What are your thoughts on Rowan Williams?

[bigsierra]

104th Archbishop of Canterbury

Rowan Williams' views (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2048249.stm)
Liberal socially but conservative theologically

Backs separation of church and state

Accepting of homosexuality

Backs ordination of women priests

Has criticised any invasion of Iraq

Has criticised the war on terror

Says divorcees can remarry in church

[TomUK]

He is in a very difficult situation at a turbulent time in the Church of England. I don't agree with all his theologies and believe that a 'tougher' ABC should have been selected. However, i have been impressed with his handling of the ECUSA and regard him as man who is sympathetic to many viewpoints and who would never excessively impose his interpretation of the church on the communion. As has been said in previous threads however, don't confuse the role of the ABC with that of the Pope- they have very different powers.

[bigsierra]

Thanks :)

I'm just learning a bit. I didn't know much about the ABC or him before reading that article.

[ahab]

I do indeed have some strong critisim of his views actions and statements.

However my strong criticism is of his views, he himself takes on great responsibility and he deserves my prayers that God will bless him.

[Cjwinnit]

He is in a very difficult situation at a turbulent time in the Church of England. I don't agree with all his theologies and believe that a 'tougher' ABC should have been selected.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu was considered a whiole back apparently...

[SirTimothy]

Has criticised any invasion of Iraq

Has criticised the war on terror

Says divorcees can remarry in church

Umm... there's a *problem* with any of those?

Timothy

[AveMaria]

I tend to like him, and he makes a terrific teddy bear!

[benedictine]

I don't pairticularly like the man. I respect him becouse of his position, and becoues he has done an ok job dealing the the ECUSA, but I also hold TomUK's sentiments that a tougher person should have been selected.

[PaladinValer]

I absolutely love the current ABC and I'm glad we have him as our First-Among-Equals.

[CSMR]

104th Archbishop of Canterbury
Rowan Williams' views
Liberal socially
conservative theologically
Backs separation of church and state
Accepting of homosexuality
Backs ordination of women priests
Has criticised any invasion of Iraq
Has criticised the war on terror
Says divorcees can remarry in church
What does conservative theologically mean? The theologies around now have been around for centuries.
He gets 2 or 3 out of 7 for his personal views from me :). But he seems to understand how to separate his personal views from his sensitive role as leader of the church. He has some respect from evangelical bishops for holding the church together.
I don't think he has a particular role in lecturing on politics, any more than he has a role to lecture on economics, bioligy, or mathematics. Of course his opinions on politics are given exaggerated significance by the press.

[bigsierra]

Just to be clear, I didn't make up that list. It was in the news article I linked to.

[Inside Edge]

I think he's doing a good job, especially given the times.

[Cjwinnit]

I should point out, there is a difference between "seperation of church and state" and disestablishment.

[pmcleanj]

I should point out, there is a difference between "seperation of church and state" and disestablishment.
What do you consider that difference to be?

The constitutional ammendment that Americans refer to as "separation of church and state" literally is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So it seems to me that disestablishment is precisely what Americans mean when they refer to separation of Church and State. But the phrase was quoted from the BBC, if I recall. Does it mean something different in Britain, and which is it that +Rowan supports?

[Cjwinnit]

What do you consider that difference to be?

Does it mean something different in Britain, and which is it that +Rowan supports?

Disestablishment means there is no state-sponsored religion. "Seperation of church and state" means that no religious body may participate in a state function (For example, no religious education in schools, marriages in churches/mosuqes aren't recognized..)

England has an established religion (as does Russia, Greece..), the US is disestablished but there is no seperation of church and state. France has full seperation of church and state.

++Rowan is for disestablishment but that religion is still accepted by the state (so for example, marriages in churches are recognized etc..)

[PaladinValer]

Cjwinnit,

1. My US has a Seperation of Church and State (it sounded like you said otherwise; if you didn't mean it to sound like that, disregard this point).
2. Yet at the same time, any marriages done in a parish, church, synagogue, mosque, temple, grove of trees, etc, is fully recognized by the government. Clergy can apply for certification to, in the eyes of the government and nation, marry individuals. In this way, the Sep. of Church and State and disestablishmentarianism (oh how I've waited to use that word!) still hold in the US while giving clergy the power to officiate at weddings that will be recognized by the State, even though they are in a religious setting and done by a cleric and not a justice of the peace.

[Wigglesworth]

Separation of church and state, in the sense that France has it, does not technically exist in the United States, thankfully. Although Americans toss the phrase around as if it were the law written in stone, it is not expressly legislated. Some of those who are not of the church would love to see Christians separated from the functions of government. However, Christians are still allowed to participate in government, and our Constitution prohibits Congress from "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion. Our President can pray to God and say he believes in Jesus Christ right out in public. Our sessions of Congress begin with prayer by the chaplains of the House and the Senate. Our courthouses are decorated with plaques of the Ten Commandments, murals of Bible themes, and inscriptions of Scripture on the walls. For the time being, our pledge of allegiance to the national flag includes the recognition that we are "one nation, under God."

Although our Constitution also prohibits our Congress from legislating an establishment of religion, our judiciary has endeavored to establish secular humanism as the official religion of our country as a consequence of the restrictions they have placed on the free exercise of Christian religion. Thus, some of our courts, but not the Congress, have determined that our country should have not only a separation of church and state, but suppression of the church by the state. (Check out Courting Disaster (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591451426/qid=1100294734/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6852411-5648732?v=glance&s=books)by Pat Robertson if you're interested.)

An example is requiring a housing provider to rent an apartment to someone he finds objectionable in violation of his sincerely held religous beliefs. Another is the prohibition of declining to hire an employee because of the applicant's religion. Another is telling high school valedictorians they cannot offer prayer during their graduation address. The United States does, as a practical matter, have an established religion, but it is not a Christian one. Since we have failed to establish our faith in Jesus Christ, we have established the opposition by default.

One of the purposes of establishment in England, I believe, was to institutionalize unity in the church. Maybe we wouldn't have a gazillion different denominations in the U.S. with a "bishop" on every satellite network if the church were established here.

:doh: I like Rowan, by the way. I read a biography that included a recent photo of him sitting on a lawn with bare feet. The book and the photo made him seem much more earthy and human than I expected of an archbishop. As I understand, the office is alternately filled with a conservative and a liberal for balance and compromise. Maybe his successor will be a fire-and-brimstone heretic slapper.

The above wild rant does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the American people, the Anglican Communion, Christian Forums, or Major League Baseball. Please do not let this derail the thread, and, although unrepentent, I apologize to the original poster. Chastise me in a new thread if necessary. :)

[Songspinner]

104th Archbishop of Canterbury

Rowan Williams' views (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2048249.stm)
Liberal socially but conservative theologically

Backs separation of church and state

Accepting of homosexuality

Backs ordination of women priests

Has criticised any invasion of Iraq

Has criticised the war on terror

Says divorcees can remarry in church

I confess I haven't read much about him...but I can't say I disagree with any of those.