Prophesy

[patrici]

Hello!
I have been a little confused as to how prophesying is applied today. Some equate it as preaching or simply explaining a verse. I am not so sure about this so I am asking for input from Scripture as to:

What exactly is prophesying?

If one prophesied, does that make him/her a prophet(ess)?

Thanks!
Patricia

[New_Wineskin]

If one prophesied, does that make him/her a prophet(ess)?

No . If you need a passage from the Scriptures , one passage indicates that all can prophesy one by one . There is the calling of a prophet , there are those gifted in prophecy , and there is the movement of the Spirit where anyone can do so with His leading . Paul speaks of all three types of workings of the Spirit in this manner while writing to the Corinthians .

[WesWoodell]

I believe prophecy today means having the ability to understand and explain/teach God's Word correctly and accuratly.

[patrici]

New_Wineskin Wrote:
"No . If you need a passage from the Scriptures , one passage indicates that all can prophesy one by one . There is the calling of a prophet , there are those gifted in prophecy , and there is the movement of the Spirit where anyone can do so with His leading . Paul speaks of all three types of workings of the Spirit in this manner while writing to the Corinthians ."

REPLY:
Could you be more specific as to where these differing types are in Paul's writings to the Corinthians, please?
Thanks!
Patricia

[patrici]

WesWoodell Wrote:
"I believe prophecy today means having the ability to understand and explain/teach God's Word correctly and accuratly."

REPLY:
Can you show me where in Scripture you have come to this belief?
Thanks!
Patricia

[angel-of-archs]

Hello!
I have been a little confused as to how prophesying is applied today. Some equate it as preaching or simply explaining a verse. I am not so sure about this so I am asking for input from Scripture as to:

What exactly is prophesying?

If one prophesied, does that make him/her a prophet(ess)?

Thanks!
Patriciaprophetsying is when u u talk about the future features in the future from the bible:preach: ,and that will make them a prophet,im a prophet

[patrici]

savior_of_God Wrote:
"prophetsying is when u u talk about the future features in the future from the bible:preach: ,
REPLY:
Where have you found this definition in the Scriptures?

savior_of_God Wrote:
"and that will make them a prophet,im a prophet"
REPLY:
Speaking about the future from the Bible (like reading what the Bible says of future events?) makes you a prophet? Did I understand you correctly? I'm not sure that I did. Can you please clarify using Scripture? If you are a prophet, how does God speak to you?
Thanks!
Patricia

[New_Wineskin]

New_Wineskin Wrote:
"No . If you need a passage from the Scriptures , one passage indicates that all can prophesy one by one . There is the calling of a prophet , there are those gifted in prophecy , and there is the movement of the Spirit where anyone can do so with His leading . Paul speaks of all three types of workings of the Spirit in this manner while writing to the Corinthians ."

REPLY:
Could you be more specific as to where these differing types are in Paul's writings to the Corinthians, please?
Thanks!
Patricia
Well , there are two letters in most Christian bibles that are considered to be letters to the Corinthians from Paul . One is usually called "First Corinthians" and the other is usually called "Second Corinthians" . While these names are not a part of the Scriptures , people usually refer to them in this way . Some people that come to these forums may have a problem with referring to them in this manner due to the fact that these names are not used in the Scriptures and therefore defaming them . Anyway , if you have a typical Christian bible , the information that I am referring to is contained in the letter usually referred to as "First Corinthians" or "1Corinthians" or "I Corinthians" - depending on the style .

[patrici]

New_Wineskin Wrote:
"Well , there are two letters in most Christian bibles that are considered to be letters to the Corinthians from Paul . One is usually called "First Corinthians" and the other is usually called "Second Corinthians" . While these names are not a part of the Scriptures , people usually refer to them in this way . Some people that come to these forums may have a problem with referring to them in this manner due to the fact that these names are not used in the Scriptures and therefore defaming them . Anyway , if you have a typical Christian bible , the information that I am referring to is contained in the letter usually referred to as "First Corinthians" or "1Corinthians" or "I Corinthians" - depending on the style ."
REPLY:
Yes, I am familiar with the Corinthian letters. I was asking you where in these letters are these passages that you are referring to...epistle, chapter, verse, that depict the different types.
Thanks!
Patricia

[New_Wineskin]

REPLY:
Yes, I am familiar with the Corinthian letters. I was asking you where in these letters are these passages that you are referring to...epistle, chapter, verse, that depict the different types.
Thanks!
Patricia
If you are familiar with those letters , you would have been able to have read them between the time of my post until now . As I said , there are those that are coming to this forum that dislike things that have no example in the Scriptures . The Scriptures do not record any example of "epistle , chapter , verse " . So , to deflect an argument from those types of people , I have gone with the example as given in the Scriptures and gave the author and the name of those that the letters gave as the audience of the letters .

But , to help you out if you read and could not see the examples that I gave ...
You could use a concordance . The phrase that I gave in the previous post would be a good start on the "anyone" .

As for the "calling" , it is recorded twice as to apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastors , and teachers ( though not in the same order ) . The recording in the one letter to the Corinthians would lead you there from a concordance .

In the extended passage for "calling" , you will find a list of "gifts" which brings us to that final area .

I will quote the passages if you cannot find them .

[Christler]

The is an office of Prophets that are no longer in use. The Old testament Prophets were a type of mediator between God,and man. These Old Testament Prophets would warn God's people, Give instruction to God's people, and Give devine Revelation of events to come, becuase The Holy Bible was still in the process of being written, and those revelations was given by the prophets of old to be shared with the people of that day, and to be written in The Holy scriptures for us in this day, so that we can know the History of Old Testament Times, and so that we can know what is to come up unto The End. The Holy Bible is now complete. There is no new revelation, only Illumination to what the scriptures is already saying. Also when Jesus Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple was rent, giving everyone access to the Father by Jesus Christ,now Jesus Christ is the mediator between God, and man. So we don't need a prophet to mediate for us anymore, God has given us His Holy spirit, and the Bible says "The Spirit will lead you into all truth", so we can hear from God ourselves, if we live according to his commandments. If we break His commandments we sever the fellowship with Him until we repent.
The Old Testament type of prophet is no more.

Today' so called prophets that tell you "God is going to bless you with a new house, or a new car" you know prosperity prophets are all fake fortune teller types.

but sharing an inspired Word with someone, and expounding on the word of God is called prophesy

[mustang_94]

Boy, I'll bet you're confused for sure now!!!!!!!! Some good books on the subject by Kenneth Hagin or Norvel Hayes. As you see, you will only find confusion here.

[patrici]

Mustang_94 Wrote:
"Boy, I'll bet you're confused for sure now!!!!!!!! Some good books on the subject by Kenneth Hagin or Norvel Hayes. As you see, you will only find confusion here."
REPLY:
Yep!!! Thoroughly confused! I will take your advice and look up the authors you have provided and go from there. Thank you!
Patricia

[Highland Watchman]

Patrici:

Actually, if you want some good scholarly works on prophecy specifically, might I suggest looking for "Prophetic Imagination" or "Texts that Linger, Words that Explode" by Walter Brueggemann. Either that, or you can look up anything by A.W.Tozer, both I would say would be modern-day prophets.

I am really trying hard not to fly off the handle at the misinterpretations of the prophetic office that have already been mentioned here. So I will address each of them specifically, and then I will mention what I understand the prophetic office to entail.

First of all, regarding prophets foretelling the future... I'm sorry, but this is not a statement that has any true understanding of who the prophets were or where they came from. In fact, there is only maybe 5% of what the prophets said that could really be considered predictive in the sense that you are thinking about. Not only this, but if their passion was to merely sit around and divine the future, how would that make them any different from the mediums and sorcerers... and you must remember what God commanded...


Leviticus 19: 31: Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:27: A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy 18:10-13: Let noone be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or is a medium or spiritist, or one who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

My question with these taken into account, if God's own law forbids mediums and diviners (those who foretell the future), why is it that he would call, commission and send men (and women) who he, himself despises, among his people, to speak for HIM, and to do the very things (in HIS name, no less) that HE condemns. That doesn't add up.

My second concern with what you said is that you outright proclaimed prophetic authority for yourself. This in itself is not wrong, as God can and does call prophets to speak to HIS church in this day, just as HE has from the very beginning of time. But I will get to this later. The concern that I have is that you make the claim without any proof. If you truly are a prophet, you would not need to say it. It would be perfectly obvious to everyone (except those who deny the existance of prophecy) that this is what you are. Admittedly, I may not know the context where you are coming from, as I have not read any other posts by you yet. Nor do I know you in person... But I must give ample warning to you, as well as anyone else who decide to take on the prophetic mantle, that it is not a bunch of fun and games, nor is it all glory. Rather, it is probably the least understood of all lives and callings. If God has called you to prophecy, then by all means, prophesy... but realize the dire seriousness that prophecy brings with it, not to mention the personal trials and anguish. It is not a position to be taken upon lightly...


Someone else mentioned that there is Scriptures that separate between three different levels of prophecy. I am curious as to where, exactly, you get this, as well as where exactly you get the idea that all are called to prophesy. First, yes, I can see the POTENTIAL for the Holy Spirit to move in such a way as to allow people who do not usually function prophetically to prophesy, but I do not see where it is something meant for everyone. Rather, I turn to 1 Corinthians 12-14... for some specific verses, well... start by reading through Paul's discussion throughout Chapter 12 on the nature of the Body... the hand and the eye and the ear and the foot... He's not just talking human anatomy here. Rather, he is stating that for one who has a certain gift (we'll use prophecy here... we could use tongues too, but that's for another discussion), it is downright wrong to focus so much on the gift that you have that you insist that everyone have the same gift as you do, and place people on different levels of faith because they do or do not have the gift.

But if you want to get more specific, let's look at a specific part of the discussion...

1 Corinthians 12:27-30 Now all of you together are Christ's Body, and each of you is a separate and necessary part of it. Here is a list of some of the members that God has placed in the body of Christ: first are apostles, second are prophets, third are teachers, then those who do miracles, those who have the gift of healing, those who can help others, those who can get others to work together, and those who speak in unknown languages.

Is everyone an apostle? Of course not! Is everyone a prophet? No. Are all teachers? Does everyone have the power to do miracles? Does everyone have the gift of healing? Of course not. Does God give us all the ability to speak in unknown languages? Can everyone interpret unknown languages? No!

And then Paul goes into discussing how even if we had these gifts but lacked love, we would be as nothing.

The other verse that you referred to is not in either of the epistles (letters) that Paul wrote to Corinth. Rather, it is found in the Epistle to the Ephesians... Behold:


Ephesians 4:11-13: He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ.

Hm... Still nothing of "prophecy is meant for everyone" here. Neither is the "prophecy is prediction"... and it also seems to say something to the "prophecy does not exist anymore" camp as well...

((I'll continue this on another post...))

[Highland Watchman]

I agree with your statement, Christler, that the prosperity preachers of our day are false prophets, and I understand that based on the same thing that existed in Jeremiah's day, who were all prophesying prosperity and protection of the temple simply because they had the temple and they were living in the Holy City... not even taking into account that it is neither the city nor the temple that is truly holy, but God HIMSELF. They also preached that the exile would only happen for a couple of years, then God will restore them because they were a holy people... but yet they have forgotten the expectations that God has on HIS people, and they have gone so much as to reject HIS authority and just go through the motions of religious observance. To be honest, I see nothing different between them and the prosperity preachers of our own day. I would say that in our day, we need those Jeremiahs who are willing to make a stand for truth and justice, and who are willing to represent the True God in a society that has rejected HIM and is going down to the grave.

I can sort of understand your Cessationist viewpoint (that the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped after the Bible was written) a little more clearly than the others so far, but it has some dangers to it as well. I hope you don't mind if I explore them with you a little bit as I define the nature and role of a prophet in our day, just as they have existed before.

For one, there is the passage from Ephesians that I quoted earlier, which seems to stress the need for prophecy along with the other gifts mentioned there. If there is no need for prophets, then there would be no need for apostles (missionaries), evangelists, pastors and teachers... and yet I know some individuals personally who would fit those other roles. That's not to put my experience ahead of anyone else's. You might not know any of them. But it I may also show you to a few other short snippits of Scripture that may further highlight what I am talking about here...


1 Corinthians 14:39:Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbit speaking in tongues. But everything must be done in a fitting way.

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22: Do not stifle the Holy Spirit. Do not scoff at prophecies, but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good. Keep away from every kind of evil.

One of the dangers of the Cessationist viewpoint is that it could potentially throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. It is a good, safe, and sanitary system. But by quenching the Spirit of God, you are basically saying to God that HE is silent now, and we won't believe anyone who comes in HIS name... even if he or she is legitimately carrying a message from the LORD.

The single verse in 1 Corinthians 13:8 that is commonly used is a tenuous argument at best, especially when considering that there are at least three interpretations of what Paul is actually saying here. Some view it to be the completion of Scripture, and others the Second Coming. I'm from the third camp who says that this is not what Paul is talking about here... but if you follow his argument, he's actually saying that the gifts that these people were saying are so important really aren't as important as they think, and that what is truly important is that they have love for one another. That's why he goes into his discussion on love, and why he states that love never fails, even when the other gifts cease.

I also find it hard to believe that the God of all creation would be completely silent up until HE meets up with Moses, who started writing the Bible, then falls silent once Israel comes back from exile, then comes as a man, and then falls silent after another 40 or so years for the rest of history. Rather, we see an account of God speaking and moving from the very beginning of creation (Genesis 1 and John 1)... We also see God's friendship with Noah, and also with Abraham, both who came before the Scriptures were written. We also see many more than 16 prophets who existed throughout the history of Israel, including especially Elijah, whose writings are not part of Scripture, if he did write something. And what about Samuel, even! He was a major figure, and led Israel for several years. Certainly his writings would have been worthy of the canon. But this is only looking in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, we find 12 Disciples of Jesus, not just 4 (Peter, James, John and Matthew). What happened to them and their writings, I wonder? And what about Philips' four daughters? If they were considered prophetesses according the Scripture, would their writings not be included?

I won't go on to the post-New Testament era in this fascinating look. The point of this exercise is to show that a prophet's main intention is not to write Scripture, either. It was God's Holy Spirit who later gathered the Scriptures into the canon that we have today. Rather, the prophets and prophetesses were speaking into a specific situation, which God has made their writings normative across situations. And because Scripture is the ultimate authority to test any prophecies or teaching, if anyone wants to gain discernment, it would be a good idea to become aquainted with what God has already said, because HE is unchanging, from the very beginning to the very end.

What if I said that the role and office of the prophet was like a messenger and an ambassador, all rolled into one? Even if there are people who are allowed into the King's court, it is still the messengers that God sends out who have the Divine authority to speak HIS word into the situation. And usually that word is a critical one of the culture... but a critical one that comes from an understanding that God is sovereign. There may be some prediction involved, but that is only limited and a small part... it's kind of like God saying... "Because you will not listen to my advice anyway, you will be burned when you stick your hand on that red hot burner." Wow. How did he know that? There are consequences to what we do, and God's will is over and above history, whether we may admit it or not. Do we know how things will end in the End Times? Certain "prophecy gurus" claim to know precisely how and when it will happen... but did Jesus himself not say that we are not to know the hour or the day? Or even the exact timeline of events? There are signs of the times, yes. But a clear and specific road map with specific dates? There are not, and you are fooling yourselves if you follow after those who claim that they are "experts" in end-time or "Biblical prophecy", because it is based on a misconception of what the intent of prophecy really is.

So what is the intent of prophecy? Not to foretell the future. Not to become popular or rich (as most true prophets find themselves on the outside looking in). Not to write Scripture (as I very highly doubt it was their intention to do so). Rather, it is revival, pure and simple. For the people of God to recognize God for who HE is, to turn back to HIS ways, and to bring HIM glory. The Reformation was an example of prophetic passion against an established church that has become corrupt, and there have been other examples throughout history. This can take the form of inspired preaching, as some have done (Jonathan Edwards, for example, or Martin Luther King Jr.), or it could take the form of writing (as men like Martin Luther and A.W.Tozer are best known for), or personal spiritual direction and counselling (I think specifically of Henri Nouwen here), or even social justice and activism (like Francis of Assissi, Joan of Arc, and others). Prophecy is not a function in that it is only one task to be fulfilled. Rather, it is more like a passion and a mindset... much like an apostle's passion is to take the Gospel to the very furthest frontiers, and the evangelist's passion is to pursue and save the lost.

One final consideration before I close this, which could be some food for thought. The church in our culture... Its very presence is prophetic. So in a strange way, I guess I do concede that all Christians can be prophetic in the sense that they belong to a prophetic people who are sent to take God's message of light and truth to the nations around them. The same can be said of Israel. That's not to say that everyone will prophesy, or that all Christians are prophets. Rather, it is a statement of part of the church's identity. If the church loses its prophetic flavour and nature, it loses its saltiness, and it becomes nothing but a meaningless religion and a shallow social club. And who really wants any of that?

[Asaph]

Highland Watchman,

These are some well reasoned, sound scriptural expositions. Very good work. Amen and amen.

Asaph