Do you believe that once you are saved, you are always saved?

[his excellence]

Salvation in and of itself is a wonderful beautiful thing, with so much woven in , God really has great things for those who believe and follow His law.

My personal belief in this whole thing is this..... He knows we as christians not being perfect will falter from time to time, it is though where our hearts and souls are with out walk with Him that will bring forth his grace and forgiveness. We MUST confess our mistakes to Him and we MUST be willing to take action to prevent such from happening again and we MUST ask with our whole heart for that forgiveness.

He wants us to a point where we can see our weaknesses, identify their cause, confess them and with pure intentions ask for forgiveness and vow to prevent reoccurances of those things. This tells Him that we are serious about our relationship with HIm and that we do not want to sin.

We can either do these things or be like the boy who cried wolf too many times, after a while if you cry wolf enough God will say you are not serious about change.

[Kathryn]

Salvation in and of itself is a wonderful beautiful thing, with so much woven in , God really has great things for those who believe and follow His law.


Agreed. Salvation is NOT Christianity. Salvation is simply the door that leads you to it. Christianity is a life long discipline; not an event. I'm curious what these people are planning to say to Jesus on judgment day when He asks why they didn't consider His commandments important.

[his excellence]

Would be very interesting to hear. I know im not lilly white when it comes to not messing up, but I also am strong enough to recognize my faults and to admit them to the Lord and ask for forgiveness along with help in keeping from such actions again.

Just lately I have begun embarking on an awesome growing time with the Lord and I love every minute of it.

[British One]

Agreed. Salvation is NOT Christianity. Salvation is simply the door that leads you to it.

Surely its the other way round?

Christianity (i.e. following Christ) leads you to salvation. You don't become a Christian and then find Christ. You find Christ - and then become a follow of Him.

[Kathryn]

Surely its the other way round?



I would say no because it is not possible to follow Christ (the definition of a Christian--Christ follower) until you have been saved. Until you have been set free from your sinful nature and have received the Holy Spirit that guides you, you are in bondage to the sin and in separation from Christ. It's not possible to follow someone you can't see or hear.

You find Christ - and then become a follow of Him.

Exactly, you find the Person of Christ through salvation, and then you are set free and enabled to follow Him.

[British One]

I would say no because it is not possible to follow Christ (the definition of a Christian--Christ follower) until you have been saved. Until you have been set free from your sinful nature and have received the Holy Spirit that guides you, you are in bondage to the sin and in separation from Christ. It's not possible to follow someone you can't see or hear.

Exactly, you find the Person of Christ through salvation, and then you are set free and enabled to follow Him.

Agree with what you say, but possible the semiology is confusing the issue. I think we both agree on the main points anyway - no point arguing over something that is essentially just a different way of writing down a set of words! ;)

[his excellence]

I was raised in a traditional Lutheran Church, though the preaching was good, I was never told that I had to accept Jesus into my heart in order to be saved. It was not until 1982 Summer that I found out otherwise at a Billy Graham Crusade in my hometown. Prior to that point I was musically involved in the church, youth group leader, sunday school teacher but had NO idea what Salvation meant.

IT is possible to serve the Lord and not know what salvation or Born again means until someone leads you to that point.

[EmilyAnn]

I think to be saved and go to heaven you must believe in Jesus; however you can still serve the Lord without salvation. It is all dependant on your attitude.

[Ben johnson]

I would say no because it is not possible to follow Christ (the definition of a Christian--Christ follower) until you have been saved. Until you have been set free from your sinful nature and have received the Holy Spirit that guides you, you are in bondage to the sin and in separation from Christ. It's not possible to follow someone you can't see or hear.The belief of Calvinism asserts that we are too depraved to even HEAR the Gospel; that we are as good as dead. (The analogy of one throwing a life-preserver to a floating corpse.) But --- I simply don't find this in Scripture. Jesus said, "If I am lifted up, I will draw ALL MEN to Myself." Jn12:32 Suppose, just for argument, that atonement is UNLIMITED; suppose Paul really meant in Rom5:17-18, that "all men are offered justification, in the same magnitude that all men are condemned". If "no man can come to Jesus except the Father draws him" (Jn6:44), and if Jesus drawss ALL MEN to Himself, then would not "total depravity" be overcome in enough measure that he COULD believe? Think about that "corpse floating in the water", and tell me how that accomodates Rom10:13-21. "WHOEVER will call on the name of the Lord will be saved". Does this suggest "only the FEW ELECT WILL CALL"? Verses like Rev22:17 ("let O-THELOS-whosoever-WILL/DESIRES drink of the water of life FREELY") deny this.

"How shall they call on whom they have not heard? How shall they hear without a preacher?" Where is the predestination in this? It doesn't say "they will here IF GOD WILLS", it says "they will hear IF THERE'S A PREACHER"...

"However, they DID NOT HEED the gospel." Why? Verse 21 says "obstinance and disobedience".

"FAITH comes from HEARING." But without a preacher, they CANNOT hear, so they CANNOT have faith. This is `100% of the person, 0% of God-ordained.

Calvinism says "regeneration causes belief"; and "the CORPES cannot HEAR nor BELIEVE before God makes him LIVE." But Scripture clearly says, "we who BELIEVE (receive Jesus), are made alive through Him (through our belief). Scripture says, "belief causes regeneration". Clear sequence.

The question of this thread is "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"? If salvation is by BELIEF, if man is FREE to believe or not, [b]then why would man not be equally free to DISBELIEVE? It reads to me that he is...

[Tenorvoice]

:wave:

I have always thougth that once you are saved you are always saved...But let us not forget the the Devil will hold the ladder for a person that is willing to "sit on the shelf for God".

[Ben johnson]

But let us not forget the the devil will hold the ladder for a person that is willing to "sit on the shelf for God".
Whst does that mean?
:)

[MYMOM]

YES YOU ARE

[sammipher]

I dont agree with once saved always saved...if this was the case near about everyone would be going to heaven...no one would have to live a christ like life..the gate of heaven would be wide and not narrow.

[COVENANT GIRL]

No matter what you can't stop being a Christian if you are a Christian...:D

[UGADawgs87]

It's hard to believe that once you're saved , you're always saved. But, the Bible says that it's true. So I have to go by that :)

[Spurgeon]

If you are saved, you have a changed heart. So yes.

[jeffs_girl_2004]

I think that you can loose it but you can always turn your life around and get it back.

[Big C]

I believe GOD never "strips" us of our salvation. In fact, I believe that if we get backslidden to the point of no return HE will put things in motion to just bring you home with HIM (R.I.P)...however, I do believe YOU can "give up" your salvation!
There are many who have, and will continue to turn from the faith. They are basically saying, I don't believe in you and I no longer need you...without faith it is impossible to be saved! "If after you've come to the knowledge of truth,you turn back, there is no more sacrifice for sin".

[Ben johnson]

I do believe YOU can "give up" your salvation!
There are many who have, and will continue to turn from the faith. They are basically saying, I don't believe in you and I no longer need you...without faith it is impossible to be saved! "If after you've come to the knowledge of truth,you turn back, there is no more sacrifice for sin".From Heb10:26. But there are those that think "salvic-faith is instilled by God, so we have no choice..."

I agree with you, faith that receives Jesus is our choice; start to finish...
In fact, I believe that if we get backslidden to the point of no return HE will put things in motion to just bring you home with HIM (R.I.P)...There are some who think verses like 1Cor5:5 has this idea; but doesn't that mean that a sinful, immoral man (in your description "backslidden", in other words sinning continuously/willfully) will (if unrepentant before death) enter Heaven? Is that possible?

[frumanchu]

But there are those that think "salvic-faith is instilled by God, so we have no choice..."

Please let me know when you find someone who thinks that. I'd be interested to hear their explanation.

[Victrixa]

I believe that one can lose his or her salvation. One can decide to follow Jesus one day and the next decide not to follow Him anymore. We all have free will. Free will applies to the moment we decide to become a follower of Jesus Christ as well as to the moment, if we decide so, to not follow Him any longer. Jesus is not going to force anyone to go to Heaven in God's presence. One may wish the friendship of God at one point in his or her life and at another moment, not desire it any longer...

For me, OSAS goes against the free will that God gave to us. It's like as if, once you're 'saved' and you no longer wish the friendship of God that you're stuck to be 'saved' despite your desire not to be... Feels like a prison to me...

The Apostle Paul told us to 'work out our salvation with fear and trembling'. Salvation is an ongoing process. You must stay on the Path continually in order to be 'saved in the end'.

In Hebrews we can read that 'without holiness no one will see the Lord'. So, if we do not follow Christ by following His example in holiness, we will not see Him.

Pax Christi,

Caroline

[Ben johnson]

Please let me know when you find someone who thinks that. I'd be interested to hear their explanation.Find you someone who thinks that "salvic-faith is instilled, unavoidable-irreisistible-invariable consequence of regeneration"? Happy to:

We are saved by faith and that not of our own but by a gift from God that no man should boast.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=180598&postcount=51

I thought faith came came from God as a gift and only the H.S. giveth one the ability to understandeth God 1 cor 2:10
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1189419&postcount=43

God Gives Faith and He puts us ungodly men into Christ
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1193392&postcount=46

We are saved by grace and saving faith - both gifts from God.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1195884&postcount=51

Eph 2:5-10 explains it perfectly. Verse 8 says faith is a gift given so we can do what God intended us to do. He intended for us to respond to His Grace (in fact He knew we would) and He gives us a gift to make that possible.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1149499&postcount=7

its all God's work..... including give us faith to be able to believe
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1243161&postcount=73

Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1298223&postcount=123

You do not have faith. God gives it to you enabling your faith in Christ. It is totally and completely a work of God.
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1419289&postcount=139

We are freed from the law(works) b/c of what Christ did but b/c he gives us faith
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1604087&postcount=166

I believe that the redemption wrought by the Lord Jesus Christ is effectualy applied to all His people by the Holy Spirit, who works faith in me and thereby unites me to Christ,
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=755397&postcount=46

God couples the regeneration of the heart with the hearing of the gospel to bring one to saving faith. There will never be a case where God regenerates someone's heart and then never presents him with the gospel to produce a faith within him
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=780735&postcount=550




Alas, I am on a dialup; this took some time, But I could give you HUNDREDS if I had the time and motivation. Do you want some more?

I especially like the last one: "God REGENERATES the man, UNILATERALLY; then presents the Gospel to him, and that "PRODUCES a faith within him". Obviously the poster means "produces SAVING-FAITH". I see absolutely no distinction between what this person said, and what I said about "Calvinists assert that God INSTILLS saving-faith". "Instill" means "impart, infuse, make-part-of". Chilehed above said "infuse", Woody said, "He WORKS faith IN me".

All these people agree that "salvic-faith is the GIFT of God". All of them agree that "salvic faith could never come from the man, it is instilled by God". Difference only in process; either by direct instillment, OR by consequence of the INSTILLED-REGENERATION, which (as the last poster stated) is then confronted with the Gospel so that the man WILL believe. It PRODUCES faith.

That last post that I quoted just above, with its link, was posted by someone named "Frumanchu".

[missiondocsda]

This is subjective. God draws to us and we draw to God. Biblical basis.

So yee your salvation is today, it can be also your loss of the privilege forfeited by yourself today, when you fail to keep it long enough.

This type of changing mood, turn on and off, off and on, is ridiculous but for a range of long period, is a walk of lifetime, that eventually build a strong relationship with Whom He wants to redeem you back. It's the matter of relationship. Do you cherish that often?

When your death strike, everything will be set. Based on your lifetime walk with Him, will He consider you forbidden from Heaven? That's grace. You might ask about the turning off, why? Weak fleshes, need to be enpowered for His glory. Your fall, but that brings you back to Him.

Your death, spiritually, or physically, determines all. But the rest, is up to God, we know, He is long-suffering and gracious, keeping the wrath from the city of Nenavah after their repentance. We should be like Jonah, helping others to secure their salvation. Unless I do so, I can't tell anyone about my salvation, once or for ever.

[†Neil†]

I believe you are saved unless you blaspheme the Holy Spirit which is saying Jesus got his powers from somewhere else than God. A Christian will hardly ever do that but some just find it too hard to believe and rebel and do say that and therefore lose their salvation. God gave us a choice and if we choose to let go of Him He wouldn't hold onto us because he loves us and let's us do our thing.

[visionary]

"After she (Carol Wimber) had a dream in 1976 of standing preaching to a large crowd a seven-point sermon on the gifts of the Spirit, at the final point, 'a sensation like hot electricity' hit her head, travelled down her body, then up and out of her mouth. She awakened speaking in tongues. The sensation of heat and electricity is typical of that experienced in the current revival. She said 'Soon God stopped showing me what he had wanted to do in the past and began to show me what he was going to do in the future. I had a strong sense of God's desire for his bride, for the whole Church - Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox.' (Riding the Third Wave - 1987)

Once saved always saved....if she believed it...acted on it....and yet she is deluding herself. A Holy experience, is not a sensation, a electrical current, and it will cause you to be like Isaiah to say Woe is me for I am unclean. Sin can no exist in the presence of God. If the Holy Spirit is to descend upon you, you would have the conscience exposing you hidden motives. Pr. 20:27 You would want to have your conscience clear, "drawing near with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience.." Heb 10:22 "they show that the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them." Romans 2:15

If you let Jesus open up the Book of Your Life and go through it with you, you would repent because you would be shown the depths of sin and how the roots of sin are deeper than that little sin you thought nothing of. Jesus promised to come in to you, and will talk with you, and you with Him." Rev 3:20 That is a literal experience we all need to experience. Be zealous therefore and repent, Jesus is going to rebuke and chasten those he loves.

[frumanchu]

Find you someone who thinks that "salvic-faith is instilled, unavoidable-irreisistible-invariable consequence of regeneration"? Happy to:

God couples the regeneration of the heart with the hearing of the gospel to bring one to saving faith. There will never be a case where God regenerates someone's heart and then never presents him with the gospel to produce a faith within him
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=780735&postcount=550

Alas, I am on a dialup; this took some time, But I could give you HUNDREDS if I had the time and motivation. Do you want some more?

I especially like the last one: "God REGENERATES the man, UNILATERALLY; then presents the Gospel to him, and that "PRODUCES a faith within him". Obviously the poster means "produces SAVING-FAITH". I see absolutely no distinction between what this person said, and what I said about "Calvinists assert that God INSTILLS saving-faith". "Instill" means "impart, infuse, make-part-of". Chilehed above said "infuse", Woody said, "He WORKS faith IN me".

All these people agree that "salvic-faith is the GIFT of God". All of them agree that "salvic faith could never come from the man, it is instilled by God". Difference only in process; either by direct instillment, OR by consequence of the INSTILLED-REGENERATION, which (as the last poster stated) is then confronted with the Gospel so that the man WILL believe. It PRODUCES faith.

That last post that I quoted just above, with its link, was posted by someone named "Frumanchu".
Good work, Ben. But in this last section you still can't bring it all together. "Produced" does not mean the same thing as "instilled." For example, I am producing frustration in you by my posts, but I am not instilling or infusing frustration into you. The frustration is all yours :) Do you see the difference?

BTW, I disagree with Chilehed's use of the word "infused."

I want to clarify what my position is lest others' words be used against me.

Saving faith is the gift of God. Salvific faith could never come from the unregenerate man's own initiative. I stand by my words above (I do have an exception actually to it, but it does not pertain to this conversation). The regenerate heart, when presented with the Gospel, naturally brings forth faith. Faith is an act of will. The will operates according to desire, and the regeneration of the heart is a change from a desire against God to one for Him. Therefore, when presented with the Gospel, the regenerate's desire for God will bring about faith, quite according to his own will. Man's faith is not placed in him (infused/instilled), but is brought forth from him (produced). That in itself is a gracious process, and we are thus fully justified in stating that our faith is a gift from God. The regenerate man is not forced or coerced to believe against his will. He is a quite willing participant.

By the way, Ben...there is no such word as "salvic" in the English language, but if there were I suspect it would more likely have to do with petroleum jelly than with theology. (this is not a dig on you, I'm just pointing it out because it's been driving me crazy. but hey...I'm the one who until recently has been typing "rediculous" all the time) ;)

[Ben johnson]

Good work, Ben. But in this last section you still can't bring it all together. "Produced" does not mean the same thing as "instilled." For example, I am producing frustration in you by my posts, but I am not instilling or infusing frustration into you. The frustration is all yours Do you see the difference?Source. If you were to "whack me over the head with a board", and then tomorrow I had a headache, that pain is entirely "of me"; but it would have been instilled by you. If I had instead forgotten to duck and collided with an overhead pipe, the pain is the same, but the source is different --- I am at fault, the pain flows from something I did.

If regeneration is unasked and unknown (before it occurs), and if regeneration 100% always leads to faith, then that faith is correctly credited to the One who instilled the regeneration which CAUSED (led to, flowed invariably/irresistibly/unavoidably, if you insist on "splitting hairs" and disliking "CAUSED") faith.
Saving faith is the gift of God. Salvific faith could never come from the unregenerate man's own initiative.How can you utter these words, and object so strongly to my saying, "INSTILLED by God"? Either faith is FROM us, or it is FROM (instilled by) God. Even if it CONSEQUENTS from regeneration, if that regeneration is instilled and PRODUCES faith, that faith is ALSO instilled BY that instilled regeneration. But the discourse becomes derailed by "word-play".
By the way, Ben...there is no such word as "salvic" in the English languageMay be; but its meaning is clear without even going to the dictionary. But looking in the dictionary is always fun, always new words to discover. Why, just today (as I was looking up "Salvic"), I came across a new one, "pedant".

What Reformed theology has failed to establish, is the idea that "regeneration precedes belief". (Yeah I know how you read Eph2:5, but this statement reflects how I understand the connection between 2:5 & 2:8.)

:)

[Glorianna]

No because faith + works = salvation.

[Ben johnson]

No because faith + works = salvation.
Hi, Glorianna! Have you ever read Eph2:8? "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works lest anyone boast."

How do you fit what you said with that verse?

:)

[alfcantor]

I believe that it is more about the condition of your heart when you die than "once saved always saved." In my opinion (opinion, dont use this as doctrine)... if you want to go to heaven and you believe in Jesus and what he did then you are bound for heaven (just as the bible says). However, I will say that it is all up to God. I cant judge what does and doesnt determine salvation. All i know is that people can fall away from God and turn against him, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE TO COME BACK!!!!!! (just like the song "Phobic" by Plumb).

[alfcantor]

"Phobic"--- Plumb

"I watched you sit alone
I watched you cry your eyes out
Now tell me what you've done

Is it so bad that
I would shut you out
And leave you here alone

Yes, I saw what you did
I was right there with you
I won't let you sink
No, I forgive you

Phobic
Don't be
Grace needs a little more freedom
Phobic
Don't be
Love needs room to breathe

I have watched you grow
And I've stood in your shadow
I've never walked away

I hung the stars and
I hold your heart
So, don't ever be afraid

Yes, I know when you breathe
And I feel when you need
I won't let you sink
No, I forgive you

You can be healed
You can be free
You can know peace
Never be afraid again

Never be afraid
Never be afraid
He's here"

[bgoddenia]

:wave: Hi and bless you,Of course if we ain't careful we can lose our salvation, even with our thougts we sin if we don't capture our thoughts before it settles in our hearts. It's our duty to watch and be careful that we do not fall into temptation and sin..
YOURS IN HIM,
BETSY

[jeshohaia]

I guess so I dont know. I still knew G-D exsisted when I did horriable things in His eyes. I knew Yeshua was the son of G-D who died that I may live. I dont know if its different for other people. I just dont know.

[Ben johnson]

:clap: @ Alfcantor

jeshohaia, as long as you WORRY, then I don't beleive there is danger of falling away. You see, the fallen DISBELIEVE; and their consciences are seared. They don't spend any time worrying about it.

Not that worry should be part of us, but concern and spiritual pulling draws us close to Him. May the Spirit always indwell each of us, and always draw us closer to Him.

:)

[Bulldog]

Yes.

[tqpix]

Luke 10:42
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

[Bladecarver]

There is a verse, can't remember which one it is, where God says that there is one way to lose salvation. There is one unforgivable sin. What that sin is, I'm not sure.

[Big C]

Yes, I believe once you are saved you are always saved! Understand, GOD looks inside your heart, which means reguardless if you said the "sinners prayer"...HE knows if it was truely sincere! That's why "nothing can seperate us from the love of christ"..."none can pluck you from HIS right hand"..."those HE was given, HE is able to keep them" ...ect-ect.
If you were sincere in accepting JESUS as Lord/saviour you need not worry about salvation...simply look at your life for the fruits (or lack thereof) if you need proof of your sincerity.
Besides, if salvation was something to be "lost", then you also have the power to keep it...thus "it is not of works" is rendered void! On the contrary however, I do believe you can "give up" (forfeit if you will) salvation by turnning away and basically saying "I no longer want or need you JESUS"! ps...this doesn't have to be verbal.

[UnhandledException]

Yes, I believe once you are saved you are always saved!
I agree. I would like to ask any parents out there.
Is there anything your child could do to make you not love him/her?

[aggie03]

I agree. I would like to ask any parents out there.
Is there anything your child could do to make you not love him/her?
It's not a matter of the parent disregarding the child, but of the child turning their back on the parent. Is it possible for children to hate their parents? Modern history would answer with a vehement yes.

[aggie03]

Luke 10:42
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
"Shall not be taken" does not mean that she can't give it up. I agree that God will never take away salvation from us, but that in no way means that we are not capable of turning our back on God and forfeiting our own salvation.

[Ben johnson]

I agree. I would like to ask any parents out there.
Is there anything your child could do to make you not love him/her?Question: in Luke15:13, and ONLY verse 13, at that point --- is the son, SAVED?
(Please see Eph5:5 & 1Jn3:7-10 before you answer....)

[frumanchu]

Question: in Luke15:13, and ONLY verse 13, at that point --- is the son, SAVED?
(Please see Eph5:5 & 1Jn3:7-10 before you answer....)

LOL!

Yeah. Don't look at any context...ONLY at that isolated verse. Well, that and a few other verses elsewhere...but NOT the ones around the verse.

[Ben johnson]

Yeah. Don't look at any context...ONLY at that isolated verse. Well, that and a few other verses elsewhere...but NOT the ones around the verse.Welllllll --- it was a valid question. For those who say that "the Prodigal never stopped being a SON, did he?" (Implying that the parable was not about losing-and-regaining salvation.)

While the son was in the far land, he was living in immorality and hedonism. When he RETURNED, the father said: "He was LOST now is FOUND; was dead, now is alive again."

So the question is "while he was away, did he remain saved?"

OR, in other words, Was the point of the Parable that the fallen will ALWAYS RETURN, or was the point about "falling from salvation and then returning to it"?

[Billnew]

Satan can always pull you back.
Lost sheep once found can again wonder away.
Remember, It's harder to give to god, then to give to Satan.The offering plate is passed with groans, and we give the devil freely.(bartenders, dealers, card sharks, prostitution,
any other sins we throw money at.)
We must continuously evaluate ourselves to ensure we follow gods path.

[beatarmy2]

I honestly don't know, but doesn't God say in the Bible that once you are saved, you will always be saved???

[kerux]

Hebrew 10:26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

The thing is the intent, if we purposely sin, than yes we can lose our salvation, but I see this as making a decision as to say, in despite of what I should do, I am going to make sure and sin today. I feel that this is not a thing many of us would ever do.

[Ben johnson]

The thing is the intent, if we purposely sin, than yes we can lose our salvation, but I see this as making a decision as to say, in despite of what I should do, I am going to make sure and sin today. I feel that this is not a thing many of us would ever do.Good post; he who consciously walks away from God in favor of sin must be lost.

But it occurs to me that no one who really BELIEVES in Hell, would ever risk GOING there.

"Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God. But encourage one another ...lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin." Heb3:12-14

"God tempts no one; each one is tempted when he is enticed and carried away by his own lust. Then lust conceived gives birth to sin, and sin brings death. Do not be deceived beloved brethren." James 1:14-16

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of liars seared in their own consciences as with a branding iron..." 1Tim4:1

It is deceit by sin to hardened hearts that "causes a believer to fall away from the living God". Salvation by belief can be deceived to unbelief and unsalvation.

And an unbeliever does not say "I will REBELLIOUSLY SIN and RUN FROM GOD" --- an unbeliever says, "I don't believe in God so I'll do what I want."

Heb10 is full of warning against believers; verse 26 describes one who "WAS sanctified by the blood, but now tramples Jesus, scorns the blood, insults the Spirit --- and deserves severe punishment" (vs 29). WE are warned to "not throw away our confidence (not throw away JESUS) in vs 35, and told "we need endurance, so that WHEN we have done the will of God, THEN we may receive the Promise." (36)

Even Paul's encouragement of vs 39 does not negate all of the true warnings...

[aChristianFrost]

Romans 5:20-21
"Now the Law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

The more you sin, the more God's grace covers it. BUT.

Hebrews 4:1
"Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it."

Obey God, that is, don't sin! Because if you do you might find that you have not reached the prize. Not that "works" kicks in after salvation though, its still by grace, but be assured that you have recieved that grace!

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for it they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

This verse shows that if someone "backslides" they were never saved in the first place... infact... basicly the whole of 1 John says that. So... can a Christian lose their salvation? Nope. If it appears a Christian has lost their salvation, they weren't a Christian to begin with. If you are a Christian rest in God's security, but don't think you have gained the prize already, you havn't, you must strive to reach it.

Philip. 3:11-16
"that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. [12] Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. [13] Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, [14] I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. [16] Only let us hold true to what we have attained."

[Ben johnson]

1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for it they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

This verse shows that if someone "backslides" they were never saved in the first place... infact... basicly the whole of 1 John says that. So... can a Christian lose their salvation? Nope. If it appears a Christian has lost their salvation, they weren't a Christian to begin with. If you are a Christian rest in God's security, but don't think you have gained the prize already, you havn't, you must strive to reach it.Hello, aChristianFrost! Welcome to the boards!

If "all who go out from us" were "never of us", then what do you make of 2Jn1:7-9?

If 1Jn2 is speaking of "eternally-saved", how do you read 1Jn2:26-29? Doesn't, "Abide in Him SO THAT not-shrink-back when He appears" --- indicate that abiding (and not falling to those trying to deceive --- vs26) is a CHOICE?

Thanx...

[aChristianFrost]

Hey, Thanks Ben,

OK, 2John1:7-9. I'm not sure what you're getting at to be totally honest. In reference to "all who go out from us were never of us", I would say this passage supports it. If anyone goes ahead without abiding in the teaching of Christ then they don't have God, not here implying that they had God at one point and then lost Him. But, I'm not sure thats what you were getting at though.

With the second passage, I'd say, sure we have a choice, we are told that we have to continue to abide in Him or we might not make it. But if you don't make it, it means that you weren't abiding in God.

I have to admit, I don't really understand what you are getting at, maybe you could tease it out a bit for me...

Thanx...

[Ben johnson]

OK, 2John1:7-9. I'm not sure what you're getting at to be totally honest. In reference to "all who go out from us were never of us", I would say this passage supports it. If anyone goes ahead without abiding in the teaching of Christ then they don't have God, not here implying that they had God at one point and then lost Him. But, I'm not sure thats what you were getting at though.

With the second passage, I'd say, sure we have a choice, we are told that we have to continue to abide in Him or we might not make it. But if you don't make it, it means that you weren't abiding in God.

I have to admit, I don't really understand what you are getting at, maybe you could tease it out a bit for me...Many who believe in "OSAS", think that there is a subject change between 2Jn1:8, and verse 9. I don't see it. It is written to BELIEVERS (children walking in truth); it warns against "deceivers". Plainly saying, "watch yourselves, that you do not lose what was wrought". What can they lose? Contextually, verse 9 follows, indicating WHAT can be lost --- by "accepting the deceivers and leaving the teachings of Jesus, going TOO FAR and not abiding in Jesus, so as to NOT HAVE GOD." I don't see how this verse can mean anything else.

In 2Jn1:7-9, it seems to clearly say "any of you who FALL to deceivers and GO OUT FROM US, fall from salvation." This stands against the belief that 1Jn2:19 says "ANY who go out from us were NEVER OF us".

Verse 1:2:26-29 also stands against the idea that "you cannot become unsaved" --- he warns TO abide, SO THAT you not shrink from Him in shame.

There is no way that those who "shrink-in-shame-at-His-coming" are saved, and "abiding" is presented as a clear choice. I don't see how John supported "OSAS" in 1Jn2.

[EmAgDnImGiRl]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!! Always, and forever. You just have to ask god to forgive you. Cause a sin is a sin. Murdering some one is no different that stealing something from the store. They are both sins, and add up the same in gods eyes.

[steelmagnolia]

If you feel you've lost your salvation, maybe you never had it to begin with.

Once saved always saved. God holds me in his hands. No one or nothing can take me away from him. Read John 10:25-30

If I walk away from Him, deny Him - then I was never saved in the first place.

Does this give us freedom to sin and live like the devil? NO.
Read Romans 6:1

[Smi1eWarrior]

I have always belive that people who "backslide" have never had the conviction of God in theirs hearts and therefore have never really been saved... ya know what i mean.

How could anyone turn away form somehtign so awesome as God.

Mara :)

[Molly7]

I'm not quite sure how to vote in this poll. See, I don't believe that because people are Christian, they automatically go to heaven. I think God also looks at the way we act and the way we think. I also think that God forgives us for our sins if we are sorry and if we want to and ask to be forgiven. But I'm not really sure how that fits into the poll.

~Molly

[guitargalmeg]

If you feel you've lost your salvation, maybe you never had it to begin with.

Once saved always saved. God holds me in his hands. No one or nothing can take me away from him. Read John 10:25-30

If I walk away from Him, deny Him - then I was never saved in the first place.

Does this give us freedom to sin and live like the devil? NO.
Read Romans 6:1
i agree!

[frumanchu]

I have always belive that people who "backslide" have never had the conviction of God in theirs hearts and therefore have never really been saved... ya know what i mean.

How could anyone turn away form somethign so awesome as God.

Mara :)
That depends on what you mean by "backslide." As Christians we are quite capable of falling into grievous sin for a time. David, the Lord's annointed, fell into grievous sin. There is no doubt that David was a believer, but he nevertheless fell into temptation. But God restored Him as He does with all His children. He chastens whom He loves. He will never abandon us but acts to preserve us. Indeed, were we to rely on ourselves alone battling against the world, the flesh and the devil, I doubt any would withstand it. But He has set His seal upon us, giving us the earnest of the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our salvation. He is able to keep us from stumbling and to preserve us. Though we may wander at times and fall into temptations, He will never allow us to fall so far as to lose the salvation He has given us.

[vApOrTrAiL]

I too was taught if you are saved that unless you lose your salvtion, you are good to go. Am sort of new to Christianity, recently baptised in the Methodist Church. Just beginning.

[Ben johnson]

Vaportrail, welcome to the boards! And WELCOME TO THE FAMILY!!! We ARE family, and when Jesus returns we willall be together with Him!!! :D

Do you fully understand salvation, Vaportrail? Being Christian is not a BELIEF, it is not a DOCTRINE, nor DOGMA; it's not a LIFESTYLE --- in a single succinct and complete one-word-description, it is FELLOWSHIP with God!!! See 1Jn1:3,6-7!

"John" is an excellent book to read for one just beginning. Then Romans --- all of Christianity is in Romans, in detail. Everyone has heard "BORN AGAIN" --- see John3:3 and following; but what does it MEAN? Paul explains it in Rom6 --- death of the old sin-nature, birth of the NEW. Yet in Rom7 it speaks of the WAR, between the NEW nature (which desires righteousness), and the OLD DEAD (but not gone, and sometimes ALIVE causing us to SIN) nature. The solution to the war, is in ch8 --- "what weak flesh COULD not do, God did --- sending His Son in the image of sinful flesh; therefore, we are under obligation --- not to walk after the flesh (which is death), but if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh, WE SHALL LIVE!" :D

The foundation of Christianity, is that FELLOWSHIP; the Holy Spirit, a real person, INDWELLS your heart, regenerating you from the inside out; guiding you in the paths of righteousness. And Jesus-the-Son INDWELLS you, doing your good deeds THROUGH you. Thus --- we are not saved BY good works, but we-the-saved WILL do good deeds, because of Jesus doing them THROUGH us! See 2Cor5:17, and Gal2:20.

Salvation --- is receiving Jesus as Savior, and LORD --- which means MASTER. The Creator of the Universe --- who made us --- who knos us INTIMATELY --- who knows what will make us RIDICULOUSLY HAPPY --- desires us to have the abundance, the joy, the eternity of resting in LOVE. God IS love!

THOUGH --- this world is imperfect; we WILL have persecution and tribulation (Jn16:33); there is death, heartache, sickness, evil; in Him there is joy, He has a plan for us. The day will come when He returns and all the pain and sorrow will be GONE!

And we shall live forever with the Author of Love, the Creator Himself. Until then, fellowship with Him in prayer --- praise/worship, repentance, thanksgiving (did you all eat today? Do you have clothes? Then you are BLESSED! Many do NOT. Unthankfulness is arguably the root of ALL sin!) --- then intercession (pray hard for your family, your friends, AND YOUR ENEMIES! Desire salvation for them all, poind on God's door for them to BE saved, for yourself to be changed into what they need to see to believe in God!) --- and finally, pettition; pray for your needs, and that you desires will be godly desires --- that He will "give you life, and in abundance"!

John10:10, 15:11; Matt7:7-11 (James 4:2-3), Psalm 37:4.

[Ben johnson]

I'm not quite sure how to vote in this poll. See, I don't believe that because people are Christian, they automatically go to heaven. I think God also looks at the way we act and the way we think. I also think that God forgives us for our sins if we are sorry and if we want to and ask to be forgiven. But I'm not really sure how that fits into the poll.Hi, Molly! :)

Yes He does "look at what we do"; yet, we are not saved by good deeds, nor are we saved by evil deeds. The thing is, salvation is Jesus IN YOU; the DEEDS, show the state of your HEART --- if Jesus is in you (and you are "in Christ"), then you will HAVE the good deeds. Make sense?

Salvation is by grace, through faith; we can KNOW that we ARE saved (1Jn5:11-13). And yet, there are plenty of verses that say "whoever endures to the end will be saved". It's not that we must DO THINGS to stay saved, but rather we are to "keep ourselves in Jesus, in the love of God".

Every day we have a choice to SIN, or NOT to sin; and after sinning, we have the same choice --- to sin AGAIN, or to REPENT and hurl ourselves on His grace asking for forgiveness (1Jn1:9 says He WILL forgive us!). Do you think one who continues in sin, will have any part in eternity? Neither do I.

[Ben johnson]

That depends on what you mean by "backslide." As Christians we are quite capable of falling into grievous sin for a time. David, the Lord's annointed, fell into grievous sin. There is no doubt that David was a believer, but he nevertheless fell into temptation. But God restored Him as He does with all His children. He chastens whom He loves. He will never abandon us but acts to preserve us. Indeed, were we to rely on ourselves alone battling against the world, the flesh and the devil, I doubt any would withstand it. But He has set His seal upon us, giving us the earnest of the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our salvation. He is able to keep us from stumbling and to preserve us. Though we may wander at times and fall into temptations, He will never allow us to fall so far as to lose the salvation He has given us.Hi, Mara! Fru and I have had many friendly debates on this; some day I will convince him that the Scripture says "the PROMISE of salvation", not "GUARANTEE". I see many verses as "real warnings against falling-from-salvation", Fru sees the same verses as merely hypotheticals (can't REALLY happen) to teach us lessons.
How could anyone turn away form somehtign so awesome as God.
Unbelief. Look at Heb3:12-14, it details the process clearly. And James 1:14-16. Many other verses. But as belief in Jesus SAVES, only unbelief CONDEMNS. Tell me something --- do you think there will be ANYONE cast into Hell, who really BELIEVED in Hell? Not likely. When people love sin, then by definition they hate God; and disregard Hell. That's really the two choices we have --- to be slaves to SIN, or to be slaves to GOD.

Fru and I have agreement on many things too; we agree that salvation is NOT by works, that one who (at this moment) is PRACTICING sin (drunkennes, fornication/adultery, robbery, carousing, etc) --- is NOT saved. We agree on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and of Jesus.

One disagreement between Fru and I, is that Fru understands that "God regenerates (or renews) the heart FIRST, and FROM this unilateral-regeneration flows belief, faith, perseverance, maturity; while I find in Scripture that BELIEF precedes (and receives) the Holy Spirit and His regeneration, belief causes the Gospel to be POWER to us rather than FOLLY. Whatever disagreements we have (until Jesus returns and CORRECTS Fru ---errrr, I mean, corrects whichever of us is WRONG! :P ), there is enough to stand in agreement ON, that we all may fellowship in the Spirit in love.

:)

[frumanchu]

Hi, Mara! Fru and I have had many friendly debates on this; some day I will convince him that the Scripture says "the PROMISE of salvation", not "GUARANTEE". I see many verses as "real warnings against falling-from-salvation", Fru sees the same verses as merely hypotheticals (can't REALLY happen) to teach us lessons.
Actually, that's not entirely accurate. There are only a few of Ben's proof texts that I view based on the context as being hypothetical and meant to elaborate or expand upon a point. The fact is, the vast majority of the verses Ben provides simply don't say what he believes they do. He relies on a widespread view of numerous phrases being euphemistic for salvation (or loss thereof) when the context does not support it.

One disagreement between Fru and I, is that Fru understands that "God regenerates (or renews) the heart FIRST, and FROM this unilateral-regeneration flows belief, faith, perseverance, maturity; while I find in Scripture that BELIEF precedes (and receives) the Holy Spirit and His regeneration, belief causes the Gospel to be POWER to us rather than FOLLY.
I believe that this point is at the very heart (no pun intended) of the matter. Ben believes that one places his faith in something he finds foolish and ridiculous, and THEN comes to understand what it was he put his faith in.

I would point out that perseverance and maturity are a synergistic effort between the Lord and the believer. I believe that without the work of the Holy Spirit in preserving us, we would not be able to withstand the world, the flesh and the devil in the long run.

If you want a detailed understanding of what I believe, you need only look as far as the Westminster Confession of Faith. I believe it to be as accurate a representation of the Gospel truth written by men as you can find.

Whatever disagreements we have (until Jesus returns and CORRECTS Fru ---errrr, I mean, corrects whichever of us is WRONG! :P ), there is enough to stand in agreement ON, that we all may fellowship in the Spirit in love.
Heh. ;)

[caitlincares]

I was taught as a youngster at camp that your are saved unless you blaspheme (SP?) against the Holy Spirit.
We were shown that in scripture. I believe it was in John or Luke.
Once I saw it in scripture and it made sense to me I have no reason to doubt that.

I have attended churches that believe in backsliding and coming back.
I never accepted that myself.
I think people can do bad things and need to straighten out their life but do not believe you lose your salvation over it.
I think they just get back in tune with the program.

Let those who have not sinned throw the first stone!
Thank you Jesus for our Salvation.

[frumanchu]

I was taught as a youngster at camp that your are saved unless you blaspheme (SP?) against the Holy Spirit.
We were shown that in scripture. I believe it was in John or Luke.
Once I saw it in scripture and it made sense to me I have no reason to doubt that.
In the context that was given, I believe some had been accusing Jesus of performing supernatural works via the power of Satan. Jesus said that whoever blasphemes Him may be at some point forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit (such as these men did by attributing the work of the Spirit to Satan) will not be forgiven.

I truly do not believe that a person who has been born again can speak against the Spirit in this manner.

[rubberduckie]

frumanchu, I agree with you. Some say Hitler was a Christian, an that he lost his salvation, by his deeds, I believe he was not a Christian, and that he never had been, even if he had memorized soo much scripture, without Christ,he was vile, and without Christ we all were once vile. Pretty scary to remember that we were once on the same "level" as mass-murderers, etc. But you know when we sin we stoop down to that level, and w don't have to, it is much better if we would not.

[TheMainException]

I heard that if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you will lose your salvation forever, but everyone I've talked to doesn't know how to blaspheme the HS.

[TheMainException]

In the context that was given, I believe some had been accusing Jesus of performing supernatural works via the power of Satan. Jesus said that whoever blasphemes Him may be at some point forgiven, but whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit (such as these men did by attributing the work of the Spirit to Satan) will not be forgiven.

I truly do not believe that a person who has been born again can speak against the Spirit in this manner.
absolutely

[angelnstix]

I believe once saved always saved. We will all sin..we are not perfect and God knows that.

[signwonder]

The Parable of the sower written about in the gospels show a parallel to those that come to know Christ but then die, are choked out by the cares of life and become usless amoung thorns and thistles. Only a few grow up to mature and produce fruit. These are those in Christ (John the 17th chapter) who have remained plugged into the vine which is Jesus. Like anyone born into a family there can be a divorce of child from the family, the child can be taken away by the courts, and the child can be adopted by another family. We alone choose where we will end up. We change our name via marriage, via official name changes and in many other ways to disenfranchise ourselves from our family today. To think that anyone would just remain in God's family while they give aliegiance to the devil through thier actions is ludicrist. The Bible says that if we keep His commandments we are His. One prayer of salvation does not make you keep all of God's commandments. Only a willingness to remain in the vine which is Christ Jesus can we be sustained and continue in God's Kingdom. In John 17 it says that those that do not remain and do not produce fruit are cast off and burned. Can it be any clearer?

[lilchristiangurl]

my friend was saved for a day and the next day she went back to being an Aetheist

[Jennifer615]

I would LOVE to believe the "once saved, always saved" doctrine, but to be on the safe side, I don't believe it. I'm worried that I might become complacent and when I stand before God, find out its not true and be in trouble!!!

[Jennifer615]

A few people here said that if you backslide, you were never saved in the first place. I completely disagree. People backslide for many reasons, mainly selfishness. I have backslidden 3 or 4 times in the 21 years I've been a Christian. The first time I was quite young and I thought I was missing out on "fun", and the rest of the times because I thought God had let me down, because He didn't answer my prayers the way I wanted him to. It was all due to selfishness.

However, the parable of the Prodical Son rings true here. God has always accepted me back (I hope). We are all sinners, and God's grace is awesome!

[angelnstix]

A few people here said that if you backslide, you were never saved in the first place. I completely disagree. People backslide for many reasons, mainly selfishness. I have backslidden 3 or 4 times in the 21 years I've been a Christian. The first time I was quite young and I thought I was missing out on "fun", and the rest of the times because I thought God had let me down, because He didn't answer my prayers the way I wanted him to. It was all due to selfishness.

However, the parable of the Prodical Son rings true here. God has always accepted me back (I hope). We are all sinners, and God's grace is awesome!
I agree with you about the backsliding. God knows we are NOT perfect. Gods grace is awesome indeed!! And God DOES accept you back...always!!! God bless!:angel:

[I_are_sceptical]

My view on the possibility of losing one's salvation is based on what happened to Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10. If they were still saved when they died, they went straight to Heaven to be with Jesus. That's hardly a punishment. I think the story is symbolic rather than literal, and refers to their spiritual deaths. IMO they decided keeping the money was more important to them than remaining faithful to Christ.

[Moros]

No. That's like assuming that once you are "forgiven" that you are forgiven forever, IE that once you're "saved" that you can't sin again.

[Truly Blessed]

My 2 cents, OSAS, If I could lose my salvation my sinning what would happen in this situation. granted it is simplistic on purpose. I have truely excepted the Lord as my savior, but on my death bed I sin. I say something bad about someone. Now since sin is sin and none worse then the other in the eyes of the Lord; and I have not had time to repent but died and since God cant have sin within heaven where would that leave me? In theory if one could lose thier salvation, then I would go to hell because I didnt repent prior to dying. No I didnt read all 83 pages of thread. I did read some.

[Truly Blessed]

my friend was saved for a day and the next day she went back to being an Aetheist
The problem I see here is did your friend just speak words and not mean them. Only God knows. Also, If your friend was truely saved everybody goes backward sometime during thier life - maybe 1 step or more. Only time will tell - and that may mean waiting until we see the Glory of God.

[Droobie]

What about 'apostacy'? A total rejection of God?

[DanielJamesSimon]

No. That's like assuming that once you are "forgiven" that you are forgiven forever, IE that once you're "saved" that you can't sin again.

I believe that once you are saved you can't sin again. Let me clarify. 1 John chapters 1 and 2 (along with other places which I can't recall) shed a bit of light, I believe. 1 John 1:7: "but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

1 John 2:5: "but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected..."

Love of God? 1 John 1:5: "And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."

Of course we still physically sin. I know I do every single day. But spiritually, we are perfect once we are saved. This does not mean we ignore works and so forth, we must still strive to not sin, we must still strive to love; but in God's eyes, our sins have been made as white as snow (I always forget which verse in Isaiah that is from).

So once saved, always saved; once forgiven, always forgiven; once sins washed away, forever sins gone.

Backslides? I believe that genuinely saved Christians can go through "down periods" or whatever. I also believe many people who thought they were Christians probably weren't to begin with. It is a very tough issue, but one that I'm sure God is in complete control of.

My Biblical basis for my belief in "once saved, always saved" is not that strong, as I have not studied it that extensively. I definitely believe "once forgiven, always forgiven" and that once your sins are clean, you do not sin spiritually in God's eyes anymore. This kind of leads to a "once saved, always saved" belief itself.

Besides, if your name is in the Book of Life, then it is in the Book of Life; if it is not, then it is not.

[RevSirBuz]

My view is this.. God calls all to be saved.. Tho not all hear, The Holy Spirit Convicts those who hear his voice of their sin, to come to Christ and be forgiven for their their sin.

To say one could loose their salvation would also state that God made a mistake in giving it to you in the first place. I do believe one can back slide and return back into the world but if they are truly saved they will not remain in the world for they are paid for by the blood of christ, for only a saved person will continue to hear the voice of God calling, only a saved person will feel the convictions of the Holy Spirit. God will NOt let you stay in the world you have been paid for by the Blood of Christ.

Can a saved person go out and commit some terrible crime? I would say no because that person being in full knowledge of God's law would by no means make a deliberate act in complete disregard of what God says to NOT do, how ever I am in no position to decide who is saved or not that is not my job. A blood bought believer will seek christ and his ways not the ways of the world.

God is perfect and thus when he saves us we are a new creation and no longer live we have died in our sin and have been made alive in Christ anew.. the life we live in he body we live by faith in the Son of God who loved us and died for us.

To say one could lose their salvation would mean one would have to obtain it again and thus crucify Christ all over again.

How do we know when we have lost our salvation? How many sins must we commit? One sin makes us a law breaker and guilty thus deserving punishment. All sin is just as bad, there are no sins worse then the other. (Exluding Blaspheming of the Holy Spirit which a true believer can not commit).

Just my piece.. hey I could be wrong.. Only God knows the answer.. this is just my opinion.

[Droobie]

Hi RevSirBuz, welcome to CF!

So what you're saying is that those who claim they have been saved, have backslidden, then saved again were not really saved in the first place?!

[RevSirBuz]

Anybody can claim they are saved.. that doesn't make them that way however.. what would the definition of backsliding be? How far back does one need to go? How many sins would one need to commit?

I don't believe one can be saved again.. Salvation is not a light switch.. If one can loose their salvation and the regain it then I guess one could keep returning into the world every time they felt like it.. and then saying Oh lord please forgive me and then get saved and crucify Christ all over again... to years later when it gets rough repeat the cycle all over again etc etc

1JN 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

--
John summarizes what he has said. In v. 6 he stated that no one who "lives in him" can practice a life of sin. Here he adds that "no one who is born of God" or has "God's seed" in him can "continue to sin." Both elements are necessary for understanding John's theology of community. Believers must "live" in him. The Father in turn must live in the believers (3:24; 4:12; Jn 14:20; 17:21-23). If we do live in him, "we are removed" from life under the dominion of Satan. And if he lives in us, then our life will be his life in us and we will live even as he lived.

On the day of judgment when some seek salvation based upon their works Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:21-23). They were never known, that is, they were never saved although they appeared, from the human perspective, to be saved. Jesus says that His sheep will "never perish but have eternal life" (John 10:28). How can eternal life be eternal if it can be lost particularly when Jesus said that they will never perish. If they will never perish, then they can't lose their salvation. Also, Paul says that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38-39). I see these "divine perspective" type verses as giving us glimpses into the viewpoint of God. I see the other verses as being stated from a human perspective, that they appeared to be saved and then appeared to lose it (Gal. 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6). However, 1 John 2:19 says in dealing with antichrists, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us," (NASB). I see this verse saying two things: First, that if it appears that false teachers leave because they are not regenerated to begin with. In other words, if someone had salvation and then lost it, it was because they never were saved in the first place. Second, it says that if someone is saved, they will remain in the faith.

Just my Thoughts hehe

[Sheena_Va]

Anybody can claim they are saved.. that doesn't make them that way however.. what would the definition of backsliding be? How far back does one need to go? How many sins would one need to commit?

I don't believe one can be saved again.. Salvation is not a light switch.. If one can loose their salvation and the regain it then I guess one could keep returning into the world every time they felt like it.. and then saying Oh lord please forgive me and then get saved and crucify Christ all over again... to years later when it gets rough repeat the cycle all over again etc etc

1JN 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

--
John summarizes what he has said. In v. 6 he stated that no one who "lives in him" can practice a life of sin. Here he adds that "no one who is born of God" or has "God's seed" in him can "continue to sin." Both elements are necessary for understanding John's theology of community. Believers must "live" in him. The Father in turn must live in the believers (3:24; 4:12; Jn 14:20; 17:21-23). If we do live in him, "we are removed" from life under the dominion of Satan. And if he lives in us, then our life will be his life in us and we will live even as he lived.

On the day of judgment when some seek salvation based upon their works Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you" (Matt. 7:21-23). They were never known, that is, they were never saved although they appeared, from the human perspective, to be saved. Jesus says that His sheep will "never perish but have eternal life" (John 10:28). How can eternal life be eternal if it can be lost particularly when Jesus said that they will never perish. If they will never perish, then they can't lose their salvation. Also, Paul says that nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38-39). I see these "divine perspective" type verses as giving us glimpses into the viewpoint of God. I see the other verses as being stated from a human perspective, that they appeared to be saved and then appeared to lose it (Gal. 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6). However, 1 John 2:19 says in dealing with antichrists, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us," (NASB). I see this verse saying two things: First, that if it appears that false teachers leave because they are not regenerated to begin with. In other words, if someone had salvation and then lost it, it was because they never were saved in the first place. Second, it says that if someone is saved, they will remain in the faith.

Just my Thoughts hehe
Truly a pleasure to read your posts. I agree wholeheartedly.
I, myself, until recently, thought I was saved when I was a little girl. I accepted the Lord into my heart and lived my life for him. My convictions werent very strong, as I was just a child, but I did all the things good little Christian girls should do. When I was a teen I went through an awful rebelious time, BUT always had the spirit of the Lord calling to me. At about 16 I guess, I did the 'rededication' thing. I cried out, fell to the alter, and begged forgiveness. Now as an adult, as I study the word, and truly know God on a personal level, I question whether I was really saved as a little girl, or was it when I was a teen? The beautiful thing is that I don't believe the exact moment of salvation matters. God wrote my name in His book and He will never let me go....even if at times I try to push Him away. He is always there, calling me back and waiting with open arms.
Praise God and Bless you all.

[stillblessed]

revelations 20 says that you can be blotted out of the book of life.,therefore,yes you can,if after being saved,you willfully sin the same sin over and over again,there is no remitance of that same sin. the word says that no drunkard,whoremonger,liar,will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[going_crazy_am_i_me2]

i believe its possable to be saved and then lose your salvation. God gives us the gift of salvation... and we take it, but sometimes when people tire of gifts they throw them away.

[rhemarob]

Is it possible to lose your salvation? Yes
Its it PROBABLE to lost your salvation? No
I think its very unlikely to ever lose your salvation but I couldn't completely rule it out.

[Neal]

YES, and I'm thankful for it! If it were up to me to keep my own salvation, I could never do it!

[FreeGrace]

YES, and I'm thankful for it! If it were up to me to keep my own salvation, I could never do it!:amen: :amen: :amen: I could not improve on the above.

Salvation by Grace alone praise God

[k]

voted "yes," but it was difficult to vote 'cause this question was strictly framed in a narrow Western view of what it means to be "saved." Salvation is both a moment and a process.

Peace

[Purified]

I'm not sure, I think it depends. You can be 'saved' and not actually be saved, if you know what I mean, and then go back on God. I think there are ways to loose your salvation.

But no matter what the answer is, everyone should live as if you could loose your salvation. I don't want to say that should be your motive, but saying you should always try your very best to avoid sin etc.

[Knightmare†]

well salvation depends from our acts...if we r saved once,and then fall in sins again,we will stop being saved...

[Hisbygrace]

I agree with Blackhawk. Jesus said that His children are held in His hand and He is held in the Father's hand and no one can snatch them away from the Father.

[Hisbygrace]

well salvation depends from our acts...if we r saved once,and then fall in sins again,we will stop being saved...
But thank God salvation does not depend on our actions. It is the free gift of grace from God through His Son Jesus Christ.

[Neal]

:amen: :amen: :amen: I could not improve on the above.

Salvation by Grace alone praise God
Whoa... a triple amen! Can't get much better than that! Yeah, I'm just thinking: the more we value our works in light of salvation, the less value God's grace becomes.

[waterbear]

I think free-will is retained after one comes to believe, and with free-will one is free to not-believe whenever. Faith isn't objective certainty (i.e. God exists as the sky is blue, if that were the case everyone would believe God exists as everyone [well almost everyone] believes the sky is blue).

[john14v6]

through God's grace we are saved

salvation cannot be earned, you can't lose what you didn't earn in the first place...Christ went to the cross ONCE for all of our sins. I fyou truly accept Jesus into your heart then you are eternally His.

[disciple73]

yes

[OneManSows]

Here is the issue in a nutshell. Being born into the family is an irreversible act in time. As you were born into your physical family, and cannot undo that, you cannot undo your spiritual birth into the family of God. You can be rebellious, you can run down to the courthouse, change your name, and claim you are not part of that family, but you will never be able to undo your birth no matter how hard you try to deny it. So too with God, you may turn your back in rebellion, but you can never undo the second birth.

There is sound evidence of this in scripture, and many have posted good verses in support of the truth that once a member of the family, truly a member of the family for all time. I like to point to John 3:18. "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (never) believed in the name of the Son of God."

What that is saying is, if you are not saved, you have NEVER been saved. That precludes the possibility of someone who is not saved from having ever been saved before. Either you've been born into the family of God or you haven't. This is no way to get unborn back out of the family of God and become lost again. God isn't a probation officer, He's a saviour. When He saves you, you're saved for all time.

That doesn't mean you won't get punished for future disobedience, but the punishment is never getting kicked out of the family. This is why it says in Hebrews 6 you can only experience the new birth/obtain salvation a single time; and why it says in I Corinthians that the rebellious child may have to pay for his rebellion with his mortal life, but his soul will be preserved.

BTW, there is only one unforgivable sin: refusing to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, also known as, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

[k]

Here is the issue in a nutshell. Being born into the family is an irreversible act in time. As you were born into your physical family, and cannot undo that, you cannot undo your spiritual birth into the family of God. You can be rebellious, you can run down to the courthouse, change your name, and claim you are not part of that family, but you will never be able to undo your birth no matter how hard you try to deny it. So too with God, you may turn your back in rebellion, but you can never undo the second birth.

There is sound evidence of this in scripture, and many have posted good verses in support of the truth that once a member of the family, truly a member of the family for all time. I like to point to John 3:18. "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (never) believed in the name of the Son of God."

What that is saying is, if you are not saved, you have NEVER been saved. That precludes the possibility of someone who is not saved from having ever been saved before. Either you've been born into the family of God or you haven't. This is no way to get unborn back out of the family of God and become lost again. God isn't a probation officer, He's a saviour. When He saves you, you're saved for all time.

That doesn't mean you won't get punished for future disobedience, but the punishment is never getting kicked out of the family. This is why it says in Hebrews 6 you can only experience the new birth/obtain salvation a single time; and why it says in I Corinthians that the rebellious child may have to pay for his rebellion with his mortal life, but his soul will be preserved.

BTW, there is only one unforgivable sin: refusing to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, also known as, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Why does Hebrews 6:4-6 make a very clear declaration that not only is it possible for people to fall away, but if they do, they CANNOT be brought back to repentance?

Peace

[MeekOne]

I believe the scriptures tell us that once we are saved we are always saved. I believe this with every fiber of my being. However, only God truly knows who is absolutely saved.:)

[El_Ayin]

No, once you are saved you can lose your salvation.

Remember Lot's wife. She was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah but she disobeyed God and it cost her her life.

[peggysue17]

yes and no. i choose the 2nd option cause, even though im baptist, i beleive that if you choose to not beleive in God anymore(though you know He's there) you can fall away from Christ. beleive me, i have a friend who has done so. Please pray for him his name is Ben Guthrie. thanks God Bless!

[MeekOne]

No, once you are saved you can lose your salvation.

Remember Lot's wife. She was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah but she disobeyed God and it cost her her life.Christ's grace of salvation is given in the new testament, that is what we are discussing here. The story to which you are referring is in the old testament, Genesis to be exact. This was long before Christ became the Son of Man and gave His life for our sins. Additionally, we are speaking of eternal life, not an earthly one. I do not believe you can lose your salvation once God has given you that gift.

See Ephesians 2:4-10
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I believe that once Jesus has given you this perfect gift, it is yours forever, hence the eternal value of it.

Can I get an .... :amen:

[john14v6]

Can I get an .... :amen:


:amen: I agree whole heartily :thumbsup:

[OneManSows]

Why does Hebrews 6:4-6 make a very clear declaration that not only is it possible for people to fall away, but if they do, they CANNOT be brought back to repentance?

PeaceRepentance is a change of mind, in this context, with regard to the person of God, and what He did on the cross. It cannot happen in a new way, as you've already experienced that. It's possible for communication to be cut off, i.e., backsliding, but that doesn't destroy or in any way undo the familial relationship brought about by birth. You can't get into the family brand new again, you're already there. You can have broken relationships in the family restored.

[HealingPower]

As a sexual abuse victim who touched in naughty :amen: ways by by pastor who did numerous good works for the community, such as collecting Christmas gifts for underprivileged children, group:groupray: child body waxings:help: , and conducting Christian Quiz Shows on local access cable, I once believed this man was a messenger of the Lord and could do no wrong. He, in my mind and in everyone elses' was undoubtedly saved!!!!!!! He was a saint:preach: in the eyes of many, but I soon came to realize that many people who associate with Christianity are homosexuals, who only act this way so that they can invade the lives of devout believers, such as myself. :pray:

[k]

Repentance is a change of mind, in this context, with regard to the person of God, and what He did on the cross. It cannot happen in a new way, as you've already experienced that. It's possible for communication to be cut off, i.e., backsliding, but that doesn't destroy or in any way undo the familial relationship brought about by birth. You can't get into the family brand new again, you're already there. You can have broken relationships in the family restored.
Not sure I understand the "...change of mind, in this context..." argument because verse 6 states "...if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

It seems rather clear it is referring to a public arena, not an individual's mindset, or backsliding.

In regards to the above verse, if one has a "broken" relationship w/ Christ, how is that a relationship at all?

Peace

[mrsir]

once saved always saved the bible says so

[d-11even]

I think that if you did something bad after being saved, you'll go back to where you started.

[frumanchu]

I think that if you did something bad after being saved, you'll go back to where you started.
So, you believe that if you die before you get a chance to repent of whatever sin or sins you've committed since the last time you repented, then you're outta luck?

[gsammo79]

what about king Saul,..it says the spirit of God changed his heart, he's was a new person,..and at the end of his reign as king,..the scriptures say that he was forsaken and an unclean spirit was sent to torment him. If there is a better example of salvation and loosing it i don't know where it's at in the bible

[MeekOne]

what about king Saul,..it says the spirit of God changed his heart, he's was a new person,..and at the end of his reign as king,..the scriptures say that he was forsaken and an unclean spirit was sent to torment him. If there is a better example of salvation and loosing it i don't know where it's at in the bible
Christ's grace of salvation is given in the new testament, that is what we are discussing here. The story to which you are referring is in the old testament. This was long before Christ became the Son of Man and gave His life for our sins. Just want to clarify that this is the salvation we are discussing. :)

[rahul_sharma]

once saved always saved :)

Thank u, Lord Krishna

[no_worries]

Tough question.. God doesn't turn his back on us if we backslide a little, thank goodness. But if a Christian makes the decision to stop following God then I think they can loose their salvation.

2 Peter 2:20-21
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

[WITNESS8]

The Bible says that if the righteous (which in this case would be the saved) turns and does evil (backsliding), his righteousness is remembered no longer(not once saved always saved).


In HIM

[4_Given]

Yes, I do believe that once saved, your always saved!!!:thumbsup:
That's what I've been taught.
One thing is for certain, we may walk out of the will of God from time to time, but God will never walk away from us.:amen:

[sictransitgloriamundi]

by truth we are saved...and the truth is found in god...
here is a small passage of some relevance to the subject...it was written by Dr. Desmond Ford.

By Grace Alone

We are saved by grace alone received through faith (trust) alone because of the work of Christ alone as revealed in the only infallible teacher of truth - the Word of God alone.

The moment we believe, Christ's own perfect righteousness is imputed to us and remains ours for all our days provided we continue to look to Him, despite a hundred or a thousand failures.

At all stages of our experience we are saved by faith alone, though the faith that saves is never alone. We are not saved by faith plus works but by a faith that works. For the whole truth compare Galatians 5:6; Galatians 6:15 and 1 Corinthians 7:19. Even on Judgment Day we will be saved by faith alone though our works will testify to the reality of that faith despite their infinite imperfections.

The gospel is the sweetest melody from human lips, "the good, glad and merry tidings that makes a man's heart to sing and his feet to dance."

[AdJesumPerMariam]

No, OSAS is not biblical
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

[BibleQuizzinChika]

the "once-saved-always-saved theory" doesn't make sense if u think about it....

say i'm 20 years old and I get the holy ghost, speaking in other tongues as the spirit gives the utterance, accepted Jesus in my heart, I love God with all my heart, I'm bound for Heaven. Then when I'm 25, I stop coming to church, I start going to bars, cussing peoplez out, wearing stuff that doesn't pertain to holiness, ect.

So, in this predicament, I can just tell myself, "ya know what? I accepted Jesus in my heart 5 years ago, so I'm saved. It doesn't matter what I do."

nope, nada- we must live our lives to shine for Christ, and continue walking with Him in order to make it to Heaven. John 3:5 tells us how we must be born of the water and the spirit in order to enter into the Kingdom of God. Are we being born of the spirit when we do things of the world? no!!

so... we must obey the bible at all times. and.... like it says, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. so when we sin, his mercies are available for us! though we're unworthy, he's supplied our every need.

we can't judge, so no one can say that if we had committed a sin and didn't repent of it when the trumpet sounded, that we wouldn't go to Heaven. God's decision is all that will matter in the end, but we always wanna be ready for Him!!
~karissa

[Soulikz]

ibelieve you can backslide and lose salvation, which is a scary thought

[SmEaGoL!]

Yes that's what I have been told.

[kissybug27]

Hi :wave:

I believe that salvation is like a newborn. If you don't take care of it and help it to grow and mature then you will loose it. This belief about once saved always saved bothers me alot.

My grandfather (Pa Pa ) drank all his life. A few years before his death the community church pastor payed him a visit. The pastor was baptist and it was a baptist that believe once saved always saved. I say this because not all baptist believe this. He took my Pa Pa to church and Pa Pa said he got saved. I thought this was great till one day I went to visit him and he was sitting in his yard drinking a beer. I said to him I thought you were going to church and stuff and he said that drinking was now ok because he was saved and once you give you heart to Jesus then you can't sin. I tried to talk to him about it but it didn't seem to help. It bothered me that this man, a man of God, had convinced my Pa Pa that he was saved and could no longer sin.

I believe this notion is a tool of satan. He puts it into our heads and it sounds really good.....man If im saved and have a weak moment im still ok with God.....I think that alot of people don't repent their sins after salvation because of this belief and that is not a good thing. Getting saved and repenting is for your passed sins not your future sins. It's a good thing when you pray each day to ask God to forgive anything that you have done even if you don't know of anything because even a bad thought about someone is a sin.

I say this all in peace and am just expressing my views.

Love in Christ †††

Chrissie

[MeekOne]

I find it truly amazing how the declaration of Christ was found in the Old Testament (Acts 15:16-18 (http://javascript<b></b>:popUplink('lookup.php?book=Acts&chapter=15&verse=16-18'))) and God knew it from the beginning. With further study, I found it in Amos 9:9-15 (http://javascript<b></b>:popUplink('lookup.php?book=Amos&chapter=9&verse=9-15')) and it means the same thoughts. It also adds that once we are planted in salvation, we will no longer be pulled from it, saith the Lord thy God. Another complete statement from our Lord that once you are saved, you are saved forever.

This does not give one a license to sin, because your rewards in Heaven will be few. However if you do sin after truly being saved, God does not let go of you because of it.

Ephesians 2:4-10

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Holy Spirit helps us from falling into sin. However, some people who believe they have been saved, truly have not, and they fall into sin. Thus never really repenting and turning from their sinful ways.

The one unforgivable sin is to blasphemy the Holy Spirit, other than that, it holds firm that once you are saved, you are saved forever.

May you have the grace of Jesus Christ in your heart forever.

[Animerulz400]

Do you believe that once you are saved, you are always saved? Please choose an option from the poll above...
Perosnally I don't think it's in Gods eyes or any of the options up there. I just think when something good happens to you it just does.

[chosen_boss]

Truthfully, I don't know the correct answer to that question, nor do I care to risk it and find out. When I get to heaven, I'll have to ask.

[The Smiling One]

I voted no, you cannot lose your salvation. Salvation is a free gift. Once you accept a gift, do you expect the Giver to come along and say, 'I want it back now, because you are not using it right' ?
If you can lose it, why did Jesus die? The Scriptures say that, He died once and for all. He died for all people and for all sins. For all people...they just have to believe. He died for all sins...past present and future. I'm saved; when I sin, the Father sees me as if I'd never sinned. He sees me through the precious blood of His Son. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission, only the Lord Jesus was perfect enough to satisfy the Father's requirements for perfect justice. We don't have to sacrifice animals every year, like the Hebrews did, because Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world.

The Bible doesn't say, the sins of the world for one day or a week. It says the sins of the world, meaning past, present and future. If a murderer or child molester gets saved and then commits murder or molestation, they are still saved. God may decide to take them home, but yes, they would go to Heaven.

As for the Bible question... You need to study the different versions and find out what verses have been changed or even, completely removed, because"they don't belong". The newer versions change words to suit the publishers. For instance...

In the Random House Webster's College Dictionary...reprobate means: a depraved or wicked person 2. a person who is beyond hope of salvation 3. morally depraved.
It does not say anything about being disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5
A newer version says, disqualified. The KJV says, reprobates, meaning depraved or wicked people. I don't see the connection or similarity between depraved and disqualified.

[The Smiling One]

As an add on to my previous note...

I'm not saying that God doesn't punish me if I sin, He does, believe me, He does. I mean that when Satan is accusing me, Jesus steps up and says, she's one of Mine, Father. I won't go to Hell when I die, but I do get corrected when I'm bad.

[Mimi]

No of course not. That would mean you would get away with so many things.....That is insane! But that is my personal opinion :P

[fashionably_lonely]

One distinction might be between losing one's salvation..after all the prodigal son was STILL a son. However, you can lose rewards based on your actions.

[eaglex]

I have always belived that once saved always saved. No one can lose their salvation.

[MeekOne]

Hebrews 11:1 gives another definition of faith:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We are saved by grace, through faith, correct?? Biblical saving faith is the belief in the saving work that Christ did on the cross, that he was resurrected, and that His death pays the price for our sin. It is all about Christ, not us. I believe when someone claims that one can lose their salvation, they are focussing more on themselves than on God. Let us ask ourselves, can you save yourself? Anyone who believes in scripture would most likely say no, we can't save ourselves.

Since that is the case, why do some of His children insist that we can or cannot keep ourselves saved? If we cannot save ourselves, how can we keep ourselves saved? The logical conclusion of someone who does not believe that once we are saved we are always saved is that we have to work to keep our salvation. Now, if you did not work to receive it, why on earth would anyone believe that you have to work to keep it? It is just not logical. Just had to say that. Have a very blessed day in the Lord, and I pray that Jesus be the light in your heart always. :prayer:

[Sweet Pea]

yes

[jcright]

I believe in once saved always saved. We already know that we have a sin nature, would we lose it everytime we sin? This loss/recovery would be daily. What about the sins that you aren't currently aware of? What happens if you die before you can repent for your sin? Nope, once saved always saved. I know I can back it up with scripture, but I'm too lazy to find it right now. PM me if you'd really like to know.

[FreeGrace]

Hebrews 11:1 gives another definition of faith:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We are saved by grace, through faith, correct?? Biblical saving faith is the belief in the saving work that Christ did on the cross, that he was resurrected, and that His death pays the price for our sin. It is all about Christ, not us. I believe when someone claims that one can lose their salvation, they are focussing more on themselves than on God. Let us as ourselves, can you save yourself? Anyone who believes in scripture would most likely say no, we can't save ourselves.

Since that is the case, why do some of His children insist that we can or cannot keep ourselves saved? If we cannot save ourselves, how can we keep ourselves saved? The logical conclusion of someone who does not believe that once we are saved we are always saved is that we have to work to keep our salvation. Now, if you did not work to receive it, why on earth would anyone believe that you have to work to keep it? It is just not logical. Just had to say that. Have a very blessed day in the Lord, and I pray that Jesus be the light in your heart always. :prayer:
A most excellent description Meek One may the Lord continue to bless and keep you by His Grace Alone.:wave:

[Saruman]

I believe you can turn back to your old ways if not careful. Jesus still loves you, and will forgive, but you can't just get saved and do evil things without repenting and go to heaven. That's what I believe...

[Godjunkie]

When you become truly saved then you have wholeheartedly asked Jesus to come into your life. If you truly meant it, Jesus leaving you will never happen, and any sins that you do commit will be immediately wiped off your record because that is what he died for. That is why when the Bible says we will face judgement those who are saved will have nothing on thier record to be judged.

[Animerulz400]

How do you know when you're saved??? That is a question I'd like to here answered. Because I don't hink you really can be 'saved'.

[statrei]

How do you know when you're saved??? That is a question I'd like to here answered. Because I don't hink you really can be 'saved'.More directly, what does it mean to be saved. It is a term that is used often but I don't think most people know what it means. We don't even seem to know why we need to be saved.

[Lunzo]

More directly, what does it mean to be saved. It is a term that is used often but I don't think most people know what it means. We don't even seem to know why we need to be saved.
Just looking at the dictionary next to me, the first two definitions of save seem relevant.

1) To rescue from danger, harm or loss.
2) To keep safe; safeguard.

By putting our faith in Jesus we are saved from the fate we were all destined to - death, hell, eternal separation from God, the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is our fate because the Bible (and even just opening your eyes and looking around you) will tell you that no human is perfect and we have all disobeyed God and God will judge us for it.

Jesus also keeps us safe from harm. John 10:28-29 has been qutoed elsewhere in this thread. The gist is that once we know Jesus, no one can separate us from being saved. We are saved once and for all by him. :amen:

That said I voted that we can backslide.

I think the end of Hebrews 10:26-39 kind of suggests this. I mean Christ died once and for all, so if you accept him then you're right with God. But on the other hand if you have known Christ and turned away then how insulting to God is that?

I think following Christ is an ongoing decision. It isn't just one magic decision and suddenly you're saved for good. Nothing can stop you from being saved, apart from you willfully deciding to reject Jesus and turn away.

How do you know when you're saved??? That is a question I'd like to here answered. Because I don't hink you really can be 'saved'.
Then why do you have Christian displayed as your religion? Being Christian is about being saved by having faith in Jesus. Christian means follower of Christ and if you follow him then you are saved. It isn't about whether you go to church or not, or whether your parents are Christian or where you live.



N.B: I'm not sure how well thought out some of the above is. Feel free to PM me or comment on this thread

[Animerulz400]

How do you know? That is a good question that I can't answer.

[Ceccia]

I couldn't vote. I do believe that we can choose to give up our salvation, but I don't think backsliding is what does it. If salvation comes through faith in who Christ is and what He has done, not through works, then I believe that it is not by works that salvation is lost, (i.e. "one sin too many") but by the choice to remove our faith in Who He is. To say that we CANNOT choose to stop believing, is to say that upon salvation our free will is removed from us. To say that if a person chooses to stop believing, then they were never really saved to begin with, is a copout IMO.
I couldn't have said it better myself. :)

[Ceccia]

If backslidden are still saved, where is the motivation to rededicate???"

Having backslidden, I can answer that with 100% certainty. The "motivation" comes when God speaks to your heart, even in its current far-from-God state, and you wake up and listen...and you realize that though you may still be saved and God has not forsaken you...you realize that you are grieving Him and letting Him down, not living for someone who has done so much for you. And slowly but surely you begin to turn back and renew your relationship and walk with God.

It made me feel so much worse, to know that God hadn't given up on me or disowned me despite all that I was thinking and doing that was against Him. That realization of unconditional love even though I didn't deserve any such thing...that realization truly made me sorry for how I was living and what I'd done.

[Hadron]

Then why do you have Christian displayed as your religion? Being Christian is about being saved by having faith in Jesus. Christian means follower of Christ and if you follow him then you are saved. It isn't about whether you go to church or not, or whether your parents are Christian or where you live.

I once believed that I was saved, but then when I really was saved, I realized that I wasn't before. :P (Senator Kerry wrote that for me)
If there is doubt and pain in your heart and haven't gone through a remaking previously, you are probably not. If there is no doubt and you have been remade and you can't live that sinful life anymore, then you are indeed saved.
Some people believe themselves to be Christian, but they are still seeking. I would probably call that pre-Christian, so hence, Christian icons are displayed and doubt is expressed.
Can you renounce God? I'm sure you could, but why would you want to, once your eyes are opened and you know the truth?

~Pen

[statrei]

Just looking at the dictionary next to me, the first two definitions of save seem relevant.

1) To rescue from danger, harm or loss.
2) To keep safe; safeguard.

By putting our faith in Jesus we are saved from the fate we were all destined to - death, hell, eternal separation from God, the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is our fate because the Bible (and even just opening your eyes and looking around you) will tell you that no human is perfect and we have all disobeyed God and God will judge us for it.

Jesus also keeps us safe from harm.