Do you believe that once you are saved, you are always saved?

[statrei]

I have known several people who were saved and then gave it up.

Example: The bible tells us how Satan was once Gods head musician and to have that postition i am sure he was, at one time, saved. However he let jealousy and strife take him over and then he turned evil.
Salvation is the divine response to the lost condition. One must first be lost before one can be saved. Satan was never lost so this discussion does not refer to him.

[rosenherman]

Originally Posted by: allsweetncool
I have known several people who were saved and then gave it up.

Example: The bible tells us how Satan was once Gods head musician and to have that postition i am sure he was, at one time, saved. However he let jealousy and strife take him over and then he turned evil.


Salvation is the divine response to the lost condition. One must first be lost before one can be saved. Satan was never lost so this discussion does not refer to him.Angels aren't saved, they can't choose to believe in God, they know Him and Jesus.

[LoyalFollower]

Actually, scripture is filled with many examples of godly men who fell from grace for various reasons later in their lives, ie Solomon, David, and so on. So yes it is possible for someone who has accepted Christ as their personal Savior to turn back to thier old ways. No one is totally immune to the tempations of the world, even if they have been cleansed from sin.

[PACKY]

god gave his only son because he loved his! Christ died for our sins.

[LoyalFollower]

Of course He did! No one is disputing that. The question was whether a man could fall from grace after accepting Jesus.

[statrei]

Actually, scripture is filled with many examples of godly men who fell from grace for various reasons later in their lives, ie Solomon, David, and so on. So yes it is possible for someone who has accepted Christ as their personal Savior to turn back to thier old ways. No one is totally immune to the tempations of the world, even if they have been cleansed from sin.How many sins do you have to commit to "fall from grace" as you said? Of course I am assuming that by "fall from grace" you mean the person is once more in a lost condition.

Darius

[LoyalFollower]

Technically speaking friend, any sin committed after being saved is enough.

[statrei]

Technically speaking friend, any sin committed after being saved is enough.So people are sequentially saved and lost everyday. What a roller coaster ride. I prefer the assurance of the gospel.

[SuperMama]

But I wanna ask - How does it feel to have that uncertainty in your life? How do you live knowing that God only might be there for you when push comes to shove?

If Jesus's blood was not sufficient once and for all - then the instant you get up off your knees having asked for forgiveness, your very being means you have sinned again and instantly condemned to hell. Any selfless thought, act of laziness, tardiness, or human behaviour would condmen you. You would have to be in constant prayer of forgiveness 24/7 to be sure of salvation.

I once met a guy who in a cavalier way said "I haven't sinned for 6 months" Of course this was a lie and he sinned in that moment at very least. People have some weird ideas. And sad ones, not least of which is the abilty to lose the free gift God has given you once you asked for it.

Kind of makes Christ an engenious fair weather friend really.

Stand in front of a beloved child and give them a gold wrapped gift. Then snatch it off them, and hand it back, then take it off them again. But give it back, but take it away again and then give it back. Base your gift giving and taking back on the childs actions over a life time on their moment to monent behaviour even though the golden gift you give them is forgiveness for that behaviour with which they were born and helpless to avoid.

Sound bizzare?

[faith by day]

I picked: Yes, once you are saved you are always saved.


Once you have God in your life, he never leaves you. He knows everyone by name, for always and forever. Just b/c you make not think hes there, or that you have converted to another religion, dosent mean that God has left you. He sent his son to die for you, and you take that gift and then throw it away, and God just throws you away too? I dont think so! Why give up something has great as us? I mean come on, he sent HIS ONLY SON!

[Gods_MyHope]

I don't believe that rubbish "Once saved, always saved." It's saying that you can get "saved" then turn around and rape someone, and it's okay to rape them because you're already saved. Anyway, doesn't the bible say that we sin daily, so shouldn't we daily ask forgivness of those sins, even if we don't realized that we did sin?!?

[statrei]

I don't believe that rubbish "Once saved, always saved." It's saying that you can get "saved" then turn around and rape someone, and it's okay to rape them because you're already saved. Anyway, doesn't the bible say that we sin daily, so shouldn't we daily ask forgivness of those sins, even if we don't realized that we did sin?!?First off, I don't think you have a correct understanding of what salvation is. But, using your definition, what it is saying is that someone who is saved would not go out and rape someone in the manner you described. Instead of thinking "I am saved and there is nothing God can do to me," you should think, "I am saved and there is nothing the devil can do about it." It should become obvious that those who oppose the notion in it proper context, are more focussed on the devil work than they are on the God's keeping power.

[LondonsBurning]

John 10 makes Eternal Security clear to me. Once we are in God's hand, it is impossible to be snatched out.

By the way, It is impossible for anyone today to commit the blashphemy of the holy spirit.

The Sin of the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit referred to contributing the acts of Christ on Earth to Satan, rather than the Holy Spirit. Christ is no longer physically present in this world. Therefore this sin no longer is valid.

[Christian Singer 84]

I believe once saved always saved.

[herev]

I would vote--none of the above
Once you are saved, you are not always saved, but it's not due to backsliding or losing your salvation--(as if someone took it away). It is instead my view that you are saved by faith, God has given us the gift of salvation and will never take it away, but you can give it back. If you were to stop believing or decide that there is no God or that Jesus did not die for your sins, you no longer have faith and are no longer saved.

[rosenherman]

Once you are saved, you are not always saved, but it's not due to backsliding or losing your salvation--(as if someone took it away). It is instead my view that you are saved by faith, God has given us the gift of salvation and will never take it away, but you can give it back. If you were to stop believing or decide that there is no God or that Jesus did not die for your sins, you no longer have faith and are no longer saved.

The action I understood to be "The Unforgivable Sin", was throwing back in God's face His gift of forgiveness and making Jesus' sacrifice useless. I can find no mention of unforgivable in the bible at all.

[rosenherman]

John 10 makes Eternal Security clear to me. Once we are in God's hand, it is impossible to be snatched out.

By the way, It is impossible for anyone today to commit the blashphemy of the holy spirit.

The Sin of the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit referred to contributing the acts of Christ on Earth to Satan, rather than the Holy Spirit. Christ is no longer physically present in this world. Therefore this sin no longer is valid.

No sin is "no longer valid". You can blaspheme the Holy Spirit in the way you describe. We see the acts of Christ everyday. He is on earth in us, by way of the Holy Spirit, and when we attribute to satan the acts of God that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You can also blaspheme the Holy Spirit by accepting salvation through Jesus' sacrifice and then later refusing it, saying that His sacrifice was for nothing, that salvation doesn't exist, or doesn't occur that way.

Check with God, the Holy Spirit will be glad to show you the error of your thinking.

[rosenherman]

I don't believe that rubbish "Once saved, always saved." It's saying that you can get "saved" then turn around and rape someone, and it's okay to rape them because you're already saved. Anyway, doesn't the bible say that we sin daily, so shouldn't we daily ask forgivness of those sins, even if we don't realized that we did sin?!?

Of course we need to ask forgiveness of our continual sinning, and God is gracious enough to provide us that forgiveness. Your error is in thinking that someone who is "saved" would rape. That is the act of a sick man who would not accept salvation. IMHO

[phylis]

That action is what I understand to be "The Unforgivable Sin", throwing back in God's face His gift of forgiveness and making Jesus' sacrifice useless.

Not really, according to some churches they are murder, adultry, etc.

But the concept of an Unforgivable Sin is unture. Remember the parable of the adulter where everyone was about to cast a stone, but Jesus said every sin is the same in God's eyes.

[rosenherman]

Not really, according to some churches they are murder, adultry, etc.

But the concept of an Unforgivable Sin is unture. Remember the parable of the adulter where everyone was about to cast a stone, but Jesus said every sin is the same in God's eyes.

I just did a computer search for unforgivable in 5 versions of the bible in english, it didn't occur once. I'm starting to think there is no "unforgivable sin".

[xxRachaelxx]

i think you have to keep working at your salvation

[bill16652]

why does it say that in the end times that unless those days be cut short even the very elect might be decieved. salvation is dependant on continual action not once. we are saved once but we must continue in that salvation

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

why does it say that in the end times that unless those days be cut short even the very elect might be decieved. salvation is dependant on continual action not once. we are saved once but we must continue in that salvation

Then we are not just "saved once" :P Baptized once sure, but salvation is a lifelong process

[bill16652]

salvation is a lifelong process i agree and forgiveness is dependant on repentance. repentance is an interesting word. it means a complete turn a dislike of what we are doing.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yep. Repentance is also a process. If we somehow stop repenting, we are walking backwards again, and are back where we started. Orthopraxis :)

[rosenherman]

why does it say that in the end times that unless those days be cut short even the very elect might be decieved. salvation is dependant on continual action not once. we are saved once but we must continue in that salvation

Salvation is Jesus' gift to us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Salvation is Jesus' gift to us.

This was never called into question

[SparkleDazzle]

A Christian can possibly believe that God is impossible and turn into an Atheist. That means they are still saved?

Do you believe that once you are saved, you are always saved? Please choose an option from the poll above...

[statrei]

A Christian can possibly believe that God is impossible and turn into an Atheist. That means they are still saved?Our difficulty clearly comes from erroneously believing that salvation refers to a condition when it only refers to an act. AFter one has been saved from a burning building one has the right to reenter that building. That final act does not negate the fact that the individual was saved.

[rosenherman]

An individual who makes the choice to turn their back on God and become an atheist is indeed lost. They made a conscious decision to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, and then made another conscious decision to deny that He died for their sins. That loses you your salvation. Backsliding is an aberration, not a choice to deny God.

[statrei]

An individual who makes the choice to turn their back on God and become an atheist is indeed lost.Why do we continue to insist on destroying the language? How can anyone be lost when they deliberate went in a particular direction and knew where they were going? If you change allegiances you are not lost. You have defected to the other side. It would be so much better if we stuck to what words mean instead of continuing this Babel condition.

[keyarch]

I just did a computer search for unforgivable in 5 versions of the bible in english, it didn't occur once. I'm starting to think there is no "unforgivable sin".Is this the passage that you were looking for?

Matt 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
KJV

[rosenherman]

Is this the passage that you were looking for?

Matt 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
KJV

Yes indeed, those are the exact verses I was thinking of. I was searching a computer bible and I didn't do a search for the right words. Thanks.

[rosenherman]

Why do we continue to insist on destroying the language? How can anyone be lost when they deliberate went in a particular direction and knew where they were going? If you change allegiances you are not lost. You have defected to the other side. It would be so much better if we stuck to what words mean instead of continuing this Babel condition.

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you explain it a little more fully?

[EnlightenedWitness]

:preach: I've studied on this quite a bit and believe that I have good understanding, based on what the Bible tells us. The first question we should ask is if you are truly saved or if you simply have the head-knowledge of HOW to be saved. There are many people in this world who will tell you that Jesus Christ is the son of God sent to earth to deliver us from our sins -- but they've never asked the Lord into their heart and accepted his payment!

If you are truly saved and have asked Jesus to come into your heart, you can not loose that salvation. The Bible tells us that once Jesus has "taken hold", he will not let us go.

The other thing to consider is that just because someone is saved doesn't necessarily mean they will be the poster-child for Christianity. Unless this person studies the Word of the Lord and applies it to his/her life, there may still be many sins in their lives. These sins will keep them from living up to the purpose of their life as God intended, and they will be judged more harshly when in front of the Lord - but it does not mean they will loose their salvation.

[rugerfann]

Hello, Anita! Welcome! Really? "But he who endures to the end will be saved" Matt24:13,

;)

Try to remember this was said before the cross,its way differant,than if it was said after the cross.

[statrei]

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you explain it a little more fully?Salvation has always been an act. When I save someone from a burning building that salvation is factual and complete regardless of what the person does afterwards. The person is not in a saved condition. Instead, the act of salvation returns the person to the condition he was in before he needed to be saved. A lack of understanding of what happened at Edan has led to this confusion and I don't think the religious pride is about to release its slaves easily.

[rugerfann]

Ok I cheated a little,I read the first 15 pages and then skiped to the end.:sorry:


My understanding is this.Jesus took away ALL sin at the cross(believers,unbelievers alike) except the sin of unbelief.John:16:8-9"And when he is come,he will convict the world of sin,and of righteousness,and of judgment:Of sin,becuase they believe not in me:".Therefore the only sin that remains is Unbelief in Christ jesus.This is a sin that has to repented of,not forgiven.Once you repented of your unbelief in Christ Jesus(changed ones mind about who christ jesus is)and you know him.How do you come to not know him?I dont think its posible personaly,it whould be like denieing I know my earthly mother.I could claim that I didn't know her,but it whould be a lie.Deap down I whould still know I know her.So its realy imposible to realy know someone then not know them later.Here are a few links that explain it a little better than i do,I think.:)

http://resources.christianity.com/realanswers/talkInfo.jhtml?id=34611&ServSessionIdroot=xl9vuovd61

http://resources.christianity.com/realanswers/talkInfo.jhtml?id=50087&ServSessionIdroot=o3vbsywje1

[sjpianoprincess]

I believe that once you are saved, you can backslide and lose your faith. You can't take being saved for granted. Always stay in the faith and continue to grow as a christian.

[rugerfann]

I believe that once you are saved, you can backslide and lose your faith. You can't take being saved for granted. Always stay in the faith and continue to grow as a christian.

How can you lose faith in someone you know?Can you lose faith in knowing you're mother?Once you know someone I don't see how you can unbelieve in them.Unless you never realy knew them.How can you get rid of someone thats living inside you?Can you walk away from you're own heart?

You can take being saved for granted,but why whould you want to?

[statrei]

I have been reflecting and it occurs to me that not once has the term "saved" been used in the way this thread has used it. Makes one wonder where Christians get their doctrines from.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I have been reflecting and it occurs to me that not once has the term "saved" been used in the way this thread has used it. Makes one wonder where Christians get their doctrines from.

I can certainly agree with that. Christians must not be going to the pillar and foundation of truth.

[keyarch]

I have been reflecting and it occurs to me that not once has the term "saved" been used in the way this thread has used it. Makes one wonder where Christians get their doctrines from.Well, you can look in the Bible or in a mirror to get your doctrine, but I prefer the Bible.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Well, you can look in the Bible or in a mirror to get your doctrine, but I prefer the Bible.

Is there much of a difference if one human is doing the interpreting?

[keyarch]

Is there much of a difference if one human is doing the interpreting?Yes, there is. A human is always going to make his own interpretation of information, but the source of that information is the issue.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yes, there is. A human is always going to make his own interpretation of information, but the source of that information is the issue.

Perect information handled incorrectly is usually worthless. Only properly handled can the Bible be used to it's full extent and purpose.

[statrei]

Well, you can look in the Bible or in a mirror to get your doctrine, but I prefer the Bible.If that was your idea of a joke it fell flat. You seem to have missed the usage of the word reflecting. I cannot reflect by looking in a mirror. Try again.

[statrei]

Yes, there is. A human is always going to make his own interpretation of information, but the source of that information is the issue.The Bible is a secondary source. The primary source is what flowed from the direct interaction between the God and the human. The Bible is a human interpretation of that revelation.

[ufigureitout]

You all need to be very clear that none of us are to interpret the bible. It clearly states that we are to rightly divide, not interpret. Interpretation is your opinion, your theology, your doctrine, very rarely is it the truth. The bible is not a human interpretation, but again says very clearly that every word was directed by the spirit. Do a little bit of study before you make a statement that is so obviously incorrect and inconsistent with what the word actually says.

[hernyaccent]

I think it's God's place to decide.

[Miss Spaulding]

I have been taught and personally believe that once you get saved, you will always be saved. There's no losing your salvation. It clearly says this in the Bible. And the Bible is nothing but Truth. Just because you're saved doesn't mean you can't backslide or sin...every Christian falls now and then, but God is right there to pick you back up and stand you on your feet again. All you have to do is ask God to forgive you for what you've done. But you don't lose your salvation. It doesn't work that way. If you lost your salvation every time you sinned/backslid...being a Christian would be an unimaginable amount of work. You'd get saved...lose it...get saved again...lose...get saved again...lose it...ect. That's ridiculous. The Bible states that you will not lose your salvation once you have asked Christ to be your Lord and Savior. I firmly believe this.

[Alice the Sister]

they call it "Fire Insurance" for a reason.

[MeekOne]

I have been taught and personally believe that once you get saved, you will always be saved. There's no losing your salvation. It clearly says this in the Bible. And the Bible is nothing but Truth. Just because you're saved doesn't mean you can't backslide or sin...every Christian falls now and then, but God is right there to pick you back up and stand you on your feet again. All you have to do is ask God to forgive you for what you've done. But you don't lose your salvation. It doesn't work that way. If you lost your salvation every time you sinned/backslid...being a Christian would be an unimaginable amount of work. You'd get saved...lose it...get saved again...lose...get saved again...lose it...ect. That's ridiculous. The Bible states that you will not lose your salvation once you have asked Christ to be your Lord and Savior. I firmly believe this.

Why, Ms. Spaulding, you couldn't be more right on the ball! :thumbsup:

[lisarn]

I believe once saved always saved.

[lisarn]

I too believe you can definately back slide though. I have been there to the point I questioned whether I had been saved in the first place but through it all, I learned that I need to be on my toes as a Christian and focus on Christ.

[rugerfann]

I too believe you can definately back slide though. I have been there to the point I questioned whether I had been saved in the first place but through it all, I learned that I need to be on my toes as a Christian and focus on Christ.

How does a son backslide?A son is a son forever.You're condition depends not on you,once you repented of your unbelief in jesus.

[rugerfann]

I have been taught and personally believe that once you get saved, you will always be saved. There's no losing your salvation. It clearly says this in the Bible. And the Bible is nothing but Truth. Just because you're saved doesn't mean you can't backslide or sin...every Christian falls now and then, but God is right there to pick you back up and stand you on your feet again. All you have to do is ask God to forgive you for what you've done. But you don't lose your salvation. It doesn't work that way. If you lost your salvation every time you sinned/backslid...being a Christian would be an unimaginable amount of work. You'd get saved...lose it...get saved again...lose...get saved again...lose it...ect. That's ridiculous. The Bible states that you will not lose your salvation once you have asked Christ to be your Lord and Savior. I firmly believe this.

You are correct,alot christians miss this point that there nothing you can do to lose salvation once you have truely been saved.

John 16:8-9 "And when he is come,he will reprove the world reprove the world of sin,and of righteousness,and of judgement:Of sin,becuase the believe not in me,"

This is the only sin that remains for man to repent of to be saved,once you done it there no turning back.You have become a son or daughter,sons and duaghter are forever.You cant lose sonship or duaghtership.

[lisarn]

I have always believed in Jesus but as a Christian I have failed him greatly at times in my life. But when we fail God lifts us up from the valley and restores us if we are willing to repent and ask forgiveness.

[lisarn]

I don't think backsliding is losing your salvation though.

[jennm]

1.) If you mess up, God's not going to just say "alright, that's it, you're gone now" (I don't know the exact location of the verse, but "where sin abounds, grace abounds much more")
Therefore, you cannot "lose" your salvation or "fall" away from grace.

2.) Jesus said "whoever denies me I will also deny before my Father in Heaven"
Therefore, you can deny God.

3.) God gives you free will, and will not take it away.

4.) Therefore, as part of free will you can tell God "that's it, I don't want You anymore"

However, I would not define that as "losing" your salvation or "falling" away from grace, as it is not something that happened as the result of an accidental case.

It would be better defined as "denying" your salvation (saying "God, I don't want it") or RUNNING away from grace (saying "let me outta here!").

[lisarn]

In Agreement Jenn

[rugerfann]

1.) If you mess up, God's not going to just say "alright, that's it, you're gone now" (I don't know the exact location of the verse, but "where sin abounds, grace abounds much more")
Therefore, you cannot "lose" your salvation or "fall" away from grace.

2.) Jesus said "whoever denies me I will also deny before my Father in Heaven"
Therefore, you can deny God.

3.) God gives you free will, and will not take it away.

4.) Therefore, as part of free will you can tell God "that's it, I don't want You anymore"

However, I would not define that as "losing" your salvation or "falling" away from grace, as it is not something that happened as the result of an accidental case.

It would be better defined as "denying" your salvation (saying "God, I don't want it") or RUNNING away from grace (saying "let me outta here!").

1.God isn't counting you're sins against you anymore,the sin of unbelief is his only concern

2.How can you denie you know him when you do?You can't,beucase it whould be a lie.

3.God does give you free will be you openly choose him,once you make that choose he says he has the power to keep you.

4.Why whould you, I known of 0 that have ever done that that known jesus.One can not know someone then not know them the next day it impossible.

Losing you're salvation whould mean that you never truely had salvation.Like I said a Son is a son forever no matter what he does.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

2.How can you denie you know him when you do?You can't,beucase it whould be a lie.

3.God does give you free will be you openly choose him,once you make that choose he says he has the power to keep you.

Losing you're salvation whould mean that you never truely had salvation.Like I said a Son is a son forever no matter what he does.

And a willful sin: rejection of forgiveness.

And when does He say He "has you"? At baptism? With the Holy Spirit? Scripture would be useful

Of course! No one is saved until judgement! It all makes complete sense.

[rugerfann]

And a willful sin: rejection of forgiveness.

And when does He say He "has you"? At baptism? With the Holy Spirit? Scripture would be useful

Of course! No one is saved until judgement! It all makes complete sense.

Man's problem isnt sin,its that he is spiritualy dead.What is the cuase of death?Consequence of sin is death as we all know.Christ at the cross took away all you're sins,this didn't save you.It did make it posible for you to have life though.

Romans 16:10 "For if,when we were enemies,we were reconciled to God by the death of his son,much more, being reconciled,we shall be saved by his life".

See you whernt saved through his death but through his life,His death only made it posible for you to have life.Becuase if he gave you life before he had taken away all you're sins,the next time you sinned you die again spiritualy.Here is a link that explains it well.

http://resources.christianity.com/realanswers/talkInfo.jhtml?id=47889&JServSessionIdroot=jz0ub79xz1

[die2live]

This is a difficult topic. I voted yes, unless you blaspheme the Holy Spirit. But I don't think that either blaspheming the Holy Spirit or accepting Christ is a one-time thing. I think they're both lifestyles. So blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the only sin which is unforgivable, all that means is that someone lived their life never accepting God. Likewise, accpeting God is a lifestyle as well. Or more accurately, a committment to a lifestyle, as it was with the thief on the cross who didn't exactly have time to change his lifestyle. Hebrew 6 speaks of those who "fall away" from the faith. I do find a compelling argument in Philippians 1:6, where it says he who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it. I'm not sure how that lines up with my theory. Thoughts?
I will mention one more thing. There is a passage in Ezekial I believe(sorry I don't have the exact chapter) that speaks of who will "get to GOd" so to speak. It says that evil men will not be accepted by God(I know that's not the right wording but I can't think of it) and that good men will. It continues to say that those who were evil but turn from it will be forgiven. Then it says that those who did good and turned from that will not be forgiven. (My wording is making this sound like a work-based religion, which Christianity is NOT. Sorry. Try to find the actual passage. I know it's there, but I don't have the time to look it up right now.)
I don't know. Thoughts?

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Man's problem isnt sin,its that he is spiritualy dead.What is the cuase of death?Consequence of sin is death as we all know.Christ at the cross took away all you're sins,this didn't save you.It did make it posible for you to have life though.

Romans 16:10 "For if,when we were enemies,we were reconciled to God by the death of his son,much more, being reconciled,we shall be saved by his life".

See you whernt saved through his death but through his life,His death only made it posible for you to have life.Becuase if he gave you life before he had taken away all you're sins,the next time you sinned you die again spiritualy.Here is a link that explains it well.

http://resources.christianity.com/realanswers/talkInfo.jhtml?id=47889&JServSessionIdroot=jz0ub79xz1

So it's ok to sin as long as we don't die?

Not the best link in the world. I suggest you ask your question in TAW. Very good answers there

[rugerfann]

So it's ok to sin as long as we don't die?

Not the best link in the world. I suggest you ask your question in TAW. Very good answers there

God isn't dealing with you on a bases on sin anymore.

[jbgordon]

I believe that once you are saved, you are always saved. I've never read or heard anything from the Bible that tells me otherwise.

[rugerfann]

2 corinthians "That GOD was reconciling THE WORLD to himself in Christ,Not counting men's sin's against them"

Either god lied here or he did what he said and is no longer counting you're sins against you.So it whould be imposible to lose,or give up you're salvation.

Here explains it a little better,its the second to last call

http://resources.christianity.com/realanswers/talkInfo.jhtml?id=34611&JServSessionIdroot=3w8iiegwe1

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

2 corinthians "That GOD was reconciling THE WORLD to himself in Christ,Not counting men's sin's against them"

Either god lied here or he did what he said and is no longer counting you're sins against you.So it whould be imposible to lose,or give up you're salvation.

You misinterpret 2 Corinthians

Revelation 20:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Looks like sins sure will count. Lets see another. Galatians 5:

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[rugerfann]

You misinterpret 2 Corinthians

Revelation 20:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Looks like sins sure will count. Lets see another. Galatians 5:

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Thats becuase there spiritualy dead still,people who are spiritualy dead do those things.They won't inherit the kingdom becuase they are spiritualy dead still.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Thats becuase there spiritualy dead still,people who are spiritualy dead do those things.They won't inherit the kingdom becuase they are spiritualy dead still.

So, then, how do we determine someone who is alive spiritually?

[myfriend]

What you will believe comes down to what you want to believe. If you want to believe that you can never lose your salvation, ask yourself why. If it is because you do not want to repent of something, that is not a good sign. If you accept that we can lose our relationship with God after being in a right relationship, this can bring about the desire to guard our hearts as we are warned in so many places. If we can't lose our salvation then why would we need to guard our hearts? The Word of God is the standard not our opinion. Read the bible and do as it says. For this is the way to understand it.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

What you will believe comes down to what you want to believe. If you want to believe that you can never lose your salvation, ask yourself why. If it is because you do not want to repent of something, that is not a good sign. If you accept that we can lose our relationship with God after being in a right relationship, this can bring about the desire to guard our hearts as we are warned in so many places. If we can't lose our salvation then why would we need to guard our hearts? The Word of God is the standard not our opinion. Read the bible and do as it says. For this is the way to understand it.

Very good point

[myfriend]

BI,
I love Winston's quote. My Latin is rather limited could you translate Julius' statement.

[rugerfann]

So, then, how do we determine someone who is alive spiritually?

It's hard to tell for sure,God knows.I think we can know as well if we judge by what the bible says.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

BI,
I love Winston's quote. My Latin is rather limited could you translate Julius' statement.

"Men believe what they want to"

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

It's hard to tell for sure,God knows.I think we can know as well if we judge by what the bible says.

Actually, we can't judge, as the Bible says.

Truth is, we won't know where we are going until Judgement Day. God has every right to refuse us into heaven. Every right in the universe. Only when it happens will we know.

[myfriend]

I believe it is important to try to help others to live by the bible when we have the opportunity. We should not judge others if our purpose is just to feel better about ourselves while we look down on others, we should if it is to help them.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I believe it is important to try to help others to live by the bible when we have the opportunity. We should not judge others if our purpose is just to feel better about ourselves while we look down on others, we should if it is to help them.

We should help others, yes. But there is no room for judging. God is our standard, no one else.

[chaplainjared]

i believe you can loose your salvation....basically we are all sinners and have to repent from our sins and ask for forgivness. obvisouly God forgives, however if the only time in your life you ask for forgivness is when your 18 yrs old, and you live till your 68 then you have 50 yrs worth of sin unaccounted for....and what could you do in that time? murder, steal, adultery?? ALL THE SINS!
I think 'once saved always saved' is permission to live our lives however we like from the moment of repentance onwards. surely this cannot be so. What if i join a terrorist group and killed many innocent people in 2 years from now and went on doing it till the day i die? surely i wouldnt be pleasing to God, nor would i probably have any idea of who he is anymore!
Yes i know this is an extreme case, but the bible says that one sin is equal to another. no sin is worse than another. Murder is just as much a sin as stealing or blasphemy...or lying...

[rugerfann]

2 corithians 5:19 "That God reconciling The World to himself in Christ/Not counting men's sin's against them"

Either this is true or god lied,you decide.I choose to believe this is true!

A son is son forever!:amen: :clap: :amen:

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

2 corithians 5:19 "That God reconciling The World to himself in Christ/Not counting men's sin's against them"

Either this is true or god lied,you decide.I choose to believe this is true!

A son is son forever!:amen: :clap: :amen:

It's true, just not in they way you are interpretting it, which is contradicting other scriptures, some of which I posted.

[rugerfann]

It's true, just not in they way you are interpretting it, which is contradicting other scriptures, some of which I posted.

There no interpetation it means what it says.:amen:

Salvation isn't geting you're sins forgiven,this is a common mistake made by many christians.If salvation is geting you're sins forgiven then all whould be saved.

Geting the life of christ in you is salvation.This is why it imposible to lose it.Only thing that bring spiritual death is sin,and since Christ took away all you're sins at the cross its imposible to spiritualy die again.:amen: :thumbsup: :cool:

[myfriend]

Rugerfann,
If you take more time to correct your grammer, your posts will appear to be more credible. Of course content is more important.
Is there a reason you prefer once saved always saved (osas) doctrine? Since there appears to be scriptures that support both sides.
I would prefer osas doctrine because I am by nature lazy and do not want to maintain a relationship with God in my sinful nature. I do know that it takes effort and that if I give up that effort I will in fact be leaving or losing my relationship with God.
What do you think salvation means?

[rugerfann]

Rugerfann,
If you take more time to correct your grammer, your posts will appear to be more credible. Of course content is more important.
Is there a reason you prefer once saved always saved (osas) doctrine? Since there appears to be scriptures that support both sides.
I would prefer osas doctrine because I am by nature lazy and do not want to maintain a relationship with God in my sinful nature. I do know that it takes effort and that if I give up that effort I will in fact be leaving or losing my relationship with God.
What do you think salvation means?

Salvation is becomeing spiritualy alive rather than spiritualy dead as we where born.For one to die again after having recieved life,you have to pay the price for sin again.This isn't posible becuase jesus took away all you're sins.You can only believe you can lose you're salvation if you believe jesus didnt take away all you're sins.If jesus didn't take away All you're sins he whould have to come back and die again,otherwise you keep recieving life and then die again next time you sinned,which is everyday.

[MeekOne]

:preach: For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

[Dale Martin]

I firmly believe that once (truly) saved always saved. What do I mean by truly saved?

I will use my self as example, at one time in my life at a young age being raised in a very legalistic church I thought it was time to "get saved & get baptized" I did so out of fear, and wanting to please my parents and others among other not so great reasons. I did desire Christ to some extent but I never had a real relationship with Jesus. I went to church, called myself a Christian for the next 35 years but I always knew something wasn't right.

Eventually God used a potentially terminal disease, and then five years later a brain tumor requiring a very risky surgery, severe depression, and chronic pain. Finally, because of all this I was confronted with the truth about Christ all over again. Especially His love, mercy, and grace to me. I don't know if I was saved at 12 when I was first baptized. Maybe that is why I never fully fell away. You could also argue that I never fully came to Christ because I wasn't really saved. I do know that I am saved now. I also know from experience that it is possible to act saved all your life having never given your whole heart to Christ. A person with a said faith could fall away. I also know now that I could not. I don't just believe, I know. . . I know with out doubt that the scriptures are absolutely the truth of God. I also believe that blasphemy of the Holy Sprit is referring to a person who denies Jesus Christ to his death, henceforth the unforgivable sin. Unforgivable because you can not accept Christ nor repent nor anything after you are dead. . . . Hope this makes sense and/or helps.

In Christ,
Dale

[Dale Martin]

CHAPLINJARED

Please reconsider this,

"i believe you can loose your salvation....basically we are all sinners and have to repent from our sins and ask for forgivness. obvisouly God forgives, however if the only time in your life you ask for forgivness is when your 18 yrs old, and you live till your 68 then you have 50 yrs worth of sin unaccounted for....and what could you do in that time? murder, steal, adultery?? ALL THE SINS!
I think 'once saved always saved' is permission to live our lives however we like from the moment of repentance onwards. surely this cannot be so. What if i join a terrorist group and killed many innocent people in 2 years from now and went on doing it till the day i die? surely i wouldnt be pleasing to God, nor would i probably have any idea of who he is anymore!
Yes i know this is an extreme case, but the bible says that one sin is equal to another. no sin is worse than another. Murder is just as much a sin as stealing or blasphemy...or lying..."

If someone truly has Christ in them and they are in Christ then they could not do the things that you discribed. . . Being a Christian is more that just saying so, it is being indwelt with Christ. If you are one with Christ you don't go for 20 or 30 years ignoring him and willfully sinning. What you discribe is a "said faith" and does not apply to a "saved" person. . .

[rugerfann]

I firmly believe that once (truly) saved always saved. What do I mean by truly saved?

I will use my self as example, at one time in my life at a young age being raised in a very legalistic church I thought it was time to "get saved & get baptized" I did so out of fear, and wanting to please my parents and others among other not so great reasons. I did desire Christ to some extent but I never had a real relationship with Jesus. I went to church, called myself a Christian for the next 35 years but I always knew something wasn't right.

Eventually God used a potentially terminal disease, and then five years later a brain tumor requiring a very risky surgery, severe depression, and chronic pain. Finally, because of all this I was confronted with the truth about Christ all over again. Especially His love, mercy, and grace to me. I don't know if I was saved at 12 when I was first baptized. Maybe that is why I never fully fell away. You could also argue that I never fully came to Christ because I wasn't really saved. I do know that I am saved now. I also know from experience that it is possible to act saved all your life having never given your whole heart to Christ. A person with a said faith could fall away. I also know now that I could not. I don't just believe, I know. . . I know with out doubt that the scriptures are absolutely the truth of God. I also believe that blasphemy of the Holy Sprit is referring to a person who denies Jesus Christ to his death, henceforth the unforgivable sin. Unforgivable because you can not accept Christ nor repent nor anything after you are dead. . . . Hope this makes sense and/or helps.

In Christ,
Dale

amen!:amen:

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

There no interpetation it means what it says.:amen:

Salvation isn't geting you're sins forgiven,this is a common mistake made by many christians.If salvation is geting you're sins forgiven then all whould be saved.

Geting the life of christ in you is salvation.This is why it imposible to lose it.Only thing that bring spiritual death is sin,and since Christ took away all you're sins at the cross its imposible to spiritualy die again.:amen: :thumbsup: :cool:

Actually, there is interpretation. You see, you forget to include the surrounding scriptures, which allow it to be interpreted correctly. Taken in proper context, it is talking only about those who truly are made new in Christ, referring to Christians as ambassadors [to the world].

Yes, this must be a common misconception among Christians. Jesus was apparently confused too when He said “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

You have it backwards. Sin brings spritual death. But if death is taken away, we are not free to sin. As we see with Christ's sacrifice, we should not sin so that grace may increase.

[rugerfann]

Actually, there is interpretation. You see, you forget to include the surrounding scriptures, which allow it to be interpreted correctly. Taken in proper context, it is talking only about those who truly are made new in Christ, referring to Christians as ambassadors [to the world].

World means the whole world not just believers!Christ died for everyone's sins not just some.

Yes, this must be a common misconception among Christians. Jesus was apparently confused too when He said “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

You have it backwards. Sin brings spritual death. But if death is taken away, we are not free to sin. As we see with Christ's sacrifice, we should not sin so that grace may increase.

Of course sin brings spiritual death,I never stated it didn't.but did.

It's not about being free to sin,no one thinks such things.Its about life,he had to take away all sin to prevent you from dieing again,its the ONLY way it was posible to keep you spiritual alive.Any other way whouldnt have worked.:hug:

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

World means the whole world not just believers!Christ died for everyone's sins not just some.



Of course sin brings spiritual death,I never stated it didn't.but did.

It's not about being free to sin,no one thinks such things.Its about life,he had to take away all sin to prevent you from dieing again,its the ONLY way it was posible to keep you spiritual alive.Any other way whouldnt have worked.:hug:

Yes, world means whole world. But Paul didn't say thw whole world was clothed with Christ. Those that are are ambassodors to the whole world. That's what he said.

Yes, He had to take away all of our sins.

[rugerfann]

Yes, world means whole world. But Paul didn't say thw whole world was clothed with Christ. Those that are are ambassodors to the whole world. That's what he said.

As I said before geting you're sins forgiven doesn't save you or cloth you in christ in anyway shape or form.Geting his LIFE in you does.

Yes, He had to take away all of our sins.

agreement!:thumbsup: :amen:

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

As I said before geting you're sins forgiven doesn't save you or cloth you in christ in anyway shape or form.Geting his LIFE in you does.

That is because we are declared saved or lost at judgement. See Rev 20.

[myfriend]

BI, are you really only 16? I'm impressed with your bible knowledge.
When we meet God is the ultimate pass or fail. Though I do believe when we repent and are baptized we are saved or in a safe relationship with God.
I don't think Ruger actually thinks that the whole world is saved, you would have to deny the whole bible to believe that.
Ruger, the bible states that we gain salvation and forgiveness of our past sins at the point of baptism. As long as we remain in that relationship our sins are forgiven.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

When we meet God is the ultimate pass or fail. Though I do believe when we repent and are baptized we are saved or in a safe relationship with God.

Something like that yes. Salvation is in the past, working in our lives now, and we await it in the future as well. One of those Holy Mysteries.

[LondonsBurning]

Something like that yes. Salvation is in the past, working in our lives now, and we await it in the future as well. One of those Holy Mysteries.

In other words, we have been justified, we are being sanctified...we will be glorified.;)

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

In other words, we have been justified, we are being sanctified...we will be glorified.;)

Yes :)

[myfriend]

London, do you follow all five of Calvins' teachings or just some of them?

[theywhosowintears]

Th bible says that is we recommit sins we ahve been saved from we put Christ to shame.

The bible says if we deny Christ before men He will deny us before His Father

I was saved a long time ago and have backslidden before... God still loves you let me tell you that but I didnt know I was going to heaven. If you don't know 100% you are standing on dangerous ground!!! I have know days when I would have gone to hell if i died... for example when I chose to seek comfort in the arms of a woman instead of running to God I knew that if I died I would not be able to go to heaven...

Where sin abound there Grace abounds but also God is Just and where God is sin cannot be

[rugerfann]

BI, are you really only 16? I'm impressed with your bible knowledge.
When we meet God is the ultimate pass or fail. Though I do believe when we repent and are baptized we are saved or in a safe relationship with God.
I don't think Ruger actually thinks that the whole world is saved, you would have to deny the whole bible to believe that.
Ruger, the bible states that we gain salvation and forgiveness of our past sins at the point of baptism. As long as we remain in that relationship our sins are forgiven.

You are correct I don't believe that.Geting SINS FORGIVEN DOESN"T SAVE YOU.You are saved by the life of chrsit not by his death.Though I do believe Jesus Took away everyones sins,unbelievers and believers alike at the cross,again this doesn't save you.

[rugerfann]

Th bible says that is we recommit sins we ahve been saved from we put Christ to shame.

The bible says if we deny Christ before men He will deny us before His Father

I was saved a long time ago and have backslidden before... God still loves you let me tell you that but I didnt know I was going to heaven. If you don't know 100% you are standing on dangerous ground!!! I have know days when I would have gone to hell if i died... for example when I chose to seek comfort in the arms of a woman instead of running to God I knew that if I died I would not be able to go to heaven...

Where sin abound there Grace abounds but also God is Just and where God is sin cannot be

God isn't judging you on the basses of sin anymore.His only concern is if you have unbelief in Christ Jesus.Once repented of this unbelief,theres no turning back.You have passed from being spiritualy dead to spiritual alive.It whould only be possible to die again spiritualy if Christ didnt take away all your sins.If Christ didn't take away ALL your sin you are doomed,I garantee you will sin again before you die.Christ Jesus isn't going to die again for sins,"He said IT IS FINISHED",meaning he took away all sin or His Life in you whouldnt be posible.Whats the purpose of giving you eternal life just to die again next time you sinned.Consequence of sin is spiritual death.I hope this helps.:amen:

[pcwilkins]

God isn't judging you on the basses of sin anymore.His only concern is if you have unbelief in Christ Jesus.Once repented of this unbelief,theres no turning back.You have passed from being spiritualy dead to spiritual alive.It whould only be possible to die again spiritualy if Christ didnt take away all your sins.If Christ didn't take away ALL your sin you are doomed,I garantee you will sin again before you die.Christ Jesus isn't going to die again for sins,"He said IT IS FINISHED",meaning he took away all sin or His Life in you whouldnt be posible.Whats the purpose of giving you eternal life just to die again next time you sinned.Consequence of sin is spiritual death.I hope this helps.:amen:

I agree. If Christ died for your sins, there can be no way that God can punish you for them:

"God cannot payment twice demand
Once at my bleeding surety's hand
And then again at mine."

Of course there will be struggles - "In the world" God's people "shall have tribulation", but God can never give someone the gift of being born again and then retract it. It is not given to us based on what we do, and it can never be taken from us based on what we do.

The normal proviso should be inserted, that this will not encourage true believers to sin - Christians love God because He FIRST loved them, and that love in them will not permit them to sin lightly.

Pete

[OddBeani]

Eternal Security is wrong.





Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. (Ezek 3:20) But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24) If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26) If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13) If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:18)

[rosenherman]

Eternal Security is wrong.


Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. (Ezek 3:20)
But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24) If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26) If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13) If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:18)




OT is only half the story

[Dale Martin]

RE: "Eternal Security is wrong"

Is it? None of these examples reflect on someone that has trusted Christ because all of the scripture that you listed predates Christ by hundreds of years. There is a difference in pre Christ covenants and Post Christ covenants.

[MeekOne]

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

[rugerfann]

RE: "Eternal Security is wrong"

Is it? None of these examples reflect on someone that has trusted Christ because all of the scripture that you listed predates Christ by hundreds of years. There is a difference in pre Christ covenants and Post Christ covenants.



Correctamundo.You cant compare before the cross statement's and after they where living under the LAW,we live under grace.:hug:

[pcwilkins]

RE: "Eternal Security is wrong"

Is it? None of these examples reflect on someone that has trusted Christ because all of the scripture that you listed predates Christ by hundreds of years. There is a difference in pre Christ covenants and Post Christ covenants.



Although I agree, I think we should remember than the old testament symbols are all typical of Christ. The difference comes because the sacrifices offered then were for past sins. Thus if a man sinned again and did not offer the correct sacrifice, there was no forgiveness. Under the new testament, Christ died for all the sins of His people, therefore, "It is finished".

Also we must recall that those who died before Christ were not saved by anything other than faith in Christ. "It is impossible that the blood of bulls and of goats can take away sin". The purpose of those sacrifices, I think, was to point to Christ.

Pete

[statrei]

RE: "Eternal Security is wrong"

Is it? None of these examples reflect on someone that has trusted Christ because all of the scripture that you listed predates Christ by hundreds of years. There is a difference in pre Christ covenants and Post Christ covenants.

Maybe you ought to consider the purpowe of covenants. Lost people do not make covenants with their rescuers. Kidnappers do not make covenants with their rescuers. Covenants are made between two free parties to provide assurance for one who may have doubts about his condition. The covenant tells you, no matter what anyone does "I have your back." The covenant has never been a means of salvation. It is like a treaty that provides protection in case of future adversity.

[Truth Be Told]

No, I do not belive that. I believe that you can do things that can cause you to lose your salvation as it speaks of in the bible(dont know where but Ive read it).

[rugerfann]

No, I do not belive that. I believe that you can do things that can cause you to lose your salvation as it speaks of in the bible(dont know where but Ive read it).

You're salvation isn't dependant on you,that whould be works.:amen:

[Storygirl394]

Well, I believe that once you are saved you'll always be saved.
Can't God keep His own?
I know some people are bound to feel differently about it - I don't really think it's worth arguing about... The important thing to me is if (or if not) I am saved! ;)

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

You're salvation isn't dependant on you,that whould be works.:amen:

No, that would just be free choice.

[statrei]

No, that would just be free choice.Rescue operations go on around us everyday. I am amazed that so many of these give the impression that no one knows what happens when people are rescued or saved. Why do we that when God says it is a rescue mission that it really is a recruitment? Are we so enamoured of our own opinions that we dare call the Creator of the Universe a liar. It's a rescue mission. Repeat that three times. Stop treating it as if it were a recruitment effort.

[LCPGUY]

I voted yes as I believe that when God has us, He doesn’t let us go.

John Buoy

[rugerfann]

Rescue operations go on around us everyday. I am amazed that so many of these give the impression that no one knows what happens when people are rescued or saved. Why do we that when God says it is a rescue mission that it really is a recruitment? Are we so enamoured of our own opinions that we dare call the Creator of the Universe a liar. It's a rescue mission. Repeat that three times. Stop treating it as if it were a recruitment effort.

Good point brother.Once you surendered to Christ Jesus,you have given up you free will on that matter.Some will say you can walk away,but you will find Chrsit jesus walking right along with you.:amen:

[holyrokker]

I don't buy into the OSAS stuff.

Here's a good article to read and ponder.
http://www.biblical-theology.com/security/eternal.htm

[freyajem]

If I'm drowing and the lifeguard rescues me, why would I want to be continued to be saved?

(edited for content)Blackwing

You might go out and start to drown again. I'm sure you would be glad to be saved again. Or as you walk away from the beach, a car might be headed straight for you. You might want to be saved, etc. etc.

With God, to be saved does not mean saved forever regardless of what you do. If I am saved and then go kill somebody, surely I need to go back and refresh my salvation and stay there.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Rescue operations go on around us everyday. I am amazed that so many of these give the impression that no one knows what happens when people are rescued or saved. Why do we that when God says it is a rescue mission that it really is a recruitment? Are we so enamoured of our own opinions that we dare call the Creator of the Universe a liar. It's a rescue mission. Repeat that three times. Stop treating it as if it were a recruitment effort.

What does that have to do with my post?

[rugerfann]

You might go out and start to drown again. I'm sure you would be glad to be saved again. Or as you walk away from the beach, a car might be headed straight for you. You might want to be saved, etc. etc.

With God, to be saved does not mean saved forever regardless of what you do. If I am saved and then go kill somebody, surely I need to go back and refresh my salvation and stay there.

God isn't dealing with a Christian on the baises of sin anymore or you lose your salvation every time you sinned!Which if you are truthfull is every day of you're life .

[freyajem]

God isn't dealing with a Christian on the baises of sin anymore or you lose your salvation every time you sinned!Which if you are truthfull is every day of you're life .

Sure we sin every day of our life but not earth shaking go to hell sins. I only ever commit one earthshaking go to hell sin in my life and I asked forgiveness for that and never did it again. And even that was questionable as an earth shaking go to hell sin. They are pretty hard to commit.

[rugerfann]

Sure we sin every day of our life but not earth shaking go to hell sins. I only ever commit one earthshaking go to hell sin in my life and I asked forgiveness for that and never did it again. And even that was questionable as an earth shaking go to hell sin. They are pretty hard to commit.

The Penalty for sin,any sin is the same (spiritual death).Either jesus forgave ALL you're sins or he forgave none.If he forgave less than ALL than you are spiritual dead right now without hope of salvation!Choose what you want to believe.:amen:

[freyajem]

WOW we must be all dead

[sothankful]

I thought the only ones that can lose salvation are the mormons?

[rugerfann]

WOW we must be all dead

If Jesus didn't take away all you're sins you are correct!Bible is very clear,penalty of any sin is Death.So one can't be spiritualy alive unless he took them all becuase you die again everytime you sinned which is every day,if not ever minute.

If he took them all,like I know he did.It isn't posible to die again,becuase every sin you will do has been paid for and taken away.This is the only way god chould give Life,is to take away the reason for spiritual death,once and for all.:amen:

[Whitegravity]

I was supposedly saved when I was baptized under the catholic church. But I'm living proof of a person "straying" away. Since I don't believe in Christianity, I am therefor not saved. But that doesn't make me a bad person, just a different one.

BB
~white

[Dale Martin]

I was supposedly saved when I was baptized under the catholic church. But I'm living proof of a person "straying" away. Since I don't believe in Christianity, I am therefor not saved. But that doesn't make me a bad person, just a different one.

BB
~white

White,


I do not know what kind of person your are. I do know that you are not a good man. God himself says "none are good". as for straying away you may be right in that you are not saved and you do not see God because God hides himself from you. Finally, it all depends on what your definition of is, is. . . (definition of bad is) Arguably by Gods standards you have sinned every day so does that make you bad? None of us are sinless we just have Christ as our advocate/redeemer. . .



Dale

[rosenherman]

I was supposedly saved when I was baptized under the catholic church. But I'm living proof of a person "straying" away. Since I don't believe in Christianity, I am therefor not saved. But that doesn't make me a bad person, just a different one.

BB
~white

Christianity is not something to believe in. It is a framework to describe what we believe in.

[treasurewords]

I had a whole post full of junk that I've deleted. I noticed the error of my post and decided to just can it.

All I know is this.
Stay close to Him, no matter what.
When the Lord calls you, whether it's your time to die, or whether it's the end of this age, make sure you are "in Christ".

Consider the time of the Ark.
Anyone could have wandered around the Ark or even stayed near Noah, but if they weren't in the Ark when God shut the door, too bad.

And I believe that "shutting of the door" applies both to beign called to die, and the final trumpet sounding.

[rugerfann]

I had a whole post full of junk that I've deleted. I noticed the error of my post and decided to just can it.

All I know is this.
Stay close to Him, no matter what.
When the Lord calls you, whether it's your time to die, or whether it's the end of this age, make sure you are "in Christ".

Consider the time of the Ark.
Anyone could have wandered around the Ark or even stayed near Noah, but if they weren't in the Ark when God shut the door, too bad.

And I believe that "shutting of the door" applies both to beign called to die, and the final trumpet sounding.

Yep and the new ark is jesus,once you're in you're in!

[Raheelah]

i voted don't know, only God knows. i was going to vote for you can lose your salvation through backsliding, but i would not want to be the judge, because if we judge others then we will be judged accordingly and i do not want that. :) ;) :D :cool: :P :wave: :thumbsup: :amen: :clap: :hug: :preach: :prayer: :groupray: :bow: :angel:

[trident343]

I was supposedly saved when I was baptized under the catholic church. But I'm living proof of a person "straying" away. Since I don't believe in Christianity, I am therefor not saved. But that doesn't make me a bad person, just a different one.

BB
~white

I think the issue here is whether you were ever saved in the first place. Thats the question anybody questioning their salvation needs to ask themselves.

I know the moment I converted, I was saved. Have I sinned since then? Yes. But I think God looks at me differently when I sin as well as all other saved believers.
When I sin, I know I am going against God and everything pure and righteous. And by knowing that, it hurts me greatly when I sin. As it should anybody who fulfills the Greatest Commandment( Love the Lord our God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength).
If for instance you have a child, or a spouse whom you love with all your heart, would it not hurt you to know your actions are causing them pain? It is as sin is toward God.
Being saved then, I could use my salvation as a sin license, But it would be impossible for me to do so because it strikes me so hard deep down inside.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yep and the new ark is jesus,once you're in you're in!

The new ark is Mary, the Theotokos

[rugerfann]

The new ark is Mary, the Theotokos

Nope.mary has saved 0 so far!

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Nope.mary has saved 0 so far!

Did the Ark save any? Why must Mary?

[JeffreyLloyd]

The ark of the Old Covenant was made of the purest gold for God's Word. Mary is the ark of the New Covenant and is the purest vessel for the Word of God made flesh. (Exodus 25:11-21)

For God to dwell within Mary the Ark, Mary had to be conceived without sin. For some to argue otherwise would be to say that God would let the finger of Satan touch His Son made flesh. This is incomprehensible. (1 Chron. 13:9-10).

Just as King David leap for joy before Ark in 2 Sam. 6:16 so does Saint John the Baptist leap at just the sound of Mary's voice in Luke 1:41 - So should we leap for joy before Mary the immaculate Ark of the Word made flesh.
Now look at Rev 11:19; at this point in history, the Ark of the Old Covenant was not seen for six centuries, and now it is finally seen in heaven. The Jewish people would have been absolutely amazed at this. However, John immediately passes over this fact and describes the "woman" clothed with the sun in Rev. 12:1. John is emphasizing that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant and who, like the Old ark, is now worthy of veneration and praise. Also remember that Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1 are tied together because there was no chapter and verse at the time these texts were written.

Rev 12:1 - the "woman" that John is describing is Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, so Mary, with the moon under her feet, reflects the glory of the Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ.

Rev. 12:17 - this verse tells us that Mary's offspring are those who keep God's commandments and bear testimony to Jesus. This demonstrates, as Catholics have always believed, that Mary is the Mother of all Christians.

Rev. 12:2 - Some Protestants argue that, because the woman had birth pangs, she was a woman with sin. However, Revelation is apocalyptic literature unique to the 1st century. It contains varied symbolism and multiple meanings of the woman (Mary, the Church and Israel). The birth pangs describe both the birth of the Church and Mary's offspring being formed in Christ. Mary had no birth pangs in delivering her only Son Jesus.

The Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Mary the Ark of the New Covenant is even more immaculate and undefiled, spared by God from original sin so that she could bear His eternal Word in her womb (2 Sam. 6:7) .

[rugerfann]

Did the Ark save any? Why must Mary?

Yep it saved noah and his family from the flood.It's simbolic of saving us from gods wrath.

Jesus is the new ark!

[JeffreyLloyd]

Mary carried in her Jesus, who is our salvation.

As the Ark of the Covenat carried in it's the Word of God in stone (10 commandments) Mary carried the Word made Flesh, Jesus

[freyajem]

If Jesus didn't take away all you're sins you are correct!Bible is very clear,penalty of any sin is Death.So one can't be spiritualy alive unless he took them all becuase you die again everytime you sinned which is every day,if not ever minute.

If he took them all,like I know he did.It isn't posible to die again,becuase every sin you will do has been paid for and taken away.This is the only way god chould give Life,is to take away the reason for spiritual death,once and for all.:amen:

He took them all when He died on the cross.

[MeekOne]

He took them all when He died on the cross.

As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

[Yawehdog137]

Who knows except the Lord?

[rugerfann]

Mary carried in her Jesus, who is our salvation.

As the Ark of the Covenat carried in it's the Word of God in stone (10 commandments) Mary carried the Word made Flesh, Jesus

I don't think it makes any differance what woman caried jesuses body.There where million of women God chould choose.

The new ark is Christ Jesus ,he is the only one that can save you.Mary doesnt fit becuase she can't save you!

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Yep it saved noah and his family from the flood.It's simbolic of saving us from gods wrath.

Jesus is the new ark!

Oh, Noah's Ark vs Ark of the Covenant. Nonetheless, the Church would be the new "Noah's Ark", as it is our means of salvation through Jesus.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I don't think it makes any differance what woman caried jesuses body.There where million of women God chould choose.

And yet He chose Mary.

[JeffreyLloyd]

God isn't stupid. He didn't just play "ink a bink, a bottle of ink."

Mary was special. So was Joseph.

It was all part of God's plan.

[brinny]

yes

[HolyPlace]

God knows wat every thing and every one is doing at every moment of the day. And i think he knows wat he is doing when he does everything..and it all is in his plan.

[kellyp1967]

Oh my gosh, what a huge thread! I attempted to start reading the responses but gave up because there are so many and so many opinions! And so many of them are so logical, I'm confused.:confused: I polled "not sure". I wish I were, but there are so many different verses to get contradicting conclusions from...At first, I thought, yeah, OSAS, because he wouldn't throw out his children, much like I wouldn't throw out my children if they messed up. We will be sinners until the end, I feel because we are flesh. I just don't know... Bless you all.:thumbsup:

[HolyPlace]

I also belive onced saved always saved....because God forgives of every sin if ask for ...and if not ask for then you still are a child of God if you have ask him into your heart. If i told my parents i didn't want to be there child i would never truly not be there child, i would always be there child...there for I and anyone who is a child of God will always be ..a sin is a sin, one is as great as another.

[OddBeani]

Yes, except you are comparing Christ with our earthly families and even God tells us that in days to come it will be son vs father and daughter vs mother so that concept is wrong. I know what you are trying to say but it is incorrect. The logic that just because you were once saved you will always be saved is very irrational because you cannot propose that because you were once a son or daughter you will always be, it is as if saying "I said the prayer and meant it once but now I can kill whomever I wish, engage in fornication and adultry and cheat on tests..." It doesnt pan out. Everyday you have to choose to pick up your cross, it is not tied to you.

[HolyPlace]

But if you don't pick up your cross one day and go off the deep end...later you can relies wat you have done and Ask for forgivness. And he will forgive you.

[kellyp1967]

Wow, how true, but I didn't mean it in such an extreme scenario. I really can't imagine a true, spirit-filled, God fearing Christian ever doing those type of things because it goes against the spirit residing in us...BUT I have ALOT to learn about such things, so I am not insulted at new information and opinions.:) However, I have seen some so-called Christians take part in some of these things--and personally, I don't believe they are what they say they are. I mean, nobody is perfect, but we have a conscience and the Holy Spirit to guide us in our decision making. If we do wrong, normally, I would think the guilt we feel would cause us to repent. I don't know...just rambling...I know I've sinned since being saved and I have repented and truly know I will go to heaven when it's my time. Some Christians I talk to act like they never sin, crazy...

[HolyPlace]

Some Christians I talk to act like they never sin, crazy...
How true are you in these words....Romans 3:23 For all have sinned : all fall short of God's glorious standards.

[Waylon]

So far I have only read pages 1 & 2 and am getting extremely nervous. About four years ago I started to suffer from severe depression and blamed it on God. I found that only worldly things like smoking, drinking and sex made me happy and I slipped farther away from God. I always considered myself on the fence though hoping some day I would be able to come back, after realizing what a foolish mistake I had made. Recently, through what I believe are Godly events, it seems as though I am being called back. I never lost my faith, just lost my way I guess.

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

But if you don't pick up your cross one day and go off the deep end...later you can relies wat you have done and Ask for forgivness. And he will forgive you.

That is repentance though. If one does not repent, any confession, any mere words, are nothing.

[brinny]

When you are His child, and you have erred, even if you do despicable things such as David did, your heart will long to run 'home' to Abba...just as David did, and the prodigal. We 'miss' Him when we wander off. God already knows our weaknesses. His grace covers us because we are but dust, and fallible creatures. We are weak. Sometimes the only thing we need do is run to Him and climb in His lap and just rest our weary head. Even before we have the thought to turn back to Him He's running toward us.....

This, our Abba, Who rejoices over us with singing, is full of tender mercies and grace. It is He that plants the desire to know Him into us, in the first place.

He tells us that no one can snatch us out of the palm of His hand.

[Storygirl394]

When you are His child, and you have erred, even if you do despicable things such as David did, your heart will long to run 'home' to Abba...just as David did, and the prodigal.
He tells us that no one can snatch us out of the palm of His hand.

:amen: :amen: :amen:

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

When you are His child, and you have erred, even if you do despicable things such as David did, your heart will long to run 'home' to Abba...just as David did, and the prodigal.

Sounds a bit idealistic. Satan, Judas, even many kings of Israel, while they once were powerful followers of Christ who served God selflessly, fell and didn't seek repentance or reconcile.

[rugerfann]

Yes, except you are comparing Christ with our earthly families and even God tells us that in days to come it will be son vs father and daughter vs mother so that concept is wrong. I know what you are trying to say but it is incorrect. The logic that just because you were once saved you will always be saved is very irrational because you cannot propose that because you were once a son or daughter you will always be, it is as if saying "I said the prayer and meant it once but now I can kill whomever I wish, engage in fornication and adultry and cheat on tests..." It doesnt pan out. Everyday you have to choose to pick up your cross, it is not tied to you.

I understand your point,but here is why she is correct still.


Your premise of what salvation is off,Salvation isn't geting you sins forgiven.Salvation is having Christ Jesus life in you.Once you have believed in Chrsist Jesus and invited him to live in side of you,you are spiritualy alive.Before this you where spiritualy dead.Whats death?Absence of life.What causes spiritual death?Sin.What did Chrsit Jesus take away at the cross?The whole worlds sin.If Christ Jesus took away and paid for All your sin,Is it posible to spiritualy die again?No.It's imposible to spiritual die again,when Christ jesus took away all your sin.

The only way one can believe that you can lose your salvation is,that you believe that Christ Jesus didn't take away all your sin at the cross.Lets take a minute and assume this is true,which it is not.Christ took some of you sin away at the cross,he gives you his life,you accept it.You sin again,you spiritual die again,you go to confession or confess you sin and are forgiven,you accept his life again.You sin again and die again spiritualy,you get forgiven,accept his life again,you sin again and die again.As you can see this is a never ending procces of dieing spiritualy.It does no good to give you Life if all sin wasn't paid for at the cross.If we are truthfull,we can admit we sin every day of our life.There isn't a day that goes by that I don't mess up somehow.

[treasurewords]

What does it mean to "be saved"?
Jesus Christ makes it clear that there are people who will be expecting to receive eternal life at the end of all things, but will be told by Jesus Himself that He "Never knew" them.
That's precisely what I was afraid to get from the parables when I was claiming that an EXPERIENCE I had at the altar was what would get me to heaven.
I think that a lot of people (because I see my fruit in their lives -- that is, outright worldliness under the assumption that a trip to the altar, even a sincere one, will get them entry into Heaven) are going to look at God with a blank face when He asks them "Why should I let you into my Kingdom?" because "I went to the altar and sincerely prayed from my heart" isn't going to cut it and they're going to stand before Him with the knowledge that this is precisely what they were trusting in... and not Christ.
I think people are afraid of the STRAIGHT path that leads to the ONE DOOR.
That is putting off this world completely by separating oneself.
When you separate yourself you don't have to worry about sinning because through abstinence you place the BURDEN THAT SIN PLACES ON YOU on Christ.
"Christ, I'm trusting that You can give me something better than this sin can, therefore I'm going to NOT WILLFULLY ENGAGE IN IT."
And this is what it means to BE FREE. SIN creates a NEED within us that causes us to SIN. Why do crackheads smoke crack? Because they need to! But what happens if they don't smoke crack after some set period of time? They don't want to smoke crack anymore! Amazing, isn't it?
I seriously doubt that anyone who dies a child of the world (even a professing Christian), will find peace the moment before they die.

PS: Take note little children! I give you this message because I was once a person who wanted to believe "once saved always saved" but it nearly brought me to my doom! Don't let a trip to the altar be your ticket to Heaven! You must be born again! You must forget about EVERYTHING in this life you care about to the point it becomes forgotten!
And woe to the one who dabbles in the world holding the truth in unrighteousness on That Day!

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

What does it mean to "be saved"?
Jesus Christ makes it clear that there are people who will be expecting to receive eternal life at the end of all things, but will be told by Jesus Himself that He "Never knew" them.
That's precisely what I was afraid to get from the parables when I was claiming that an EXPERIENCE I had at the altar was what would get me to heaven.
I think that a lot of people (because I see my fruit in their lives -- that is, outright worldliness under the assumption that a trip to the altar, even a sincere one, will get them entry into Heaven) are going to look at God with a blank face when He asks them "Why should I let you into my Kingdom?" because "I went to the altar and sincerely prayed from my heart" isn't going to cut it and they're going to stand before Him with the knowledge that this is precisely what they were trusting in... and not Christ.
I think people are afraid of the STRAIGHT path that leads to the ONE DOOR.
That is putting off this world completely by separating oneself.
When you separate yourself you don't have to worry about sinning because through abstinence you place the BURDEN THAT SIN PLACES ON YOU on Christ.
"Christ, I'm trusting that You can give me something better than this sin can, therefore I'm going to NOT WILLFULLY ENGAGE IN IT."
I seriously doubt that anyone who dies a child of the world (even a professing Christian), will find peace the moment before they die.
Amazing! Well said! Reps to you :thumbsup:

[rugerfann]

What does it mean to "be saved"?
Jesus Christ makes it clear that there are people who will be expecting to receive eternal life at the end of all things, but will be told by Jesus Himself that He "Never knew" them.
That's precisely what I was afraid to get from the parables when I was claiming that an EXPERIENCE I had at the altar was what would get me to heaven.
I think that a lot of people (because I see my fruit in their lives -- that is, outright worldliness under the assumption that a trip to the altar, even a sincere one, will get them entry into Heaven) are going to look at God with a blank face when He asks them "Why should I let you into my Kingdom?" because "I went to the altar and sincerely prayed from my heart" isn't going to cut it and they're going to stand before Him with the knowledge that this is precisely what they were trusting in... and not Christ.
I think people are afraid of the STRAIGHT path that leads to the ONE DOOR.
That is putting off this world completely by separating oneself.
When you separate yourself you don't have to worry about sinning because through abstinence you place the BURDEN THAT SIN PLACES ON YOU on Christ.
"Christ, I'm trusting that You can give me something better than this sin can, therefore I'm going to NOT WILLFULLY ENGAGE IN IT."
And this is what it means to BE FREE. SIN creates a NEED within us that causes us to SIN. Why do crackheads smoke crack? Because they need to! But what happens if they don't smoke crack after some set period of time? They don't want to smoke crack anymore! Amazing, isn't it?
I seriously doubt that anyone who dies a child of the world (even a professing Christian), will find peace the moment before they die.

PS: Take note little children! I give you this message because I was once a person who wanted to believe "once saved always saved" but it nearly brought me to my doom! Don't let a trip to the altar be your ticket to Heaven! You must be born again! You must forget about EVERYTHING in this life you care about to the point it becomes forgotten!
And woe to the one who dabbles in the world holding the truth in unrighteousness on That Day!

I understand what you are saying,but scripture tells us that none will take us out of his hand.Is this a escuse to sin?God forbid!But the answer isn't,yipee I can sin all I want to now.But rather why whould you want to?

Like I also said before people dont understand what salvation is,95% people think its geting you sins forgiven.It isn't,it never has been.Its LIFE,if you have that life its not posible to give it up.Only sin can take it from you.It wont though becuase Jesus paid for all your sin.But people are stuborn,the want the Law,and the old covenant,becuase then they cane contribute to their salvation.The New covenant is you can do nothing for your salvation apart from christ,yet people reject this becuase there pride still wants to say they had some part in it.Its truely very.very sad people,are still going back to the day of atonement,instead of to Jesus!

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I understand what you are saying,but scripture tells us that none will take us out of his hand.

Are those people really in His hand? Certainly no contradictions with his position.

[treasurewords]

I understand what you are saying,but scripture tells us that none will take us out of his hand.Is this a escuse to sin?God forbid!But the answer isn't,yipee I can sin all I want to now.But rather why whould you want to?

Like I also said before people dont understand what salvation is,95% people think its geting you sins forgiven.It isn't,it never has been.Its LIFE,if you have that life its not posible to give it up.Only sin can take it from you.It wont though becuase Jesus paid for all your sin.But people are stuborn,the want the Law,and the old covenant,becuase then they cane contribute to their salvation.The New covenant is you can do nothing for your salvation apart from christ,yet people reject this becuase there pride still wants to say they had some part in it.Its truely very.very sad people,are still going back to the day of atonement,instead of to Jesus!

Friend, your enthusiasm is encouraging and I am getting the impression that your heart is for Jesus Christ.
I will say that I believe that there is a point at which in OUR HEARTS we say OKAY, I'M NEVER GOING BACK TO THE WORLD AGAIN, and PERHAPS we at that point (if you can divide time into slices of any size) hear Christ say "You are Mine forever, from this point on, for eternity".

All I want is to see the people who are deceiving themselves come to repentance. Because I went to the altar many a time and was sincere every time I bowed the knee. But it's an unspeakable understanding that gets you to Heaven, nothing I can tell you about.

[espritdejoie]

Well since I voted, I may as well explain it. ;)

I have always been taught that you can backslide and lose your salvation. And that when you re-dedicate your life to Jesus you are back in the fold. But you dont have to be re-saved.

This has always made me wonder. If you lose your salvation when you backslide, wouldnt you have to get re-saved?

This has given me many a night of pondering. And I have began to come around to the once saved always saved thinking.

I would really like to see what others think on this subject.

Because there are some things I just cant reconcile to the once saved always saved.

I would appreciate any scripture you could give for any of the choices.

Thanks! :)

I don't believe that there is an expiry date on Salvation. That's why it is called Eternal Salvation. The Apostle Paul was convinced when he said in Romans 8:38 & 39, "For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come; nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Stay close to Jesus. He won't let you get away.

[rugerfann]

Friend, your enthusiasm is encouraging and I am getting the impression that your heart is for Jesus Christ.
I will say that I believe that there is a point at which in OUR HEARTS we say OKAY, I'M NEVER GOING BACK TO THE WORLD AGAIN, and PERHAPS we at that point (if you can divide time into slices of any size) hear Christ say "You are Mine forever, from this point on, for eternity".

All I want is to see the people who are deceiving themselves come to repentance. Because I went to the altar many a time and was sincere every time I bowed the knee. But it's an unspeakable understanding that gets you to Heaven, nothing I can tell you about.

Yea,I agree with your post.

I wish people whould get rid of there legalism.This leads to more errors than anything else.I know I used to be a legalist.When I was it was near imposible for me to believe that christ took the Whole Words sin at the cross.This is becuase I believed in the false teaching that,salvation is geting your sins forgiven.It took a while for God to teach me,salvation is His life,and had nothing to do with sin.Sin was taken out of the way to give me life,if it had not been I lose it the first time I sinned.

To sum it up.Its hard to trust christ only for your salvation,this means you have no part in it.Mans pride usualy wont allow this.We still want to contribute somehow.

I'm glade now I rest in Christ and i have ceast from my works.All I can do is surender to christ Jesus,which i have done.

God bless!

[treasurewords]

Yea,I agree with your post.

I wish people whould get rid of there legalism.This leads to more errors than anything else.I know I used to be a legalist.When I was it was near imposible for me to believe that christ took the Whole Words sin at the cross.This is becuase I believed in the false teaching that,salvation is geting your sins forgiven.It took a while for God to teach me,salvation is His life,and had nothing to do with sin.Sin was taken out of the way to give me life,if it had not been I lose it the first time I sinned.

To sum it up.Its hard to trust christ only for your salvation,this means you have no part in it.Mans pride usualy wont allow this.We still want to contribute somehow.

I'm glade now I rest in Christ and i have ceast from my works.All I can do is surender to christ Jesus,which i have done.

God bless!
Then may we meet in eternity to come, rugerfan!

[Waylon]

It took a while for God to teach me,salvation is His life,and had nothing to do with sin.Sin was taken out of the way to give me life,if it had not been I lose it the first time I sinned.

To sum it up.Its hard to trust christ only for your salvation,this means you have no part in it.Mans pride usualy wont allow this.We still want to contribute somehow.

I'm glade now I rest in Christ and i have ceast from my works.All I can do is surender to christ Jesus,which i have done.

God bless!

I never realized that I was a legalist. :) What I don't understand is what you mean by "i have ceast from my works". I know that works alone don't do anything by themselves, faith is involved, and I know that you are not saying that you have just given up trying to get rid of sin in your life; but isn't there a little we do on our part or I am I just mi