I have a Question, #1

[Matthan]

I have a series of questions I would like to post here for your comments. The first is this.

What do people mean when they say that Baptists (of which I am one) are legalistic?

Matthan <J><

[mesue]

That they are Pharisaical in their beliefs.

Like women must wear dresses to church, men cannot have beards.

[GreenEyedLady]

Well,..............Ha, It means we REALLY obey the bible.......and we walk the narrow path.
Some people don't like thier path so narrow, they like it wider.
That is how i see it.
But, I am what they would call a legalistic baptist.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

However, the term legalistic is often misused. Legalism SHOULD occur when one states, "if you don't do THIS(fill in blank) you will lose your salvation." Nowadays, people label churches as legalistic with the meaning that the church is too strict.
GEL

[lucypevensie]

When I think of legalism I think of rules. A legalistic church can be very sound in basic Biblical doctrine. But lots of times there are written or implied rules that are followed in order to be areally good Christian that can truly be pleasing to God. That is just how I see it.

I go to a Baptist church too. But another Baptist church nearby would say we are a bunch of liberal compromisers. Not all Baptists are considered legalists.

[P_G]

That they are Pharisaical in their beliefs.

Like women must wear dresses to church, men cannot have beards.

I never heard that about the men and beards thing Sue.

Isn't that funny because in some Annabaptist circles men should wear beards

Lev 21:5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

Hence why Amish and Old Order Mennonite Men all wear beards


PG (The bearded one)

[Gold Dragon]

However, the term legalistic is often misused. Legalism SHOULD occur when one states, "if you don't do THIS(fill in blank) you will lose your salvation."I find it interesting that you feel this is the only valid way to use the word legalism. Why is it that the only legalism that is valid is one where the consequence of breaking a rule is losing salvation and not something else?

I would say that legalism in faith is an understanding of faith that is primarily rule based. This is in contrast to understandings of faith that may be more belief based, identity based or action based, among others.

[GreenEyedLady]

I find it interesting that you feel this is the only valid way to use the word legalism. Why is it that the only legalism that is valid is one where the consequence of breaking a rule is losing salvation and not something else?

I would say that legalism in faith is an understanding of faith that is primarily rule based. This is in contrast to understandings of faith that may be more belief based, identity based or action based, among others.Here is what the 1828 dictonary used to say about it.

LEGAL'ISM, n.
1. Lawfulness; conformity to law.
2. In theology, a reliance on works for salvation.

Here is what we say now.
le·gal·ism
n.

Strict, literal adherence to the law or to a particular code, as of religion or morality.
A legal word, expression, or rule.
I think the word Legalistic is used WAY to easy by others. Some lable churches legalistic if the preach against what that person believes. If a preacher preaches that women should not preach, he could be labled legalistic even thought he is right and never once said that the woman preacher has no salvation.
I hope that makes sense.
GEL

[Gold Dragon]

Here is what the 1828 dictonary used to say about it.

LEGAL'ISM, n.
1. Lawfulness; conformity to law.
2. In theology, a reliance on works for salvation.

Here is what we say now.
le·gal·ism
n.

Strict, literal adherence to the law or to a particular code, as of religion or morality.
a legal word, expression, or rule.

So that one dictionary in 1828 set the definition of legalism in stone and all other theological uses of legalism are invalid? Dictionary definitions are created to help understand what the common usage of a word is. As spoken language changes (and all spoken languages change), usages also change. Old ones die, new ones come about and exisiting ones may change in their nuance.

So maybe in 1828, a common theological usage of legalism was about salvation issues. But that does not limit the usage of that word only to those contexts.

I think the word Legalistic is used WAY to easy by others. Some lable churches legalistic if the preach against what that person believes. If a preacher preaches that women should not preach, he could be labled legalistic even thought he is right and never once said that the woman preacher has no salvation.
I hope that makes sense.
GEL
I would label that preacher as one who could have done more work in looking into the literary, historical and cultural context of Paul's passages on this topic.

[Redguard]

If Baptists are legalistic, then I shudder to think what other churches are like.

I'm formerly a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church. I now attend a Baptist church and I feel like I've been completely liberated or something.

There are people who come to church wearing jeans, women wear pants, everything is SO laid back.

So again, if Baptists are legalistic, then I shudder to think what the other churches are like.

[labellady]

I think it differs church to church on how strict or laid back it is.

[GreenEyedLady]

If Baptists are legalistic, then I shudder to think what other churches are like.

I'm formerly a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church. I now attend a Baptist church and I feel like I've been completely liberated or something.

There are people who come to church wearing jeans, women wear pants, everything is SO laid back.

So again, if Baptists are legalistic, then I shudder to think what the other churches are like.
Try an independent fundimental baptist church. Those are the ones usually labled as legalistic.
GEL

[Tehillim 73]

I go to a southern baptist church, and it's not very legalistic at all. Many baptist chuches have that reputation. I have a friend who attends a different baptist church where she's looked down upon if she raises her hands in worship or anyhting like that. You just have to be careful about which church you choose, baptist or not, because many people get caught up in trying to earn their way into heaven. But, yeah, when I hear about a church being legalistic, I think of that - people getting confused and thinking that they for some reason have to try to earn their way into heaven.

[Matthan]

Thanks for all the input. I think I now have a better understanding if my new-found confusion does not get in the way. Sort of like sunshine on a cloudy day, I guess....

Matthan <J><