Are you Anglo-Catholic?

[gtsecc]

Are you Anglo-Catholic?
Yes

Do you go to an Anglo-Catholic parish?
Yes

Where do you attend?
The Church of the Holy Communion in Charleston, SC

[RobNJ]

Yes



Yes



Grace Episcopal, Westwood NJ
:wave:

[Songspinner]

Yes

Yes

St Michael and All Angles (winnipeg, manitoba, Canada)

[TomUK]

This probably sounds really dumb, but could you could just define high an anglo-catholic differes from a high Anglican, and how a high anglican differs from a broad anglican, and you've guessed it, how a broad anglican differs from a low anglican. They are terms used so frequently that i often find myself describing my leanings across the whole spectrum in an entire day. Thanks :)

[gtsecc]

I bet PaladinValar will pop in here and give us a better definition. As far as I know, you could be low Church and Anglo-Catholic or High Church yet not Anglo-Catholic.

[Songspinner]

Anglo-catholic was born out of the Oxford movment as I understand it. I sure someone can give better details but it started as a call to the church to return to its roots as it had become corupt. The whole thing was very messy, priests being thrown into jail for putting water in the wine, and it became quite comman to have hecklers in a service. But they persivered and became todays anglo-catholics.

[Wigglesworth]

Why do they put water in the wine?

[Songspinner]

old jewish tradition...to make sure no one gets drunk off the wine (for those big gulpers I guess), but more so the water reminds us of our baptism.

[benedictine]

Yes.

Partyly (More of a broad to high parish, but with our interim rector, we're moving dangerously low)

St. Michael and All Angel's, Upper South Carolina.

[TomUK]

old jewish tradition...to make sure no one gets drunk off the wine (for those big gulpers I guess), but more so the water reminds us of our baptism.

I've always been taught that it shows us that when Christ's side was pierced it was not only blood that flowed, but water.

[gtsecc]

I've always been taught that it shows us that when Christ's side was pierced it was not only blood that flowed, but water.Yes.
But, I don't think thta is just an Anglo-Catholic thing. When I was an acolyte at a broad Church, we also did that.

[julian the apostate]

yes to anglo-cath

yes to parish being anglo-cath

trinity episcopalian in orange

[UberLutheran]

Are you Anglo-Catholic?
I practice reverencing the altar, genuflection, use of incense, pray the Rosary, and follow devotions according to the liturgical calendar with liturgical prayer candles and votives. We have a large crucifix on our living room wall, surrounded by twelve smaller crosses. I can recite the Mass in English, German, and Latin. Does that count? ;)

Do you go to an Anglo-Catholic parish?
Not so much "high" as "progressive". Inclusivity and meaningful worship is VERY important at my parish.

Where do you attend?
Holy Cross Lutheran (ELCA), Austin, TX (where we had ten inches of rain today!)

[Wiffey]

I've always been taught that it shows us that when Christ's side was pierced it was not only blood that flowed, but water.
Very true. We Orthodox also mix water in with the wine for Holy Communion.

[julian the apostate]

uberlutheran<<<I practice reverencing the altar, genuflection, use of incense, pray the Rosary, and follow devotions according to the liturgical calendar with liturgical prayer candles and votives. We have a large crucifix on our living room wall, surrounded by twelve smaller crosses.


in spite of the fact that you are obviously quite insane, i think you are onto something

(if all lutherans were like you , i would probably be lutheran today)

one day the episco and lutheros and ocos will be some unified western equivalent of the orthodox only more western or something

liberal, creedal, charismatic, apostolic and of course liberal


much bells and whistles and incense and beauty to keep people too busy worshipping and creating to make laws for each other

and no theology will be allowed unless it is in poetic verse and preferrably sung

mystic of wittenburg , pray for us

[AveMaria]

(I'm afraid I'm about to give a stereotypical Anglican answer).

I, personally, am fairly but not fully A/C.

My current parish is not explicitly A/C, but it is A/C friendly. Most of the more A/C leaning folks tend to gravitate towards the Sunday Rite I and the Choral Complines services.

And I'm also in Austin, TX (Waving at UberLutheran - got a canoe? We need it, with all this rain!), and I'm a member at St. David's Episcopal.

[Songspinner]

St. Michael and All Angel's, Upper South Carolina.
:wave: Oh a fellow Angel!!!:angel:

aS for the Wione and water...doesn't it also have something to do with the merging of the two identities of Christ, God and Man? Or an I just suffering from Symbology overload?

Now I get Anglo catholic, and Hight Anglican, and Low anglican...Does Broad just come somewhere in the middle?:confused:

[RobNJ]

Now I get Anglo catholic, and Hight Anglican, and Low anglican...Does Broad just come somewhere in the middle?:confused:
And I Quote:
" Broad Church One of three popular designations to define the style of worship in a particular Episcopal church. "Broad church" worship is vaguely midway between low andhigh, and may or may not include elaborate liturgy, incense, and/or sanctus bells. A generation ago, an irreverent saying defined the three styles of Episcopal worship as follows: "High and crazy; broad and hazy; low and lazy." ":liturgy:

[CSMR]

A Luthero-Catholic?! Whatever shall we have next!

No, no St. Ebbe's Church, Oxford (when I'm in England)

[CSMR]

Now I get Anglo catholic, and Hight Anglican, and Low anglican...Does Broad just come somewhere in the middle?:confused:
Anglo-Catholic - well, we know what that is
High - the same, although sometimes referring to a style more than the substance of Catholicism
Low - Protestant/Evangelical
Broad - Liberal

I think.

[PaladinValer]

I am a Anglo-Catholic

I go to a Broad Church parish, St. John's Episcopal Church (Canandaigua, NY)

And CSMR, you're totally wrong; I know conservative broad and high churchers and I know liberal low churchers

[AveMaria]

So, the moral of the story is that Anglicans are mighty tricky to categorize and label? ;)

[Diane_Windsor]

TomUK,

"High Church" and "Low Church" refer more to the styles of worship. High Church is much more formal (i.e. lot's of "smells and bells") while low church is less formal. Here is an article (http://www.cresourcei.org/lowhighchurch.html), and here is Webster's definition of "High Church (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=high+church)" and "Low Church (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=low+church)".

Anglo-Catholic refers to theology. Like the Greek Orthodox, Anglo-Catholics are very theologically close to Roman Catholics. As another poster stated above Anglo-Catholicism grew out of the Oxford Movement. I googled "Oxford Movement (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22oxford+movement%22)", and got a variety of links that you might want to check out. I also googled "John Henry Newman (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22John+henry+newman%22)", who was a prominent member of the movement.

Are you Anglo-Catholic?
I'm not even Anglican :P

Do you go to an Anglo-Catholic parish?
Nope, but I did visit one this Sunday :)

Diane

[CSMR]

Normally high and low refers to doctrine rather than style. It can refer to style and then you can have all sorts of combinations. I haven't seen broad church refer to anything else than liberal or at least non-conservative.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd01451.htm
http://www.victorianweb.org/religion/brdchrch.html

[CSMR]

Hi, Diane_Windsor: I didn't see your post, and my flat contradiction is not intentional! :)

[AveMaria]

I've always heard high, low, and broad used to refer more to style than doctrine. I wonder if there are regional differences in the usage of these terms?

[ahab]

Sorry to be awkward but I belong to the church as in the body of believers which is neither high or low. The style of seervice at my local Anglican church is I guess, looking at the definitions, from quite low to extremely low.



This Anglican area seems to be dominated by anglo catholics.:)

[wackyjo]

what's anglo-catholic?

[AveMaria]

Anglo-Catholicisism (short for Anglican-Catholicism) came from the Oxford movement of the early 1800s, which was an attempt to undo some of the influence of the Protestant Reformation and restore the Church of England to its more Catholic roots. . . roots that were seen by many as being heavily grounded in Medieval Catholicism.

Anglo-Catholic Anglican parishes have a more Catholic style of worship, clergy are more likely to prefer being called Father Doe (or Mother Doe), as opposed to John or Joan. Worship is highly sacramental. Many Anglo-Catholics practice Marian devotions. Anglo-Catholic parishes tend to be "high church" with a high emphasis on ritualism, vestments, incense, candles, and of course, liturgy. You'll typically see more genuflection, kneeling, and members of the congregation crossing themselves.

Some Anglo-Catholics use very traditional Catholic terminology - 'Mass' instead of 'Eucharist' or 'Communion' for example. Many pray the rosary. Many feel much more closely identified with the Roman Catholic Church (or Vatican Catholic, if you prefer that phrase) than the various Protestant churches.

There are, however, some "low church" Anglo-Catholic parishes out there. I've never attended services at one, so I can't speak for them - perhaps someone will come along who can?

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

They exist, but they're rarer than hens' teeth. If you want a stylistically low but theologically catholic church you're much more likely to find it on the Vatican side, since Vatican II...

What am I? Affirming Catholic.

[Jason of Wyoming]

I didn't realize there were different types of Anglicans! I attended my local Episcopal Church on sunday, and I thought it was like a relaxed RCC mass, but now I guess they are "low church"?

Overall it was a nice service.

[gtsecc]

I didn't realize there were different types of Anglicans! I attended my local Episcopal Church on sunday, and I thought it was like a relaxed RCC mass, but now I guess they are "low church"?

Overall it was a nice service.If it was lower than your average RCC Mass, it was really really low.
Even our low Church Anglicans are higher than your typical RCC Mass.

[julian the apostate]

gtsecc<<<Even our low Church Anglicans are higher than your typical RCC Mass.

i wouldnt say that at all where i am from,, southern california,

i attend early am rite 1 spoken mass every now and then and it is much more low, laid back or whatever than any catholic mass i have been to (baptized roman catholic) (i like the service a lot however and would no way criticize it)

the rite 2 mass i usually go to is more like a roman catholic mass, except they have a better choir hymnal organist ,, oh and better homilies

[Jason of Wyoming]

If it was lower than your average RCC Mass, it was really really low.
Even our low Church Anglicans are higher than your typical RCC Mass.
Really? Could you explain further?

[gtsecc]

Really? Could you explain further?Anglican services tend to be higher than RCC services.
We tend to use one more scoop of inscence than they do.
That is about what one can generalize.

[gtsecc]

If you saw a group of folks parading around the Church with the Monsterance, you would think it was the Roman Catholics, but it is more likely to be the Anglo-Catholics. If you want to hear a Latin Mass, a Tridentine Mass, or a full Requiem, you will likely have to go to the Episcopal Church.

[murron]

I wonder where I fit in...
We are (and I'm guessing based on definitions I've read) that my parish is Anglo-Catholic. In fact, the priest mentioned being an Anglo-Catholic parish just this passed Sunday.
But, we do a full requiem and we are not Episcopal.
I have no idea if we are high, low, broad...by definition at least. We do High Mass every Sunday. Sooo, I'm guessing we are a high church (and if that doesn't sound really funny....).
As a former RC, I can say that I find the services to be exceptionally similar, but we don't go into Latin in our service, and at the RC church I attended, it was Latin.
We use the BCP of 1928.
Someone else can categorize me based on this info. lol - We are part of the TAC (traditional anglican communion).
edited to add:
we also cross ourselves several times during the service. I have to add, this discussion has been informative for me because I had assumed (yes, I know - bad bad bad) that most A/C-Episcopal churches were more informal. Partly, I guess I was thinking that the line was more between those in communion with the A/C and those not. It's interesting to see that such diversity exists within the A/C churches, too. Conversely, I don't know of any of the TAC churches which follow a 'low' mass - and, I know I'm odd, but it almost sounds wrong to call it 'low'. Is there some other term which doesn't sound quite so...uuhh...low?

[thejesusfish90]

If it was lower than your average RCC Mass, it was really really low.
Even our low Church Anglicans are higher than your typical RCC Mass.
Hmmm... I cant say I agree with that... I have been to a roman catholic order of marriage for my sister, and because our family is anglican we had the smallest possible amount of tradition in the service as possible... even still my congregation is far far far less traditional and lower than that service... The church you are using as a model for low churches (you obivously have visited a 'low' church, somewhere along to make a judgement on it) would not be low church by my standards.... I live in alow church doicese (sydney, Aus), and the majority of churches have an extremely reformational/charismatic theology/worship style for instance I have never seen anyone in the whole of my expeience in anglican churches around syndey cross themselves... Infact I didn't even know anglicans crossed themselves untill I visited my Great Aunts high church congregation in the country...and pentecostal praise music makes up a large part of our music repretouir (that cant be spelt correctly) .. However I do have limits to my 'lowness' ... at the moment the youth 7pm service is expreimenting with a couple of new ideas in the service... for instance next week we will all be sitting on bean bags and couches for the serivce... Which i think is taking the whole movement of my church into further informality a little to far, I think that laying down on bean bags makes people zone out for the sermon (mind you alot people in my congregation disagree with me)... and 2 sundays ago we had our personal confession time with god in the middle of a keith Green song (create in me a clean heart...) I thought that was alright, though I do prefer to be sitting down (we were standing because we were singing)... My church does however have the grannies service at 7:45 in the morning where they get the organ BCP 1975 and make the minister wear the proper anglican robest (none of the other services ever use them) However I would say that most of the churches in my diocese are almost identical (except for some minor theological differences) to the baptist churches... Martin TJ would be another person on these forums who goes to a similarly low church...



I wonder where I fit in...
We are (and I'm guessing based on definitions I've read) that my parish is Anglo-Catholic. In fact, the priest mentioned being an Anglo-Catholic parish just this passed Sunday.
But, we do a full requiem and we are not Episcopal.
I have no idea if we are high, low, broad...by definition at least. We do High Mass every Sunday. Sooo, I'm guessing we are a high church (and if that doesn't sound really funny....).
As a former RC, I can say that I find the services to be exceptionally similar, but we don't go into Latin in our service, and at the RC church I attended, it was Latin.
We use the BCP of 1928.
Someone else can categorize me based on this info. lol - We are part of the TAC (traditional anglican communion).
yeah I would call you an anglo-catholic congregation if you can identify closely with the catholic church.. as explained excellently by Ave Maria anglo-catholic's are just anglicans who want to get closer to their catholic roots... Which I can respect... But I personally prefer low church styles...

Your Right Ahab this forum is very heavily anglo-catholic... which surprised me.. before I went here I always thought that the majority of anglicans were low churches... Obviously i was wrong

Godbless all!

Your Brother in Christ

Chris

[thejesusfish90]

Oh and I nearly forgot my manners.... Welcome to the Anglican forums Murron.... Hopefully this may be a forum where you can grow as a christian and learn more of our faith... :waves:

YBIC

Chris

[murron]

Oh and I nearly forgot my manners.... Welcome to the Anglican forums Murron.... Hopefully this may be a forum where you can grow as a christian and learn more of our faith... :waves:

YBIC

ChrisThank you :)
I'm really thankful to have found this site!

[gtsecc]

I think US Parishes tend to be higher church than English parishes. This may be because of Seabury coming through Scotland which was "more Catholic."

[Jason of Wyoming]

Anglican services tend to be higher than RCC services.
We tend to use one more scoop of inscence than they do.
That is about what one can generalize.
Maybe I don't understand the differences between "high" and "low". Could you clarify? Is it in the liturgy itself, or is it a doctrinal thing?

[gtsecc]

Well, I think normally the high churches have more ceremony such as Aspergers, incense, and bells during the Holy Eucharist. As such, they tend to be more Catholic. Low churches tend to be more Calvinist. Of course, I believe there are exceptions to this.

[Jason of Wyoming]

Well, I think normally the high churches have more ceremony such as Aspergers, incense, and bells during the Holy Eucharist. As such, they tend to be more Catholic. Low churches tend to be more Calvinist. Of course, I believe there are exceptions to this.


Well then the Episcopal Church I attended on Sunday was definitely not a "high church" one. Probably more "middle church" I would guess.

[UberLutheran]

(I'm afraid I'm about to give a stereotypical Anglican answer).

I, personally, am fairly but not fully A/C.

My current parish is not explicitly A/C, but it is A/C friendly. Most of the more A/C leaning folks tend to gravitate towards the Sunday Rite I and the Choral Complines services.

And I'm also in Austin, TX (Waving at UberLutheran - got a canoe? We need it, with all this rain!), and I'm a member at St. David's Episcopal.

I go to Compline there every Sunday evening at 9 pm!

Lutheran music directors need time to worship, too... ;)

The water started coming in my front door this morning; but fortunately I had enough towels to keep it from coming past the door AND the rain let up after a half hour -- but not before we had another 2.5 inches of rain. Did you know we've gotten 15 inches of rain in the last ten days???

[UberLutheran]

A Luthero-Catholic?! Whatever shall we have next!

No, no St. Ebbe's Church, Oxford (when I'm in England)

I love Latin. I really do. It's too bad it's a dead language -- given my druthers, we'd revive it!

[CSMR]

I love Latin. I really do. It's too bad it's a dead language -- given my druthers, we'd revive it!
I'm with you on that, though my latin is very rusty!

[AveMaria]

I go to Compline there every Sunday evening at 9 pm!
Lutheran music directors need time to worship, too... ;)
Then our paths have probably crossed. I don't make it every Sunday, probably about once or twice a month.

The water started coming in my front door this morning; but fortunately I had enough towels to keep it from coming past the door AND the rain let up after a half hour -- but not before we had another 2.5 inches of rain. Did you know we've gotten 15 inches of rain in the last ten days???
Ugh! I am so sick of this rain!

[benedictine]

It's pouring where I am.

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Well, I think normally the high churches have more ceremony such as Aspergers


Aspergers is an autistic spectrum disorder. I'm confused ;)

[Songspinner]

Your Right Ahab this forum is very heavily anglo-catholic... which surprised me.. before I went here I always thought that the majority of anglicans were low churches... Obviously i was wrong


I have to say , as a member of th only Anglo-catholic Parish in my province, I'm pleasently supprised as well! :)

[gtsecc]

Maybe it is spelled, asperges?

[Colabomb]

Theologically yes, Liturgically no.

[RobNJ]

Maybe it is spelled, asperges? SYLLABICATION:as·per·ges http://www.bartleby.com/images/pronunciation/schwa.gif-spûrhttp://www.bartleby.com/images/pronunciation/prime.gifjhttp://www.bartleby.com/images/pronunciation/emacr.gifz NOUN: Roman Catholic Church The ceremony of sprinkling the altar, clergy, and congregation with holy water. ETYMOLOGY:From Latin asperghttp://www.bartleby.com/images/pronunciation/emacr.gifs (mhttp://www.bartleby.com/images/pronunciation/emacr.gif), you will sprinkle (me), the first words of the rite, second person sing. future tense of aspergere, to sprinkle.


This what you mean?

[pmcleanj]

before I went here I always thought that the majority of anglicans were low churches... Obviously i was wrong

I would speculate that the majority of Anglicans are broad-church. This is based on the churches I have attended when travelling (about six times a year on business and a couple times a year for pleasure), the different cities in which I have lived and attended church regularly, the research I did on the styles of different Anglican churches when I converted, and later when I moved to another city, the range of churches I have been invited to visit in the course of my liturgical dance ministry, and the Episcopalians I have shared with over the internet not only at CF, but on other e-lists and messageboards.

In other words, tolerably broad exposure to Anglican/Episcopal churches in Canada and the U.S.

Liturgically speaking churches that burn incense weekly, use the Ancient Office Hymns and sing the Daily Office *daily* -- or even have Vespers weekly -- are clearly in the minority. Churches that refuse to have candles in the sanctuary because of their pagan connotations and eschew the "corruption" of hymns in favour of plainchant are also in the minority.

[CSMR]

The situation varies from region to region. In Canada and the US there is a strong tradition of having many sects and denominations which creates pressure to move to one wing - if Anglican churches as a whole are somewhat broad/high in relation to other churches then a low church or low individual may want to identify with another denomination instead, which makes the Anglican churches even more broad/high as a whole.

In England I think low churches have a minority of physical churches but probably a majority of attendants since they tend to have big congregations. I don't know about Australia - I imagine it's similar. In Asia and Africa the situation is again very different.

[CSMR]

Most people in this Anglican forum are from the US/Canada; I wonder why that is? Perhaps most English Anglicans don't know how to use computers! :D

[PaladinValer]

Aspergers is an autistic spectrum disorder. I'm confused ;)
Not so!

I myself have Asperger's Syndrome and I can tell you that it is not a form of Autism. The only thing both have in common is a social disorder, and those with AS are not as "dysfuctional" as those with actual Autism. In addition, those with Autism tend to have low-average to low IQs, while those with AS tend to actually have high-average to high IQs.

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Not so!

I myself have Asperger's Syndrome and I can tell you that it is not a form of Autism. The only thing both have in common is a social disorder, and those with AS are not as "dysfuctional" as those with actual Autism. In addition, those with Autism tend to have low-average to low IQs, while those with AS tend to actually have high-average to high IQs.
I have it as well, PV, and in the UK certainly it's classed as being in the Autistic spectrum. It is distinguished from classic low functioning autism by the fact that the IQ tends to be higher than average, and by the considerably lesser element of dysfunctionality. Hence it is classed as a form of high-functioning autism.

However, it appears that there are several forms of high-functioning autism, and Asperger's syndrome is one form.
http://www.autism.org/asperger.html

You don't think someone with AS whose wife is an occupational therapist wouldn't know, eh? ;)

[PaladinValer]

Hmmm...in the 'States, it is it's own category. Not surprising perhaps since the study of it is still relativily in its infancy.

Glad to "meet" someone in the same 'boat though! :) I always wondered why you were so smart ;) :P