Did Christ allow for the salvation of fallen Angels?

[gtsecc]

Or just humanity?

[Songspinner]

I've often wondered this myself....but Angels don't have souls do they, therefore cannot be saved??

[PaladinValer]

1. When was it said Angels don't have souls?
2. Jesus died to save all Creation. That would imply Satan, demons, and fallen angels as well. As to whether they will repent of their sins is, of course, up to them.

[Father Rick]

Scripture only speaks of salvation for man. It just doesn't discuss salvation of angels.

[Rev. Smith]

Revelations speaks of the fallen angels repenting and seeking mercy, but being refused, so I think we must assume that salvation is only for mortals.

[TomUK]

I think that's between God and the angels- all i know is that God is a God of love and life, and though i most theology goes over my head, provided i remember those points then i can't go far wrong.

[LADY DI]

Revelations speaks of the fallen angels repenting and seeking mercy, but being refused, so I think we must assume that salvation is only for mortals.
:confused: Where's that at???

[ps139]

Well I cannot "debate" in here so I'll phrase it into a question :)

For us to be saved, God became Man. We all agree on this.
Would there be a way for fallen angels to be saved, in the absence of "God becoming Angel"?

[PaladinValer]

I believe God died for all Creation. He so much loved the world that He so-on-and-so-forth (St. 3:16 obviously). It isn't just humanity the Scripture is referring to but all of the world (and, by implication, all Creation).

[ps139]

Paladin do you believe the devils can ever receive the grace to repent?

[gtsecc]

Paladin do you believe the devils can ever receive the grace to repent?
I always assume that if I can, anyone or "thing" can. But, that is just based upon my personal intuition, not any theological matter I have really thought over. I personally welcome input here from other faiths, especially Roman Catholics, because I think we have common theological beliefs regarding the sacraments and salvation. I would think in light of this the mods will allow more room for debate on this subject than say other "hot" topics. And, I say Roman Catholic only becasue I know many Episcopalians who would consider themselves Catholic, so I have to distiguish the two.

[ps139]

I personally welcome input here from other faiths, especially Roman Catholics, because I think we have common theological beliefs regarding the sacraments and salvation. I would think in light of this the mods will allow more room for debate on this subject than say other "hot" topics.
You make some good points. I'm sure that this is not a defined article of faith for Anglicans, and is an area of speculation? Most things regarding angels are. If this is the case then yeah discussion can be opened up. I just do not want to overstep my bounds... :)


And, I say Roman Catholic only becasue I know many Episcopalians who would consider themselves Catholic, so I have to distiguish the two.
Understood. Some Catholics get upset about the "Roman" thing but I really don't care. I mean, I went to "Saint Paul's Roman Catholic School" from ages 8 - 13 !!! ;).

I always assume that if I can, anyone or "thing" can. But, that is just based upon my personal intuition, not any theological matter I have really thought over.
Well my issue here is, we can be saved because God became Man. Right? He came to save the world, but God did not become dog, cat, or angel, only Man. So I think on that basis alone, fallen angels cannot be saved.

Also, we as humans were born into sin. The angels who rebelled sinned with full knowledge of the consequences. I think they are permanently fallen from grace. I wish it were not so but thats what I think.

[seebs]

Ooh, an absolutely fascinating question! Who here's read George MacDonald's Lillith?

[CSMR]

I think we are being to literalistic in asking these questions. Angel=messenger does't it? Same goes for asking whether devils can be saved, aliens can be saved, personal stereo systems can be saved... All these things have no meaning (unless these things are somehow human) because we only know what it is for us to be saved, and so salvation has no meaning (=no meaning for us) when applied to non-humans.

[ps139]

Angels of God, in the Bible, are often referred to as messengers. A familiar example of this is the Angel Gabriel in Luke 1.
However, devils are also angels, they are fallen angels, who rebelled against God. The fact that they are fallen does not change the fact that they are angels.

[gtsecc]

I think we are being to literalistic in asking these questions. Angel=messenger does't it? Gabrielle, Lucifer, Michael, Uriel, Raphael
Did I forget anyone?
Don't all Christians believe these beings literally exist?

[gitlance]

Well, I certainly believe Angels and Demons exist.... if you read the book of Jude, he talks about the angels who "left their first estate," having rebelled against God. They are apparently being held in chains in a place called Tartarus, awaiting judgement. That, too me, makes it sound like they have no choice for redemption if they are being held in chains awaiting judgement. Plus, the Revelation says that Satan and all who follow(ed) him will be cast into the lake of fire.... I would imagine that includes fallen angels as well as those who never repented and turned to Christ. These are my two cents.... hope it makes sense. (Hehehe, I know you guys really liked that last sentence.) :crossrc:

[RobNJ]

Gabrielle, Lucifer, Michael, Uriel, Raphael
Did I forget anyone?

You forgot............. Moroni!!!!^_^

[julian the apostate]

richard wurmbrand (voice of the martyrs)

who was born a jew
converted to christianity through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin
and then ordained a lutheran minister
who spent 30 years in fascist and communist prison camps

was convinced his guardian angel was formerly a fallen angel

[Zacharias]

You forgot............. Moroni!!!!^_^

The angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and eventually revealed the location of golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon. I would say, if he exists, that he is a fallen angel. ;)

[RobNJ]

The angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and eventually revealed the location of golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon. I would say, if he exists, that he is a fallen angel. ;)
DING DING DING!! we have a winner!!:thumbsup:

[Rev. Smith]

The angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and eventually revealed the location of golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon. I would say, if he exists, that he is a fallen angel. ;)
Many creeds hold that scripture is inerrrent, infallable and God breathed, in essence that God protects scipture from corruption for the edification of man. If Moroni is a fallen angel, establishing a corrupt scripture then what does this say to those doctrines? Will God allow His own name and scriptures to be used to lead others astray?

I sometimes wonder if the Mormons are the "other sheep" Christ described, but if they are then how can their orthodoxy be so alien to most of the rest of Chrstian faith?

[julian the apostate]

I sometimes wonder if the Mormons are the "other sheep" Christ described, but if they are then how can their orthodoxy be so alien to most of the rest of Chrstian faith?


orthodoxy is alien, but experience of the risen Christ perhaps isnt