speaking in tongues

[Christler]

God Bless everyone, Listen I was in deep study concerning speaking in tongues, and I've come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues is a type of praying in the spirit, for the one speaking in tongues spirit is talking to God (Unknown tongue is what i'm refering to.) and it was said in corinthians that He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. Well why do people act as if the one speaking in unknown tongues is getting some message from God, and someone else comes along to interpret saying "thus sayeth The Lord..........."?:scratch:

[inHisgrip]

There is also Tongues where it is a message from God, but someone is needed to interpret. I have never seen this done, and don't know how common it is these days. You will get many responses, and many here believe that speaking in tongues is the sign that you have recieved the Holy Spirit. I believe that tongues is a prayer language and not necessaary for salvation.
In Him

[fiveinjuly]

There is speaking in tounges as a prayer language, and then there is speaking in tounges as a way to deliver a message from God...that's all I have to say about that.

[WesWoodell]

God Bless everyone, Listen I was in deep study concerning speaking in tongues, and I've come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues is a type of praying in the spirit, for the one speaking in tongues spirit is talking to God (Unknown tongue is what i'm refering to.) and it was said in corinthians that He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. Well why do people act as if the one speaking in unknown tongues is getting some message from God, and someone else comes along to interpret saying "thus sayeth The Lord..........."?:scratch:
The people converted in the Corinthian church were formally involved in the worship of Aphrodite. Before their conversion the female prostitutes that served the false Goddess Aphrodite would charge their customers money in exchange for their service of speaking in tongues to Aphrodite to predict the future - kind of like the 1-900-PSYCHIC lines that are around today.

The prostitutes that converted to Christianity were apparently still engaging in this practice after the church was founded there, only this time they were claiming to speak to God.

In the Corinthian letters, Paul was (in a very nice way I might add) telling them to stop.

[Christler]

There is also Tongues where it is a message from God, but someone is needed to interpret. I have never seen this done, and don't know how common it is these days. You will get many responses, and many here believe that speaking in tongues is the sign that you have recieved the Holy Spirit. I believe that tongues is a prayer language and not necessaary for salvation.
In Him Yes the tongues used as a message from God is known tongues as in other languages established in the world to be interpreted for a sign to those who don't believe. I believe unknown tongues to be a prayer language directed to God and not from God to man.

[Christler]

The people converted in the Corinthian church were formally involved in the worship of Aphrodite. Before their conversion the female prostitutes that served the false Goddess Aphrodite would charge their customers money in exchange for their service of speaking in tongues to Aphrodite to predict the future - kind of like the 1-900-PSYCHIC lines that are around today.

The prostitutes that converted to Christianity were apparently still engaging in this practice after the church was founded there, only this time they were claiming to speak to God.

In the Corinthian letters, Paul was (in a very nice way I might add) telling them to stop. I understand the history of the corinthian Church being involved in Aphrodite worship, and the false tongues in which they spake, But I hope you're not saying that there is no reality to the unknown tongue by the Spirit of God; if so........... Wow!:eek: You're way off

[WesWoodell]

No, I'm not saying that.


I personally don't believe it can be used today though. I believe that people who speak in tounges today are simply babbling incoherantly. Good thing God has a sense of humor. ^_^


I say this because I've grown up in the church and have never seen anyone speak in tounges for real. The people I'm familiar with who did claim to speak in tounges were faking it (found out later) just to put on a show for the others that were there and to show everyone how "righteous" and "gifted" they were.

As far as speaking in tounges to God goes - I believe we can babble to God and the Holy Spirit will interpret what our spirit is saying, but God wants us to pray with our mind and our spirit if I'm not mistaken.

If we are babbling incoherantly are we praying with our minds? No - we are babbling like infants.

Thats just how I feel - I might be wrong about it all, but I would have to see some proof to make me think so.

[Iosias]

God Bless everyone, Listen I was in deep study concerning speaking in tongues, and I've come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues is a type of praying in the spirit, for the one speaking in tongues spirit is talking to God (Unknown tongue is what i'm refering to.) and it was said in corinthians that He who speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself. Well why do people act as if the one speaking in unknown tongues is getting some message from God, and someone else comes along to interpret saying "thus sayeth The Lord..........."?:scratch:
The parts you quote are when paul is being sarcastic :) The gift of tangues has ceased.

[mcauliffeandy]

Beloved, My experience of tongues is that the Spirit can pray and not ourselves, simply talking to God. I do beleive people can explain the meaning of tongues, but only at the Holy Spirit's prompting. For we work as a body.

Andy

[twistedsketch]

Tounges will cease when we get to Heaven. Tounges need to be properly used in the meantime (1 Cor 12-14)

[Iosias]

Tounges will cease when we get to Heaven.
Where is your Biblical evidence for that?

[twistedsketch]

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." - 1 Cor 13:8-12

This is the only Biblical passage that says tounges will ever cease. Now, some people believe "perfection" mentioned here is the canonization of Scripture. I don't believe this because while we do have the whole Bible, we do not have perfect knowledge of God's plan. For example, if your house burns down, yes, we have Romans 8:28 to trust in that it will come to good, but we have no idea how it will happen or why it had to happen this way. We won't fully know these things until we get to Heaven. With all the mysteries of this world, and our finite minds, I hardly call just trusting in Romans 8:28 seeing "face to face." Rather, it's an exercise of faith, and even when we exercise it, we will see the answer poorly as in a Corinthian bronze mirror simply because we cannot see or fathom the whole of God's plan and how the house burning down relates to it- yet.

[Adammi]

The people converted in the Corinthian church were formally involved in the worship of Aphrodite. Before their conversion the female prostitutes that served the false Goddess Aphrodite would charge their customers money in exchange for their service of speaking in tongues to Aphrodite to predict the future - kind of like the 1-900-PSYCHIC lines that are around today.

The prostitutes that converted to Christianity were apparently still engaging in this practice after the church was founded there, only this time they were claiming to speak to God.

In the Corinthian letters, Paul was (in a very nice way I might add) telling them to stop.

So Paul was thankful that he Prostituted more people to Aphrodite than anyone else?

1 Corinthians 14:18

[Iosias]

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." - 1 Cor 13:8-12

This is the only Biblical passage that says tounges will ever cease. Now, some people believe "perfection" mentioned here is the canonization of Scripture. I don't believe this because while we do have the whole Bible, we do not have perfect knowledge of God's plan. For example, if your house burns down, yes, we have Romans 8:28 to trust in that it will come to good, but we have no idea how it will happen or why it had to happen this way. We won't fully know these things until we get to Heaven. With all the mysteries of this world, and our finite minds, I hardly call just trusting in Romans 8:28 seeing "face to face." Rather, it's an exercise of faith, and even when we exercise it, we will see the answer poorly as in a Corinthian bronze mirror simply because we cannot see or fathom the whole of God's plan and how the house burning down relates to it- yet.
What does 1 Cor 13 say is done in part?

[twistedsketch]

What does 1 Cor 13 say is done in part?
Knowing and prophesying, and we continue that to this day. We cannot do either completely yet.

Besides, it also says that knowledge will pass away. Hence it will no longer be needed. Today, in this world, we need knowledge from God, and that is found in Scripture.

[Iosias]

Knowing and prophesying, and we continue that to this day. We cannot do either completely yet.
The verses say that the coming of the perfect will cause prophesy and knowledge to cease for they are in part. But it does not say that tongues are in part hence they must cease before the coming of the perfect and so cease before both prophesy and knowledge cease.

[Psalm31]

A couple weeks ago I went to a Pentacostal church (I go to a non-denominational church). It was night church and the pastor's topic was about speaking in tongues. He stated that he speaks in tongues on a regular basis in his quite time with God everyday, BUT, that he has never spoken them infront of people (I have been to many services there and have not seem him do so). During two worship songs he pulled the mike away from his mouth and started speaking in tongues. If I'm understanding this correctly it was wrong for him to do this infront of the congregation without an interpretor because he was soley edifying himself?

My finite mind is also having a hard time believing what happened was real because he just so happened to be speaking on the topic of tongues, had never spoken tongues in public and then does...hmm
He also stated that you are not confirmed if you do not speak in tongues because you are not allowing the Holy Spirit to do this through you. I don't believe that's right.

[chunkofcoal]

Genesis 11:1-9 The story of the tower of Babel. The people wanted to build a tower in order to reach heaven. Their speech was confused so they couldn't complete the tower. They were trying to get to heaven the wrong way.
Acts 2 The Holy Spirit gave utterance to the disciples and everyone heard them speak "the wonderful works of God" in their own language.
There is a right "Way" to heaven.

[twistedsketch]

The verses say that the coming of the perfect will cause prophesy and knowledge to cease for they are in part. But it does not say that tongues are in part hence they must cease before the coming of the perfect and so cease before both prophesy and knowledge cease.
Going by that logic, we have no Biblical clue as to when tounges would cease, so we would have to go by pure, man-made guesswork.

Since Paul is including tounges, knowledge, and prophesy together in verse 8, and we cannot divorce verse 8 from verse 9, as they are in the same paragraph, I hold the position that knowledge, tounges, and prophesies will all perish together.

[Iosias]

Going by that logic, we have no Biblical clue as to when tounges would cease, so we would have to go by pure, man-made guesswork.

Since Paul is including tounges, knowledge, and prophesy together in verse 8, and we cannot divorce verse 8 from verse 9, as they are in the same paragraph, I hold the position that knowledge, tounges, and prophesies will all perish together.
Well tongues were a sign to Israel...and God is not dealing with Israel at the moment and so tongues have ceased...but in the future after we have been taken away they will begin again as God starts once again dealing with Israel. :)

[twistedsketch]

Well tongues were a sign to Israel...and God is not dealing with Israel at the moment and so tongues have ceased...but in the future after we have been taken away they will begin again as God starts once again dealing with Israel. :)
So that's why Paul was writing this to Gentiles as well? His letters are not so clear-cut as to say this is only for the Jews and this is only for the Gentiles. Certainly not with the issue at hand, which is tounges.

Besides, I work with a woman who grew up Jewish and was converted in college. So He still works with Isreal to some extent :) .

[Iosias]

So that's why Paul was writing this to Gentiles as well? His letters are not so clear-cut as to say this is only for the Jews and this is only for the Gentiles. Certainly not with the issue at hand, which is tounges.
His letters during Acts were written to Christians who lived during the transition period. In his letter to the conrinthians he was basicly saying to them "Look, these tongues are for Israel and have nothing to do with us so stop counterfeiting them and causing disorer within the church."


Besides, I work with a woman who grew up Jewish and was converted in college. So He still works with Isreal to some extent.
No this is His working with Jews, NOT Israel ;)

[twistedsketch]

His letters during Acts were written to Christians who lived during the transition period. In his letter to the conrinthians he was basicly saying to them "Look, these tongues are for Israel and have nothing to do with us so stop counterfeiting them and causing disorer within the church."

He's not saying that in Chapter 14 at all. He's saying that tounges should be spoken, but in an orderly fashion (v. 26-40).
No this is His working with Jews, NOT Israel ;)
Jews are not part of Isreal? They make up Isreal, along with us, since Gentiles have been called back into God's family.

[NJA]

You quote from 1 Cor. 13 about the gifts ceasing, but this passage speaks of 2 time periods "now" and "then". "Then" christians will know *even as* they are known, that certainly isn't now, so we are still in "now", so
tongues, prophecy, knowledge, faith & hope remain, until Christ returns.

Not a jot or tittle will pass from the law, similarly the New Covenant continues as it began, there are stern warning against those who say it's different compared to the early church:-

Galatians 3:15: Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Jude:1:3: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2Tim.3:1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.:2: For men shall be . . .
:5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The new covenant is not just to natural Israel, it is to the gentiles too, 1 gospel, no schism jew:gentile or then:now.

People don't know what I say when I speak in tongues, that's the whole point !
Only God knows His perfect will for me, so I need to allow Him to lead me beyond my understanding in prayer - into the peace that PASSES understanding, the joy unspeakable etc.

Paul said the same:-
1Co:14:14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

See also:-
Romans 8:26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The new tongue signifies the new heart, if you have never spoken in tongues *you* have NOT yet received the New Life, and you CANNOT understand it until you do:-
1Cor.2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[twistedsketch]

See also:-
Romans 8:26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
The groanings here are not tounges. When you look it up in the Greek, or even just examine the context, it is very clear. The context is God being there for His people. The Spirit intercedes for us, but He doesn't need to use our mouths to do it.

The "groanings" (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=4726&version=nas) here is not the word used for tounges. It is only used twice in the NT - the other time it is used, it describes the Jew's anguished prayers for relief when they were in Egypt. Tongues (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1100&version=nas) is referred to with a different word entirely.


The new tongue signifies the new heart, if you have never spoken in tongues *you* have NOT yet received the New Life, and you CANNOT understand it until you do:-
1Cor.2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The wisdom of the Spirit need not come with tounges. In fact, it is very clear than not all true Christians have tounges.

" There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines."
- 1 Cor 12:4-11

Continuing . . .

"Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?"
- 1 Cor 12:27-30

[NJA]

ALL christians are told to pray in the Holy Spirit, so they all obviously knew what this is ! Jude speaks of people who "separate themselves" (say they are holy) but who *don't* have the Spirit, and contrasts there with "you beloved" who are to “build up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit” (v19-21). . . so how do you do this ?

In 1 Corinthians 14v15-16 Paul says:-
"What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when you bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupies the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understands not what you say ?"

. . . if he blesses / prays with the spirit, others will not understand !
Some people think Romans 8v26 gives an alternative for people who don’t speak in tongues. They substitute their own groaning (which does not edify them) for the Spirit's groaning (the word means cry). If people don't have the Spirit it is no surprise that they groan !

The Spirit of God knows ALL things, so he has the words to express our need so we can pray according to the will of God. He is “the Comforter” who relieves us of our human failings. (1Co:2:11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.)

The only way given of “praying in the Holy Spirit” is in tongues:-
1Cor.14v2, 4: For he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him; howbeit in the spirit he speaks mysteries . . . he . . . edifies himself.
v14: For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

On the same subject we have:-
Zechariah 12v10: “And I will POUR UPON the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace AND OF SUPPLICATIONS” (supplications is prayer)

. . . there is "one Spirit" (Eph. 4v4) that was "poured out" beginning at Jerusalem:-
“they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, AND began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance . . . And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will POUR OUT of my Spirit upon all flesh” (Acts 2v4, 17)

Then with the gentiles the “like gift” (the Holy Spirit) was also “poured out” - see Acts 10v45, 11v14-18.

Jerusalem was where God set up his temple in the Old Testament, it was also to be the beginning place of the New Testament. Those who receive God's Spirit are now his temple (1 Cor. 6v19, 2 Cor. 6v16).
Mark 11v17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer?
. . . when people of all nations become God's temple by receiving the Spirit, they pray (supplications) in tongues.

[twistedsketch]

ALL christians are told to pray in the Holy Spirit, so they all obviously knew what this is ! Jude speaks of people who "separate themselves" (say they are holy) but who *don't* have the Spirit, and contrasts there with "you beloved" who are to “build up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit” (v19-21). . . so how do you do this ?

If not all believers have this gift of tongues, as Paul clearly asserts in 1 Corinthians 12, then we must not need this gift to obey God. Tongues are not needed for an effective prayer time, though they can certainly make a prayer time effective. All you need is the Spirit, who is with you if you believe, and I believe. God knows I believe, and He knows I've asked Him for tongues if He wanted me to have them. Again, as it says in 1 Cor 12:11, "All these [gifts] are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines." Tongues is not a universal gift and it wasn't back in Biblical times either. The Spirit is God's universal gift to all believers, and a believer MAY have tongues, or he/she may not.

[kingzjewel]

Well tongues were a sign to Israel...and God is not dealing with Israel at the moment and so tongues have ceased...but in the future after we have been taken away they will begin again as God starts once again dealing with Israel. :)
Romans 9 will tell you that He is still dealing with Isreal because we are all Isrealites and Children of the Promise.

[kingzjewel]

hebrew translation:
G1100

γλῶσσα

glōssa

gloce'-sah

Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.

[fiveinjuly]

Paul never said that we couldn't speak in tounges to ourselves. Waht he ws teaching against was people just showing off with the gifts and a whole bunch of people talking to the congregation. If a person is in worship and they start praising God in tounges, there is nothing wrong with that.

On that note, realize that we could post on this topic from now until rapture and we're just going to keep proving ourselves right and the other person wrong while they use what we say to prove themselves right and us wrong...