Will they recieve salvation?

[mjterry87]

Will they Jews recieve salvation?

What do you guys think, will the Jews recieve salvation? I think they will, and over Christians too, and here is why. I know that Christians say that the only way to recieve salvation when Jesus comes back is to believe in Jesus, but I don't believe that is true. Tell me, how can one accept Yeshua when their people have been killed and persecuted in his name for two thousand years? How can one accept Yeshua when they don't even know who he is? How can one accept Yeshua when they are told by their Rabbi's not to? Do you guys think that every single Jew has read the entire Old Testimate and the entire New Testimate and said "Ok, I have read the entire Christian bible and do not accept Jesus because I am a dirty Jew!" Hell no, the truth is that most Jews don't know more about Old Testimate than most Christians! I am in Latin, and in Latin we not only learn the language of the Roman's, but their culture, and do you know what the Latin word for foreign is, it is BARBARUS! Barbarian comes from the word BARBARUS, and that is exactily what anyone who was not a Roman was to the Romans, a barbarian. Christanity started in Rome, so the idea lives on until today, only instead of being called a barbaian, you are not saved when you don't follow the state religion. Do you guys hear what I am saying? Yeshua will judge those with the knowledge that they have, not what they don't know! About 90% of us on here are Gentiles (I am a Jew, but was raised a Christian) and were raised Christians and come to MJ, HaShem has given us knowledge of the truth, or what we think is the truth, he has not done that to everyone. You see what I am saying? How can the Jews be judged on what they don't know? They can't, but they can be judged on how they act, infact everyone can, and will to. Christanity teaches that you can do whatever you want to and get away with it, but Judaism teaches that in order to recieve salvation you must do good deeds, tell me which one sounds correct. LOL So in conclusion, how and why would Yeshua deny the Jews salvation when they are his people. It is the Christians fault that they don't believe in him! Think about it!

[Jasmine-FL]

How is it the Christians fault when G-d is the one who has put a veil over their hearts? Their rejection of Jesus is all part of G-d's plan, not anyone's fault. But yes I do believe Jews are going to be saved through Jesus maybe not in the same package as Christians know him but reading the Tanach it is impossible that G-d will throw Jews in hell. Like my good friend Zemmy says He'd have to be heartless. And a G-d like that wouldn't even be worth beliving in. So yes, Jews will be saved THROUGH JESUS HOW I DON'T KNOW. :)

Luv,
~J~

[simchat_torah]

How is it the Christians fault when....
I dunno... slaughtering millions in the name of "jesus", adding pagan attributes and holy days, nullifying the Torah, and making Y'shua an antisemite. Is christianity at all responsible? ;)

I know what you're saying Jasmine, but I'd strongly have to say that a lot of it falls in the hands of christians. I highly reccomend a book written by Dr. Brown titled, "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood."

[mjterry87]

But do you guys see what I am saying, Yeshua is love, he is goodness, he is Torah, and Torah is Yeshua. Yeshua preached Torah, which is goodness, good deeds! Believing in Yeshua in human form will get you no where, heck, the Devil (if there really is one) believes in Yeshua, and is he going to recieve salvation, no! I know what I am saying goes against the teaching of Christanity, but if you the read the CJB and read between the lines, and just look at things through a love for mankind, how can you say that people, good people will not recieve salvation? You can't, you really can't, and Christanity has it's believers thinking, just like the ancient Romans, that anyone outside of the the religion (or Roman state) will not recieve salvation (or is a barbarian!)

The Catholic church sets up statues of Jesus, Mary and all these other people they call saints (they even pray to them too?), and they say that if you don't believe in the PERSON Jesus, no matter how good of a person you are, will not recieve salvation, where as in Judaism all you have to do is be a good person. Yeshua was Jewish, and he was the most important example of human life. He was G-D in the flesh! Now, which religion sounds right? Praying to statues and humans, and accepting a HUMAN and doing whatever you want, or being a good person and only praying to HaShem, and only keeping him holy? Tell me, what do you guys think?

[mjterry87]

[/font]
I dunno... slaughtering millions in the name of "jesus", adding pagan attributes and holy days, nullifying the Torah, and making Y'shua an antisemite. Is christianity at all responsible? ;)

I know what you're saying Jasmine, but I'd strongly have to say that a lot of it falls in the hands of christians. I highly reccomend a book written by Dr. Brown titled, "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood."

You can't really blame modern day Christians though, they have not realized what they have been taught. Just like Jews don't realize that Yeshua is Messiah, it is only time and misconception that one can blame. Don't worry though, when Yeshua comes back, all will know him (even the Christians, because they do not know the true him aka Torah), and all will live with him, for ever and ever! :wave:

[AlikhnKwizad]

When you say "good people," how do you define "good" ??

[AlikhnKwizad]

Also- what about the blood? Is blood not necessary?

[mjterry87]

When you say "good people," how do you define "good" ??
When I say good people, I mean people being good people. For example, a guy in Africa, who has never heard of Jesus, but provides for his family, loves his wife and children and does what his heart says is right. Or anyone for a matter of fact who does what their hear says is right. You don't need a book for that, with that said, Torah preaches good, heck, Yeshua wrote it! So in conclusion "good people" as explained above will recieve salvation.

[mjterry87]

Also- what about the blood? Is blood not necessary?What do you mean by blood? Jewish blood?

[simchat_torah]

You can't really blame modern day Christians though
Yet these modern day christians continue to perpetuate doctrines/theologies modeled after the above stated principles, nu? Why would a good G-d fearing Jew buy into that?

[TikkunIsrael]

I do not believe in dual-covenant theology ( G-d has plan A salvation for the Jews, and plan B salvation for the Gentiles). I don't think Christianity made up the concept of salvation through the Messiah. It is hinted at in the Torah ( Korah's rebellion) and is spoken clearly of throughout the New Covenant ( There is no other name under heaven or earth by which man can be saved). Who forgot salvation 101 and Romans 10? ROmans 9-11 was talking about G-d's plan for the Jewish people. As messianics, we love Romans 11, but are we able to take Romans 9-10? WHat about salvation 101 in Romans 10.. " If you confess with your mouth that Yeshua is L-rd and believe in your heart that G-d raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved..." Where does good works lead us in spite of Galations and Hebrews?

MJ... I do not believe in the teachings of man. In fact, I have renounced Christmas and Easter, celebrate the Jewish feasts, keep kosher, keep Shabatt, etc. My theology on the G-dhead is different than 90 percent of most christians. I love the Torah emphatically! I also love the New Covenant. I believe what both the Torah and NEw Covenant says... raw and uninterpreted by man. This is why I do not accept Talmud either. It is man's interpretations. In light of what the NT says, does your theology stand with scripture... Torah and NT? Martin Luther did get one thing right... sola scriptora... or scripture only.

I do believe that G-d is merciful and our ways are not His. We will be surprised who "makes it!" I believe that G-d can find the smallest ways of belief in Yeshua (even subconsciously) and that'll be enough. He wants all men to be saved and none to perish.

Dual-covenant theology or salvation by works, however, is not going to be the reason why.

MJ- I notice you are questioning alot of things by this thread... it is a good thing. It will strengthen your faith. Stay close to the Word and intimacy with G-d. Dry times and questioning have enormous growing pains, but make us into men and women of G-d.

[Bon]

[/font]
I dunno... slaughtering millions in the name of "jesus", adding pagan attributes and holy days, nullifying the Torah, and making Y'shua an antisemite. Is christianity at all responsible? ;)

I know what you're saying Jasmine, but I'd strongly have to say that a lot of it falls in the hands of christians. I highly reccomend a book written by Dr. Brown titled, "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood."

But you're speaking of certain Christians, not ALL christians.

It's like the christians saying that they hate the Jews and anything Jewish because some certain Jews killed "Jesus".

[Bon]

[/color][/size][/font]
Yet these modern day christians continue to perpetuate doctrines/theologies modeled after the above stated principles, nu? Why would a good G-d fearing Jew buy into that?

This is where the concept of free-will and God's will begin to confuse me.

I understand that everyone who has heard of God and chooses to believe in Him (whatever way that may be) can then choose to read and study it and decipher the truth for themselves.....but does Yahweh choose whether or not they will find that truth in their search, or if He will not even allow the inclination for some to even do so? (ie. leaving a veil over their eyes/hearts)

Is it that we have free-will to choose what we do while at the same time Yahweh has pre-destined our whole map of life? :confused:

Shalom from Bon

[Jasmine-FL]

[/color][/size][/font]
Yet these modern day christians continue to perpetuate doctrines/theologies modeled after the above stated principles, nu? Why would a good G-d fearing Jew buy into that?
Just like modern day rabbis who continue perpetrate the false gospel that Jesus used Kabbalah to deceive people.

i understand how you guys feel but remember there's always a way to look at things from a different angle. blaming christians for the death of Jews is like blaming Jews for the death of Jesus. generalisation is never a good thing cause we end up hurting those who are not guilty.

Satan will use whomever gives him a chance to it is not this group or that group but us human beings who allow ourselves to be used by Satan and do evil things for example i have a friend who is messianic in Israel and tells me of many horrible things some orthodox people do to her and her friends should i blame the orthodox jews as a whole? Of course not bad people happen to be everywhere

Lets not forget that many modern day christians haven't even heard of Torah and have no clue what the Catholic church did to jews in the past or that they still follow Catholic teachings. Truth is that people believe what they are told and told to read by their religious groups and hardly ever even consider thinking different cause they are afraid of changes

Luv,
~J~

[Jasmine-FL]

I do not believe in dual-covenant theology ( G-d has plan A salvation for the Jews, and plan B salvation for the Gentiles).
most of us don't believe in dual-covenant theology but to say that SOMEHOW Jews will be saved by plan A as you put it is not dual-covenant theology it is saying that this is a mystery and somehow G-d will make it work kind of the same as the discussion of free will and predestonation. you said yourself you believe only in plain scriptures and romans 11 says all israel will be saved. to me all means: 100%, whole, entire which means every Jewish person on the planet how do I concile that with Jesus being the only way i leave it up to G-d and G-d alone but Israel's redemption is promised all over the place. it would be heartless of G-d to put a veil over his people's heart and then cast them into the lake of fire. If that's the kind of G-d he is then we're safer in the lake of fire :eek:

Luv,
~J~

[AlikhnKwizad]

Ok- are we forgetting all those times G-d allowed enemies to defeat Israel in battle because of Israel's idolatry? Jewish women and children were murdered. Does this mean that G-d is now evil? The question at stake here is G-d's character. The very essence of who He is.

Moshe even told Israel that if they did not obey G-d that the land would vomit them out- Just like the peoples that were then being driven out of the land so that Israel could inhabit it.

'Jacob I loved- Esau I hated.' Explain that. Throughout scripture G-d clearly hardens the hearts of some while opening the hearts of others. Why did G-d speak directly to the murderous Kefa- and not to other Jews who were killing Messianics at the time??

What about all of the Jews who were struck dead by G-d for doing things like offering strange fire to the L-rd, etc.

Why did G-d establish the death penality? Was it not because G-d placed such a high value on life (HIS creation)? Jews were stoned for sin by other Jews. When it says "ALL Jews must be saved" it cannot mean every single one through out all of history, can it? If so, the unrepentant murderer and idolater would be accepted into G-d's presence.

To discount the atonement of Messiah in the name of 'G-d's grace' is insulting to G-d- and it is the grossest form of "Cheap Grace" that I know of. It is just as offensive as the christians who believe they can disobey the Living Torah and G-d will accept them anyway. Both extremes cheapen the sicrifice G-d made for His people.

[Pray4Isrel]

[/font]
I dunno... slaughtering millions in the name of "jesus", adding pagan attributes and holy days, nullifying the Torah, and making Y'shua an antisemite. Is christianity at all responsible? ;)

I know what you're saying Jasmine, but I'd strongly have to say that a lot of it falls in the hands of christians. I highly reccomend a book written by Dr. Brown titled, "Our Hands Are Stained With Blood."Yes I participate in those types of activities every weekend and in my spare time. **sarcasm**

I wouldn't consider every person that calls themselves a Christian and then carries out these atrocities to be a true Christian. It's very damaging to use the same deep-rooted hatred people have shown to the Jews and then use it in return. It is contrary to the teachings of Yeshua.

...And then I also remember that if Christians are painted in such a picture as the above description, why would anyone choose to post on a board titled "Christian Forums"?

...And yet another step further. How many Messianics here were brought to Messianic Judaism through Christianity, meaning, who here was an active Christian before they became Messianic? The results would be interesting, I am sure.

[muffler dragon]

Will they Jews recieve salvation?

What do you guys think, will the Jews recieve salvation? I think they will, and over Christians too, and here is why. I know that Christians say that the only way to recieve salvation when Jesus comes back is to believe in Jesus, but I don't believe that is true. Tell me, how can one accept Yeshua when their people have been killed and persecuted in his name for two thousand years? How can one accept Yeshua when they don't even know who he is? How can one accept Yeshua when they are told by their Rabbi's not to? Do you guys think that every single Jew has read the entire Old Testimate and the entire New Testimate and said "Ok, I have read the entire Christian bible and do not accept Jesus because I am a dirty Jew!" Hell no, the truth is that most Jews don't know more about Old Testimate than most Christians! I am in Latin, and in Latin we not only learn the language of the Roman's, but their culture, and do you know what the Latin word for foreign is, it is BARBARUS! Barbarian comes from the word BARBARUS, and that is exactily what anyone who was not a Roman was to the Romans, a barbarian. Christanity started in Rome, so the idea lives on until today, only instead of being called a barbaian, you are not saved when you don't follow the state religion. Do you guys hear what I am saying? Yeshua will judge those with the knowledge that they have, not what they don't know! About 90% of us on here are Gentiles (I am a Jew, but was raised a Christian) and were raised Christians and come to MJ, HaShem has given us knowledge of the truth, or what we think is the truth, he has not done that to everyone. You see what I am saying? How can the Jews be judged on what they don't know? They can't, but they can be judged on how they act, infact everyone can, and will to. Christanity teaches that you can do whatever you want to and get away with it, but Judaism teaches that in order to recieve salvation you must do good deeds, tell me which one sounds correct. LOL So in conclusion, how and why would Yeshua deny the Jews salvation when they are his people. It is the Christians fault that they don't believe in him! Think about it!
This may sound sacrilegious, but salvation has nothing to do with any certain person.

I have been commenting on the very idea of salvation in a number of other forums lately.

This is something to keep in mind. G-d does not change, nor has His plan for mankind. With that in thought, let me show you something:

Isaiah 45
22
"(1) Turn to Me and (2) be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.

I normally hate to take a Scripture out of context, but this speaks so well on its own. Salvation is given by the grace of G-d alone, and it is enacted after the repentence of the sinner. As you see above, "Turn to Me" is the same as repent.

So, there you have it. Those who are saved are those that repent and turn to G-d.

Now, when someone comes up to you with Romans 10:9, keep the following in mind:

Marcion did not even have that particular verse in his anti-semitic "New" Testament in AD 150. If he didn't have it, what does that potentially tell you?

m.d.

[visionary]

...And yet another step further. How many Messianics here were brought to Messianic Judaism through Christianity, meaning, who here was an active Christian before they became Messianic? The results would be interesting, I am sure.I agree, it is the walk that many have gone through in their first steps with Yeshua. Many, I am sure, will also witness that this is where the Lord lead them, in their first babysteps, and this is where they learn "the milk" of the gospel. It is when they started to mature in Yeshua that they started searching the scriptures for "the meat" and were lead further into the truth and its all encompassing big picture.

[Shimshon]

I was a Messianic Jew when I came to christianity. All be it a very immature MJ. And after a brief period of immersion G-d yanked me right out of her. Yes G-d matured me while I was in the world and breifly in the church. How better to teach someone than to show them the way NOT to be so you can know WHY G-d says what he says. I can hear about his ways forever but when you see him face to face. Then you know. I can hear all about false teachings and apostacies, but when you are lead through them and witness first hand the heresies spoken about you then KNOW them so as to avoid them. You can tell me there is a huge valley to cross and describe it indepth. But till I witness it myself, I know not truly how wide and tretcherous it really is.


Do I glorify my old sinful nature because it was in that condition that G-d started "leading" me? (though I sense some christians do exactly this) Yes G-d reaches people where they are. Some destitue on the street, some in churches, some in satanic cults. But, do we then condone the going to satanic cult because G-d lead us through it to him? Many are coming to faith out of the occult, islam, buhudism....do we then condone their old ways because it was through them that G-d called and lead them to bigger truths? Why then would you condone the church saying, "it was though the church that I learned some truth but when I matured I moved on, so going to church and being christian is o.k. because G-d calls people through and leads them on further to more truths"? Why is it o.k. to entertain "christian" pagan ways but not "occult, secular" pagan ways? G-d will reach you in hell if he so desires. Do we then say it's o.k. to go to hell because he reached me there? You must remove all the hametz from among you. Or don't you realize that a little will ruin the whole bunch? We are in a crooked world walking Straight paths in the wilderness. Not wandering along with the lost. IMHO christianity is no more milk to our soul than is a glass of water with a drop of arsnic. The water will keep you alive. But the drop of poison will kill you dead. Thus rendering the whole glass ruined because of the one drop of hametz. Do you really think G-d wants you drinking from a fountain that pours fourth both good and bad waters? What happend to Yisrael when they mixed the worship of other gods with worshiping G-d? He said, "it's o.k. I know your heart"? I believe scripture states otherwise.

b,shalom
shimshon

[muffler dragon]

Shimshon:

Is the 'her' you use above in reference to Messianic Judaism or Christianity?

Just asking for clarification.

m.d.

[Shimshon]

Shimshon:

Is the 'her' you use above in reference to Messianic Judaism or Christianity?

Just asking for clarification.

m.d.
m.d. Christianity

Shimshon

[visionary]

Just as there are seven churches that need counsel because they are not perfect, they have faults that the Lord is rebuking them for does not change the fact that he calls them His. True, repentence is most important. But first they must recognise their faults and know what they need to repent of. In each of the churches we are to see the things that are wrong in the spiritual life, and realize that a little bit of each bad trait is in us also. There will be a time when the churches will reach the point of being full of nothing but foul birds and beasts, but while there are righteous believers working in the churches, earnestly praying and leading people to more light. Remember they can not lead any further than they themselves have gone, who are we to say that they are not following the holy spirit's convictions.

The Lord is the one who will call all His children out when it is time. We are all called for a purpose, and as Daniel was an official of the Babylonian kingdom, doesn't change the fact that his prayers were heard by the Lord. We do not know if he returned to Jerusalem, even though he prayed for it. He could well have stayed in Babylon after the Medes and Persians took over.

Collectively, I would say the seven churches represents collective groups or catagorise of people, both in different generations as each played a larger role in the evolution of understanding, back then at the start (original city) and also alive and well in the last generation. It also represents different character traits in all of us. We are the last generation, who talk a lot but we no longer have the zeal of the apostles, who were willing to stand up and die for what they believed.

We, in this generation, are half hearted, lukewarm, wait and see, yada yada yada, "heard it all before" people. OR as the Lord put it, laodicean. O...we are closer to the truth, than a lot of folks, but we have no right to point our fingers in righteousness at those farther back in paganism calling them fools, when we are still spiritually wretched. Do we raise the dead, walk on water, live perfect lives in Christ....or is our walk about half a block behind our talk?...or is our faith smaller than even the smallest mustard seed, so much so, that we have no faith to move moutains?

If you think I am not including myself in this catagory, think again, for I consider myself the worst one here on the forum. I know how my mind works, and I abhor the fact that I can not seem to keep it focused on pure. I know my actions or should I say reactions demonstrate that I have yet to walk the talk no matter what my resolutions and prayers are.

I am looking forward to the time when the Lord will cleanse this temple, and it will become a house of prayer, without the noise of buyers and sellers of the devil's merchanise. It is so common to all of us, that like the days of old, we think it is normal and suppose to be this way. That is why we are lukewarm. We look forward to the day, but "not now" we tell the Lord, and so no wonder the Lord wants to throw up, we are disgusting, squabbling among ourselves as to who is more righteous....come on guys....they may become hard hearted, deaf to the voice of God, but that does not give us the right to judge in matters of the heart...we are just as wretched.

When/if we get to read the Books of Life for each of these individuals, and see what they prayed for, what they wanted in a relationship with the Lord, how they sought out the Lord, and how they listened to the Holy Spirit and followed Him, then we will see the righteous judgement and all we will be able to say at that point is "amen...you are the righteous judge in each and every case"...if we be so fortunate that the Lord would consider us one of His personal friends worth saving....thus able to look at the Books of Life.

[Shimshon]

Just as there are seven churches that need counsel because they are not perfect, they have faults that the Lord is rebuking them for does not change the fact that he calls them His.
Ephesus
Rev 2:5 Therefore, remember where you were before you fell, turn from this sin, and do what you used to do before. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your menorah from its place - if you don't turn from your sin!


Smyrna
Rev 2:10......Remain faithful, even to the point of death; and I will give you life as your crown.

Pergamum
Rev 2:16 Therefore, turn from these sins. Otherwise, I will come to you very soon and make war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Thyatira
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to turn from her sin, but she doesn't want to repent of her immorality. 22 So I am throwing her into a sickbed; and those who commit adultery with her I am throwing into great trouble, unless they turn from the sins connected with what she does; 23 and I will strike her children dead!

Sardis
Rev 3:3 So remember what you received and heard, and obey it, and turn from your sin! For if you don't wake up, I will come like a thief; and you don't know at what moment I will come upon you.


Philadelphia
Rev 3:10 Because you did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test.

Laodicea
Rev 3:18 My advice to you is to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be dressed and not have to be ashamed of your nakedness; and eyesalve to rub on your eyes, so that you may see. 19 As for me, I rebuke and discipline everyone I love; so exert yourselves, and turn from your sins!


Visionary, what does he say to each and every congregation? TURN FROM YOUR SINS!!! OTHERWISE..........??? otherwise you won't have that great a place in heaven with me?



The Lord is the one who will call all His children out when it is time. We are all called for a purpose, and as Daniel was an official of the Babylonian kingdom, doesn't change the fact that his prayers were heard by the Lord.
Yes, but did he eat the food of the goyim? (sin) Did he worship the idol? (sin) Did he refuse to pray 3 times a day to G-d as N'vukhadnetzar commanded? (sin)....No. He remained faithful to Torah. And was preserved through the trials. Because of his Faith. Because his actions proved his faith.

Sorry, I just can't see the "levels" of sanctification as is put forth by most christian theology. It's all or nothing. Not part and the rest is overlooked. Or i'm sinful but Yeshua is not and since I believe that I will be found righteous. Or I was never shown the way. ...or I was only lead as far as those who were teaching me could take me. We are given a Holy Spirit who leads us in all Truth. Why do so many people not follow his leading and teaching? Why do so many follow doctrines of men over the Ruach that is trying to live in their heart? Yes, why do I stumble and trip. Probably because we are in a battle....of our eternal souls non the less. And our Adversary is swift and strong, able to take down strongholds and mortals straight to hell. But the Spirit says "he who is in you is stronger than he who is in the world". So why is the christian theology as such; "I am weak and can not be holy for the life of me, that is why I need Yeshua. To be holy for me, so I don't have to" I though I was to be holy as he is holy? Live as Messiah lived. Die to my old sinful nature and live in my new Spirit filled nature. Dead to sin. Free to sin...WHY do the emmissaries exhort this message to no end if it's not true?

b,shalom
Shimson

[Henaynei]

Will they Jews recieve salvation?

What do you guys think, will the Jews recieve salvation? I think they will, and over Christians too, and here is why. I know that Christians say that the only way to recieve salvation when Jesus comes back is to believe in Jesus, but I don't believe that is true. Tell me, how can one accept Yeshua when their people have been killed and persecuted in his name for two thousand years? How can one accept Yeshua when they don't even know who he is? How can one accept Yeshua when they are told by their Rabbi's not to? Do you guys think that every single Jew has read the entire Old Testimate and the entire New Testimate and said "Ok, I have read the entire Christian bible and do not accept Jesus because I am a dirty Jew!" Hell no, the truth is that most Jews don't know more about Old Testimate than most Christians! I am in Latin, and in Latin we not only learn the language of the Roman's, but their culture, and do you know what the Latin word for foreign is, it is BARBARUS! Barbarian comes from the word BARBARUS, and that is exactily what anyone who was not a Roman was to the Romans, a barbarian. Christanity started in Rome, so the idea lives on until today, only instead of being called a barbaian, you are not saved when you don't follow the state religion. Do you guys hear what I am saying? Yeshua will judge those with the knowledge that they have, not what they don't know! About 90% of us on here are Gentiles (I am a Jew, but was raised a Christian) and were raised Christians and come to MJ, HaShem has given us knowledge of the truth, or what we think is the truth, he has not done that to everyone. You see what I am saying? How can the Jews be judged on what they don't know? They can't, but they can be judged on how they act, infact everyone can, and will to. Christanity teaches that you can do whatever you want to and get away with it, but Judaism teaches that in order to recieve salvation you must do good deeds, tell me which one sounds correct. LOL So in conclusion, how and why would Yeshua deny the Jews salvation when they are his people. It is the Christians fault that they don't believe in him! Think about it!you could replace "rabbi" and "Jew" with guru and hindi and the question would be the same, would it not?? or shaman and native indian, or iman and moslem.......

[AlikhnKwizad]

exactly.

[visionary]

Ephesus
Rev 2:5 Therefore, remember where you were before you fell, turn from this sin, and do what you used to do before. Otherwise, I will come to you and remove your menorah from its place - if you don't turn from your sin!


Smyrna
Rev 2:10......Remain faithful, even to the point of death; and I will give you life as your crown.

Pergamum
Rev 2:16 Therefore, turn from these sins. Otherwise, I will come to you very soon and make war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Thyatira
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to turn from her sin, but she doesn't want to repent of her immorality. 22 So I am throwing her into a sickbed; and those who commit adultery with her I am throwing into great trouble, unless they turn from the sins connected with what she does; 23 and I will strike her children dead!

Sardis
Rev 3:3 So remember what you received and heard, and obey it, and turn from your sin! For if you don't wake up, I will come like a thief; and you don't know at what moment I will come upon you.


Philadelphia
Rev 3:10 Because you did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test.

Laodicea
Rev 3:18 My advice to you is to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be dressed and not have to be ashamed of your nakedness; and eyesalve to rub on your eyes, so that you may see. 19 As for me, I rebuke and discipline everyone I love; so exert yourselves, and turn from your sins!


Visionary, what does he say to each and every congregation? TURN FROM YOUR SINS!!! OTHERWISE..........??? otherwise you won't have that great a place in heaven with me?


Yes, but did he eat the food of the goyim? (sin) Did he worship the idol? (sin) Did he refuse to pray 3 times a day to G-d as N'vukhadnetzar commanded? (sin)....No. He remained faithful to Torah. And was preserved through the trials. Because of his Faith. Because his actions proved his faith.

Sorry, I just can't see the "levels" of sanctification as is put forth by most christian theology. It's all or nothing. Not part and the rest is overlooked. Or i'm sinful but Yeshua is not and since I believe that I will be found righteous. Or I was never shown the way. ...or I was only lead as far as those who were teaching me could take me. We are given a Holy Spirit who leads us in all Truth. Why do so many people not follow his leading and teaching? Why do so many follow doctrines of men over the Ruach that is trying to live in their heart? Yes, why do I stumble and trip. Probably because we are in a battle....of our eternal souls non the less. And our Adversary is swift and strong, able to take down strongholds and mortals straight to hell. But the Spirit says "he who is in you is stronger than he who is in the world". So why is the christian theology as such; "I am weak and can not be holy for the life of me, that is why I need Yeshua. To be holy for me, so I don't have to" I though I was to be holy as he is holy? Live as Messiah lived. Die to my old sinful nature and live in my new Spirit filled nature. Dead to sin. Free to sin...WHY do the emmissaries exhort this message to no end if it's not true?

b,shalom
ShimsonThe victory, now in this life, through Yeshua, via Holy Spirit....The heart of the gospel, the eternal life starts now.