading about their beliefs, i was astounded. i've been a Christian for about 11 years now, and i'm not being prideful about that, but at least i feel safe to think that i do know something about this faith i've believed in for over a decade now. and when i was reading about their beliefs of the nature of Christ, i just thought, what is so heretical about that? they don't deny Christ's nature as God, they just say there's on nature of Christ, both of them together. that to me makes logical and rational sense. because Christ was a human being and God at the same time, so why wouldn't that be just one nature of Him, two parts combined into one?

so i just found that really interesting and intriguing to say the least. God Bless you all! <><

[Jason of Wyoming]

because Christ was a human being and God at the same time, so why wouldn't that be just one nature of Him, two parts combined into one?
I believe the argument resides in the incompatibility of the human nature and the divine one. Christ is 100% God and 100% human. A 50/50 argument seems to diminish Christ somehow.

[Carl the Copt]

It is a sad day to see Erwin's efforts at unity in shambles. I would hope people would pay attention to the site that Yeznik posted.
Carl the Copt

[Yeznik]

Your are all welcome :wave:. Ephesians 4:5 (http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians 4:5&version=31) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

[Jason of Wyoming]

It is a sad day to see Erwin's efforts at unity in shambles. I would hope people would pay attention to the site that Yeznik posted.
Carl the Copt
What are you talking about?

[Carl the Copt]

The point of being a Christian is to be in love with all people and one with them through the Love that God has for all people. Now when we come to the Church all of us are more concerned about doctrines and colors of skin and doctrines and other issues that take what should be one and split it to goodness knows how many sects. We need to be one and I stand for those who are for unity and not division and that is what my post was saying.
Carl the Copt

[Organist]

The point of being a Christian is to be in love with all people and one with them through the Love that God has for all people. Now when we come to the Church all of us are more concerned about doctrines and colors of skin and doctrines and other issues that take what should be one and split it to goodness knows how many sects. We need to be one and I stand for those who are for unity and not division and that is what my post was saying.
Carl the Copt

I do agree with this completely. It concerns me the doctrines become more important than our caring about others, and what Jesus actually said. I realize doctrines were placed to keep from heresies, but we must look past these, and place more emphasis on Christian brotherly/sisterly love. Absolutely. :amen:

[Carl the Copt]

Thank You SerenityBlue for that post. There is hope even though sometimes it seems there is not. Thanks again.
Carl the Copt
I do agree with this completely. It concerns me the doctrines become more important than our caring about others, and what Jesus actually said. I realize doctrines were placed to keep from heresies, but we must look past these, and place more emphasis on Christian brotherly/sisterly love. Absolutely. :amen:

[Organist]

Thank You SerenityBlue for that post. There is hope even though sometimes it seems there is not. Thanks again.
Carl the Copt

There is always hope. With God, all things are possible. We must look at the greater scope of things......see the wider picture. The message of Jesus has surrounded the world, in diverse cultures with people of differing personalities. However, the "differences" are merely between our ears.

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" 1 John 4:2

[tattedschmoe]

see this is my point with religion, the church, and everything else with Christianity. if Jesus didn't live the way He did for the Father, this religion would be the biggest joke ever. that's why i will gladly remain gnostic now about a lot of things, and just stand firm on the fact that Jesus is the Way, The Truth and the Life, and that we are to live by His example and go out and make disciples of Him, not us.

[Orthosdoxa]

see this is my point with religion, the church, and everything else with Christianity. if Jesus didn't live the way He did for the Father, this religion would be the biggest joke ever. that's why i will gladly remain gnostic now about a lot of things, and just stand firm on the fact that Jesus is the Way, The Truth and the Life, and that we are to live by His example and go out and make disciples of Him, not us.
Just wanted to clarify - did you mean "agnostic"? (as opposed to gnostic?)

[tattedschmoe]

Just wanted to clarify - did you mean "agnostic"? (as opposed to gnostic?)
actually, i mean which ever word goes for lack of knowledge. i mean at least with gnostic, they believe in Jesus Christ. too many times i've seen agnostics have no stance on Christ, and i have a very strong and set stance on Jesus Christ. the rest, i am questioning and relearning or dare i say, rediscovering my faith.

[Orthosdoxa]

actually, i mean which ever word goes for lack of knowledge.
Agnostic.

i mean at least with gnostic, they believe in Jesus Christ. too many times i've seen agnostics have no stance on Christ
The gnostic religion believes there are two gods, one good and one evil, and that all matter is evil, and that salvation is a matter of secret knowledge they must obtain (hence their name). And agnostics, of course they have no stance on Christ - the very meaning of agnosticism is to say there might be a god, there might now, we just can't know, yaddah yaddah yaddah.

Sorry, not trying to sound like a know it all. I think you just mixed up some terms, because "gnostic" and "agnostic" refer to two very specific belief systems. But I do understand what you're trying to say - that you don't know much about what doctrine is correct, all you know is that you believe in Jesus. Which I understand completely. That's the point I was at a few years ago, when I was sooooo tired of my different Baptist preachers telling me conflicting things about practically everything. My search for Truth and Original Doctrine is what led me into Orthodoxy.

, and i have a very strong and set stance on Jesus Christ. the rest, i am questioning and relearning or dare i say, rediscovering my faith.
Like I said, been there done that, and totally understand what you mean now. God bless you on your journey as you seek Him.

LK

[tattedschmoe]

Agnostic.


The gnostic religion believes there are two gods, one good and one evil, and that all matter is evil, and that salvation is a matter of secret knowledge they must obtain (hence their name). And agnostics, of course they have no stance on Christ - the very meaning of agnosticism is to say there might be a god, there might now, we just can't know, yaddah yaddah yaddah.

Sorry, not trying to sound like a know it all. I think you just mixed up some terms, because "gnostic" and "agnostic" refer to two very specific belief systems. But I do understand what you're trying to say - that you don't know much about what doctrine is correct, all you know is that you believe in Jesus. Which I understand completely. That's the point I was at a few years ago, when I was sooooo tired of my different Baptist preachers telling me conflicting things about practically everything. My search for Truth and Original Doctrine is what led me into Orthodoxy.


Like I said, been there done that, and totally understand what you mean now. God bless you on your journey as you seek Him.

LK
well i believe there are more than one gods out there. why would there be the the 1st and 2nd commandments? i'm not here to debate about that, because there's nothing that can be said to change my mind there. scriptures clearly tell us about Baal and other various of gods out there. it's just, Yahweh is the right God.

and dare i say, salvation is not quo say a secret, but i believe we constantly work out our salvation. a journey with Christ. never reaching some theological point of convincing, but just constantly learning and using everyday to grow and grow with God. which is why i'm set in where i am at with God. i have been to non-denominational/pentecostal churches, a reformed congregation church, quaker church, missionary church. the only place that has helped me out in my faith is a ministry an hour north of me. the pastor got his pastorate through the Missionary Church, but it isn't a Missionary Church. they seek to understand, question grow. it really helped me out because i was at the point that anything a pastor would say to me would never touch my life. because it was all the same rhetoric and i grew tired of being reminded of my faith, i needed more. something to be a part of to progress it.

so now, i really don't know where i fit with this idea of gnostic or agnostic. all i know is, i am a Christian. but i have a huge curiosity with the Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox Church. it started out with a curiosity about the Roman Catholic church. that lasted only for a short time. there are things with the Roman Catholic Church that, in my conscience, I cannot accept. i'm sure it's the same way with the Eastern Orthodox Church, and when i found the Coptic Orthodox Forum here, and read up about it more, i find my conscience possibly starting to find something i can adhere too. like i said earlier, if Jesus wouldn't have lived the way He did, and if the same outcome of the Christian faith would have went this same way, i believe this religion would be the biggest joke ever. everything is contradictory in a religion that is supposed to be non-contradictory. some say it is because of the devil, or man's interpretation, but that isn't enough to convince me of this problem. every denomination is a man made doctrine, that claims to have come from God. so i'm just fed up with the way denominations are now. i want to find a church taht constantly seeks to progress in their faith instead of repeating the same rhetoric, or making some outlined, flashy argument/propaganda to promote their convictions in God. truth to me is only in Jesus Christ alone. so maybe i'll find that truth being lived and sought for in the Orthodox Churches. sadly enough, there aren't any churches around me that are Orthodox and i have driving issues right now, and i miss the gathering of the brethern a lot. but i dont' want to walk into a church with a hard heart towards the church, and that is slowly dieing, so i am searching again, but now so much more convinced than i have ever been that Jesus Christ is Lord.

[Orthosdoxa]

i want to find a church taht constantly seeks to progress in their faith instead of repeating the same rhetoric
Now, this could be interesting, depending on what you mean by this. The Orthodox Church has firmly held to the same doctrines for 2000 years, the faith delivered once for all to all the saints, and She will NEVER change, because She already has/is the Fullness of the Truth. So if you want doctrines that are constantly changing and evolving, according to individual opinions, then Protestantism might be a better bet for you.

If, however, you want rock-solid doctrine, the doctrine of the early Church, in a Faith that expects YOU to constantly grow and change, to not embrace "the same old rhetoric", for YOU to constantly "evolve", as it were, into the image and likeness of God, then you've found the place. ;)

BTW, about being able to accept Coptic but not Eastern Orthodoxy - there really are hardly any theological differences between us. We split back in the 400's over a dispute over the nature of Christ that many today say was more of a political problem than a theological problem. In fact, I believe we will be reunited soon, maybe even within my lifetime.

Please let us know if you have any questions about Orthodoxy, or if there is anything we can help you with.

LK