Question on Hebrew 8 jerem 17

[In Christ Forever]

I really have a few difficult questions and I will not be debating but looking at the responses only.

According to hebrews, the NC[which we are now in] would be made with the house of Israel, but not like the Old one. So how much of the OC would be "abolished"?
Also, it appears to be "missing" the house of Judah and Jeremiah shows the "SIN" of Judah would burn forever in His anger. They would also be plundered and destroyed and cast out into a land they do not know.:eek:

The only SIN I can think of is the future Crucifixion of Jesus Christ, God's begotten Son? Judah/Levi were in charge of of the temple that was destroyed in the first century.
What is the "SIN" :confused:
Thanks for any responses as this is troubling a lot of bible readers I know. God bless.:bow: :preach:

Hebrew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; ....10 "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: .......

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart,....... [i]3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of "your heritage" which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know;For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."

[visionary]

Let's start with the first text...I will pick up where you left off..
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Notice that this covenant is not left for the people to be the law givers and disciphers, but for God to put the laws in their minds and hearts. This is the work of the Holy Spirit....that is why they all will know God, from the least to the greatest.
Now on the second piece of scripture that you have quoted.

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah [is] written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart,....... 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of "your heritage" which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know;For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."I have gone down in the verse to where it is a "thus sayeth the Lord"...19 Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem; 20 And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates: 21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; 22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. 23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction. 24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein; 25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever. 26 And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD. 27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.
There you will find out what is wrong and where the need to repent of what sin. Just as it is today...the Lord still has the same attitude towards those who profess to be His and yet do not follow His Ways.

[In Christ Forever]

Let's start with the first text...I will pick up where you left off..

Notice that this covenant is not left for the people to be the law givers and disciphers, but for God to put the laws in their minds and hearts. This is the work of the Holy Spirit....that is why they all will know God, from the least to the greatest.
Now on the second piece of scripture that you have quoted.

I have gone down in the verse to where it is a "thus sayeth the Lord"...
There you will find out what is wrong and where the need to repent of what sin. Just as it is today...the Lord still has the same attitude towards those who profess to be His and yet do not follow His Ways.Thanks. I am only going to ask questions, not debate or refute as I need to know how to explain it to others and I want to keep it just on these 2 passages for now.

Can I ask if jeremiah is also talking about the destruction of the "OC temple" in the first century or is this yet future for the jews? It shows them losing their "heritage"and being "cast out" into a land they do not know.
Another words, would the jews of today be essentially "landless" out of the "spiritual kingdom" of Jesus Christ, the NC in effect now? That is what I am trying to find out? :preach: God bless.


Hebrew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; ....10 "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: .......

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart,....... [i]3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of "your heritage" which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know;For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."

[visionary]

Thanks. I am only going to ask questions, not debate or refute as I need to know how to explain it to others and I want to keep it just on these 2 passages for now.

Can I ask if jeremiah is also talking about the destruction of the "OC temple" in the first century or is this yet future for the jews? It shows them losing their "heritage"and being "cast out" into a land they do not know.
Another words, would the jews of today be essentially "landless" out of the "spiritual kingdom" of Jesus Christ, the NC in effect now? That is what I am trying to find out? :preach: God bless.

...as far as Jeremiah talking about the destruction of the OC temple in the first century and the losing their heritage and being cast out into a land they do not know....sure...we have seen the centuries go by where Israel was not because they were scattered.

Isaiah 18:7 In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.

From what you have posted, you are seeing an end to the literal people of God and a replacement with gentiles complete. Never think that what God has started he is going to abandon, not with an individual, and not with a nation. Especially a nation that has the title of being God's people. He can not total abandon His name sake.

Jeremiah 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

Now miracles of miracles, Israel was born again in 1948 and it has been in troubled times.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

I know that you have seen this as now fulfilled in Christ, but there is more....as Christ will return a second time. Ahh but that is another subject.
This is the blindness Paul spoke of for our salvation.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

When the fulness of the Gentiles has happened then the light will again shine upon Israel for the final ingathering.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

You find it spoken of in the shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ. Col 2:17

Exodus 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

This is a spiritual journey back to Mount Sinai, only this time for the people of God it will be with spiritual understanding, it is not an experience of fear and trembling like the first time for the people of God but it will be with joy and rejoicing for the people of God.

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

We are going to be entering into the final phase of salvation, when you have the perfect blend of Yeshua in Torah or in your language the perfect blend of Christ in OC which makes it new, not in as most think, a roman, anglo-saxon, blonde haired blue eyed, separated from the faith given on Mount Sinai.

[Sephania]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Vis, you look at this as future yet? Not come to pass in Nehemiah and Ezra's time?

[visionary]

Vis, you look at this as future yet? Not come to pass in Nehemiah and Ezra's time?and Nehemiah and Ezra's time....but that does not change the fact that for fullllllllllllllfilllllllment (complete) it has to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. The consummation is what happens in the fulfilment of the Day of Atonement.

[visionary]

Vis, you look at this as future yet? Not come to pass in Nehemiah and Ezra's time?and Nehemiah and Ezra's time....but that does not change the fact that for fullfillment (complete) it has to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. The consummation is what happens in the fall feast fulfilment of the Day of Atonement.

[In Christ Forever]

and Nehemiah and Ezra's time....but that does not change the fact that for fullfillment (complete) it has to bring in everlasting righteousness.
Didn't Jesus accomplish that?
Could it be the remnant of jews were "absorbed" into Israel after God destroyed Jerusalem in the first century
Another words, would the "jews/Judah" of today be essentially "landless" outside of the Blood of the Cross, worshipping in Spirit instead of OC law? That is what I am trying to find out? :preach: God bless.


Hebrew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; ....10 "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: .......

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart,....... [i]3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of "your heritage" which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know;For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever

Luke 21:22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land andwrath upon this people.



Zeph 1: 2"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. "I will sweep away both men and animals: I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. "I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all who live in Jerusalem."

[visionary]

Didn't Jesus accomplish that? "ever lasting righteousness" does not happen until you have His kindgom come....we are still at the stage of until the "abomination of desolation" is complete.

Another words, would the "jews/Judah" of today be essentially "landless" outside of the Blood of the Cross, worshipping in Spirit instead of OC law? That is what I am trying to find out? God bless. Have you studied where the blood of the cross is in the temple symbolic picture? It is in the outer court, those that worship at the cross must lead to become priests in the heavenly temple. It will not be safe in the outer court.


Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

You will want to get into the temple of God and worship therein, for that is the safe place. Those that are in the outer court will be trodden under foot.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

True, that without understanding of Yeshua the Messiah, they are yet to be baptised in the spirit, but that does not nul and void the covenant....the new part of the covenant includes you, the gentile as it does me the gentile. The commonwealth you want to belong to is Jewish faith as it was given on Mount Sinai only now it is given at Mount Sion.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Remember it is the Jews that hold the truth, and it is us who are to be brought in, as the grafted in branch.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

It is the Jews that will teach the first principles of the oracles of God. These greek and roman religions that spawn a slew of variations of themselves still know little about the truth, the living oracles of God.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

If you do not know the living oracles of God that came out of the hand of Jesus on Mount Sinai to Moses, how can you understand when he said not one dot or iota will be removed from the law til all is accomplished.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[Henaynei]

MOD HAT ON

http://www.nehemiah-center.org/Henny.jpg

Ok, folks - lets review the rules: (from Messianic Forum Rules, Reminders & Announcements (http://www.christianforums.com/t807529-messianic-forum-rules-reminders-announcements.html) )

3) Non-Messianic Posts: Non-Messianic members (eg. Protestant, Catholic, Non-Messianic Jewish members) can only post fellowship posts here or posts to ask a question regarding Messianic Judaism doctrine. Once the question is answered, there shall be no debate over the answer in this forum by the Non-Messianic members. Any debate or apologetic posts, as well as efforts to answer questions about Messianic Judaism by Non-Messianic members will be deleted or moved to the Interdenominational Doctrine Debate forum (or other appropiate forum) and warnings will be issued. In other words, only Messianic members can debate, answer questions about Messianic Judaism or engage in apologetics here.
This question has been answered three times and re-asked three times. It is immaterial whether the answer agrees with a pre-existang opinion or not. Restating the question repeatedly to try to solicit a different answer is considered equivalent to debating. Therefore, I request that each MJ parties in this thread make a final statement in answer to the question and then this thread will be closed.
MOD HAT OFF

http://www.nehemiah-center.org/Henny.jpg

[visionary]

"The Church that is in Babylon saluteth you, and so doth my son Mark" (I Peter, v, 13)
"Babylon" in this quote is understood to be Rome.

That Babylon stands for Rome, as usual amongst pious Jews, and not for the real Babylon, then without Christians, is admitted by common consent (cf. F.J.A. Hort, "Judaistic Christianity", London, 1895, 155).

[In Christ Forever]

This question has been answered three times and re-asked three times. It is immaterial whether the answer agrees with a pre-existang opinion or not. Restating the question repeatedly to try to solicit a different answer is considered equivalent to debating. Therefore, I request that each MJ parties in this thread make a final statement in answer to the question and then this thread will be closed . Hi. I was really hoping to get more people in Christ to respond, as it appears only 2 people have even responded to it:sigh::eek: Is it really that difficult for others or is it just a boring topic.

The house of Judah isn't included in the NC it appears.
Could it be the remnant of jews/Judah were "absorbed" into Israel after God destroyed Jerusalem in the first century
Another words, would the "jews/Judah" of today be essentially "landless/without a heritage" outside of the Blood of the Cross, worshipping in Spirit instead of the OC law, since Judah would burn in His anger forever? God bless with peace and love through Jesus Christ our Lord, King and savior and God the Father our Creator.:amen:


Hebrew 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; ....10 "For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: .......

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart,....... [i]3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders.4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of "your heritage" which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know;For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever

Luke 21:22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land andwrath upon this people.

Zeph 1: 2"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. "I will sweep away both men and animals: I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. "I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all who live in Jerusalem."

[Henaynei]

This thread is closed - others have not responded more than likely because the question has been answered. The repetition of the same scriptures with the sane bolds, colors and font sizing not withstanding - this subject is now closed.

b'Shalom
Henaynei
Administrator

[Henaynei]

This thread is closed. The repetition of the same scriptures with the same bolds, colors and font sizing not withstanding - this subject is now closed.