What is the sign of the Son of Man?

[Sephania]

27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon. 28 Wherever there's a dead body, that's where you find the vultures. 29 "But immediately following the trouble of those times, the sun will grow dark, the moon will stop shining, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in heaven will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.


What do you think is the sign of the Son of man is?

I have read where Christians believe that it is the cross, as in what Constantine saw in his dream. And in recent discussion on Jewish Star I have read that Metatron, also known as pre-incarnant Yeshua , has this Hexegonal Star on his chest ( is that where Superman came from Hmm :scratch: ????)

So what do you think it is? It must be big, and obvious because all the tribes of the earth will see it, but it is after the stars fall from the sky.

[simchat_torah]

I have read that Metatron, also known as pre-incarnant Yeshua , has this Hexegonal Star on his chestActually, if you read a bit closer, it says that the Metatron has a "V" on his chest. According to tradition it was David who then formed the V in a circle to make a star, as the Messiah/Metatron is spoken of as a morning star in prophecy. ;)

-yafet

[Sephania]

I'm sorry I didn't read carefully enough, kinda busy baking and cleaning and such for the holiday. However since you explained that it is not a star, could you explain how a V turns into a six pointed star by putting a cirlce around it? Also a 'V' is an english letter, wouldn't that be a Dalet you meant?

[simchat_torah]

Not "putting a circle around it" but making a circle OF V's. ;)

As well, it wasn't a "letter" but a symbol, it was merely a symbol. I used the letter V to illustrate. Please go back and re-read the original post.

thanks!
yafet

[Sephania]

Ok this is your exact quote: The "Angel of the L-rd" or the Metatron, appeared to David a number of times. Written upon the chest of the Metatron was a symbol that looked like the letter V. David later made these "V's" into a circle, forming the Mogan David (or a "star" as the Metatron/Messiah was prophetically known as the Morning Star). He then placed this symbol upon the sheilds of his elite fighting squad when they would go into battle. Whenever they would bear this symbol in battle they would easily defeat the enemy.

You say there was a symbol that looked like the letter V, again, the English letter ''V"? Then you said that King David ( I am assuming here the king David) made these "V's" (Now plural) into a circle forming the Magen David.

Where exactly is this information from?


That story sounds very similar to the revelation of Constantine.

[simchat_torah]

How does it sound similar to constantine? Constantine saw the symbol of the cross upon the sun, which ironically was the symbol of the sun g-d, in which he was the high priest of at the time.

According to Jewish tradition, the Metatron (messiah) appeared to David. Upon his chest was a symbol which looked like the letter V (if this is offensive to you, then so would Revelations, as the messiah appears with things written upon him). David then later taking that symbol and arranged it in a circle, with many of them circling to form a 'star' as the Metatron (again, messiah) was known prophetically as the morning star.


Granted, according to both traditions the men placed the symbols upon their sheild and were able to conquer, but there are many stories of similar nature throughout the Tenach/Torah. I think to liken these two stories together is quite a stretch.

[Zacharias]

The myths of Metatron are extremely complicated, and at least two separate versions exist. The first version states he came into being when God created the world, and immediately assumed his many responsibilities. The second claims that he was first a human named Enoch, a pious, good man who had ascended to Heaven a few times, and eventually was transformed into a fiery angel. Some later books adopt the first version, some the second, and in other literature both are combined. There are even two versions of the name Metatron, one spelled with seven letters, the other with six, lacking the Hebrew letter "yod." The Kabbalists explained that the six-letter name represents the Enoch-related Metatron, while the seven-letter name refers to the primordial Metatron. Despite the elaborate debate, the origin of Metatron's name is not clear. Many attempts have been made to explain it, but none of them is satisfactory, since the word has no real meaning or root in any language. Some authors think it may be derived from private meditations and visions, or even glossolalia. This article concentrates on the Metatron-Enoch version


Metatron is one of the most important angels in the heavenly hierarchy. He is a member of a special group that is permitted to look at God's countenance, an honor most angels do not share. In the literature, Metatron is often referred to as "the Prince of the Countenance."


In the Babylonian Talmud, Metatron is mentioned only three times, but the references are important. All three relate to the problem of Metatron's immense power, which may have caused some people to confuse him with God. In later literature he was even mentioned as the "lesser Yahweh" -- a serious blasphemy for the strictly Monotheistic Judaism. Later, some authors tried to resolve the issue by showing how the Hebrew letters of the name of a mythical predecessor, the angel Yahoel (later to be entirely identified with Metatron), were the same letters as those in the name of Yahweh. Another legend states that God himself named him so, out of affection. A fascinating legend tells of a particularly interesting and famous Jewish heretic, Elisha ben Avuyah, who saw Metatron sitting by God's side, occupying the same type of throne. This made Elisha suspect that two equal powers operated in the universe -- God and Metatron. The legend continues to explain that he made a false assumption, which indeed cost Elisha his position within the Jewish community. According to these scholars, God permitted Metatron to sit because, as God's scribe, he recorded the good deeds of the Nation of Israel. This story works very well with two of Metatron's many heavenly tasks: a scribe and an advocate, defending the Nation of Israel in the heavenly court.


Enoch, a pious teacher, scribe and leader of his people, is famed for the part he took in the tragedy of the fallen angels (see Watchers). Living during a time of great sins, around the flood, he had visited Heaven more than once. However, the time was ripe for a most significant trip. One night, two angels woke him up and commanded him to prepare for his journey. They took him on their wings, and showed him all the Heavens and their inhabitants, including a side trip to Paradise and to the place of punishment and torture of the sinners, which strangely enough was located not too far from paradise. He observed the activity of the sun and the moon, and made a visit of consolation to rebellious angels, the Grigori, succeeding in bringing them closer to God. After the tour, the great Angels Gabriel and Michael lead him straight to God's Throne.


Sitting next to God, Enoch was instructed in wisdom, and using his skills as a scribe, prepared three hundred and sixty-six books. When he learned everything, a most significant thing happened. God revealed to him great secrets -- some of which are even kept secret from the angels! These included the secrets of Creation, the duration of time the world will survive, and what will happen after its demise. At the end of these discussions, Enoch returned to earth for a limited time, to instruct everyone, including his sons, in all he learned. After thirty days, the angels returned him to Heaven.


And then the divine transformation took place. Additional wisdom and spiritual qualities caused Enoch's height and breadth to become equal to the height and breadth of the earth. God attached thirty-six wings to his body, and gave him three hundred and sixty-five eyes, each as bright as the sun. His body turned into celestial fire -- flesh, veins, bones, hair, all metamorphosed to glorious flame. Sparks emanated from him, and storms, whirlwind, and thunder encircled his form. The angels dressed him in magnificent garments, including a crown, and arranged his throne. A heavenly herald proclaimed that from then on his name would no longer be Enoch, but Metatron, and that all angels must obey him, as second only to God.

Article created on 29 December 1999; last modified on 27 November 2003.
© 1995-2004 Encyclopedia Mythica. All rights reserved.

Original article: http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/metatron.html

[visionary]

These are the signs in heaven that it is all but over.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.Imagine for a moment, that this is a literal event, and we see the door in heaven open and we see that everything is in place for the final fall feasts to be fulfilled in heaven as it is also happening on earth at the same time...


This visual comes after the stars and heavenly host is rolled back so that we may see the courtroom of heaven in its final procedings (Day of Atonement for us) Day of Judgement for others.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Now it happens that around the time period where Satan has come to imitate Yeshua's second coming, and he blasphemes against God....It is the final straw.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

As what happens in any court when the Judge enters the room, there is silence.

Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The court records are opened up

Revelation 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:Court is now in session.

Once Judgements have been rendered, and the Day of Judgment is over, the Day of Atonement is over....Jesus leaves the court room and puts on His Kingly robes...

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
We know that once Yeshua finishes His ministry as the High Priest in Heaven, there will be no man in the temple in heaven during the plagues, so that means "Yeshua has left the building" and will be returning to earth."
Revelation 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

He comes for us.

[Sephania]

Let's get back to the OP main question...........


What do you think is the sign of the Son of man is?


Matthew 24:27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon. 28 Wherever there's a dead body, that's where you find the vultures. 29 "But immediately following the trouble of those times, the sun will grow dark, the moon will stop shining, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in heaven will be shaken. 30 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.

[Henaynei]

After staff discussion this thread is being closed persuant to MJF rule:
4) Respect For Other Demominations: No posts that denigrate a Christian or Jewish denomination or group, including Protestant or Catholic denominations and the various sects of Judaism, will be tolerated. These will be deleted and the poster will be warned.

b'Shalom
Henaynei
Administrator