The Two witnesses

[Flavius665]

I'de like to hear what others thought of the two witnesses and who they are.
Myself I believe they are Joshuah and Caleb being of the concept that Joshuah son of none is a gentile and Caleb of Judah. Northern kingdom Southern Kingdom.Like the two sons of Moses Gershom{stranger} Eliezer{son of my house} like the prodicle son,One son left hom and mingled with swine{disrespect of Torah} and became as a dead man cast off but when he comes back home his father accepts him again.I believe the two witnesses are multitudes of people who know longer stand within the court of gentiles but they are gentiles and jews who have progressed into the Holy place and Holy of Holies in a progressive walk striving to become closer to God.Revelations 11 go and measure the temple proper and the people who worship there but leave out the court of gentiles and I will give power to my two witnesses,Meaning those who have entered into the temple proper in their walk with G-d. :clap:

[Henaynei]

I'de like to hear what others thought of the two witnesses and who they are.
Myself I believe they are Joshuah and Caleb being of the concept that Joshuah son of none is a gentile and Caleb of Judah. Northern kingdom Southern Kingdom.Like the two sons of Moses Gershom{stranger} Eliezer{son of my house} like the prodicle son,One son left hom and mingled with swine{disrespect of Torah} and became as a dead man cast off but when he comes back home his father accepts him again.I believe the two witnesses are multitudes of people who know longer stand within the court of gentiles but they are gentiles and jews who have progressed into the Holy place and Holy of Holies in a progressive walk striving to become closer to God.Revelations 11 go and measure the temple proper and the people who worship there but leave out the court of gentiles and I will give power to my two witnesses,Meaning those who have entered into the temple proper in their walk with G-d. :clap:
One real difficulty with that is that Caleb (heb = Kelev = dog = gentile) was also a gentile (See below) - he and Y'hoshua were part of the mixed multitude that stood at the foot of the mountain and said "we will obey and we will understand." When they became part of Israel, they also became part of different tribes, Kelev became part of Y'huda/Judah. It is a sobering thing to think on that the ONLY members of the assembly at the foot of Sinai who made it into the Land were both born Gentiles.

B'Midbar/Num 32:11 'None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully, 12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have followed the LORD fully.'

Kenizzite = of Ke’naz (hunting ).

Son of Eliphaz the son of Esau. He was one of the dukes of Edom. (Genesis 36:15,42 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ge+36:15,42); 1 Chronicles 1:53 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=1ch+1:53))

[Sephania]

My personal stance on these two over the years remain that it is Enoch ( pre-flood witness who knew Adam,Seth,Enos,Cainan,,Mahalaleel, and of course Jared his father, Methuseleh, his son (the oldest man ever) as well as Lamech, Noah's father, and the seventh from Adam.

And Elijah, the "king of the prophets" who is looked forward to as coming to herald the coming of Messiah.

Aren't these two supposed to be witnessing right before the return of Messiah?

I think Moshe, done seen and did enough on this here earth already! ;)

[Flavius665]

One real difficulty with that is that Caleb (heb = Kelev = dog = gentile) was also a gentile (See below) - he and Y'hoshua were part of the mixed multitude that stood at the foot of the mountain and said "we will obey and we will understand." When they became part of Israel, they also became part of different tribes, Kelev became part of Y'huda/Judah. It is a sobering thing to think on that the ONLY members of the assembly at the foot of Sinai who made it into the Land were both born Gentiles.

B'Midbar/Num 32:11 'None of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob; for they did not follow Me fully, 12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenizzite and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have followed the LORD fully.'

Kenizzite = of Ke’naz (hunting ).

Son of Eliphaz the son of Esau. He was one of the dukes of Edom. (Genesis 36:15,42 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=ge+36:15,42); 1 Chronicles 1:53 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=1ch+1:53))



I have had this discussion with someone else also from paltalk but we never did agree,I just know in numbers 13-6 he is listed as the tribe of judah and elsewhere called a prince of Judah,to my understanding Kenizite is the area he lived in .like david who was called and ephraimite.but like I said I never agreed with that other person allbiet I considered him more knowlegable than myself on the matter :help:

[Henaynei]

I have had this discussion with someone else also from paltalk but we never did agree,I just know in numbers 13-6 he is listed as the tribe of judah and elsewhere called a prince of Judah,to my understanding Kenizite is the area he lived in .like david who was called and ephraimite.but like I said I never agreed with that other person allbiet I considered him more knowlegable than myself on the matter :help:
Once a gentile converts they are a full member of Israel. Caleb was indeed a "prince" or leader of Judah. Mosh'e elevated him at the behest of G-d due to his faithfulness. As I mentioned in my piece above, once a gentile became a Jew they were "fit in" to a tribe - there was not the 13th tribe, the tribe of once-was-genitles ;)

He WAS a gentile, he IS a Jew ;)

[visionary]

You know what makes the two witnesses stand out as compared to the 144,000 and the multitude that no man can number? It is the closeness to the Lord that they walk. They have gone into the holiest of holy and received the little book that is sweet to the taste and bitter to the stomach. They are strong in the Lord and will stand up before all leaders of the world and preach the last message that God will give this world. They work miracles probably in the face of great miracle copycats "unclean spirits like frogs that come out of the dragon, beast, and false prophet." Like Moses they will boldly stand in the courts of this world and testify to the Lord, the truth, the testimony of Jesus and the Torah.

So, what does it take for these two to get to the point of having this kind of spiritual strength? If they are like Moses, they will have personal character defects that they Lord will have to deal with first. If they are like Elijah, they will have to set themselves apart to learn from the Lord only. If they are like John the Baptist, they will probably come from the wilderness, where they have communed with the Lord for some time. One thing that stands out with all these individuals is the fact that they all had an experience with God that was closer than those around them. SO, what does it take to have a closer experience with God, so that we may also be a part of the world last great light and message?

1. Have Jesus open up your Book of Life and go over it with you. For he is the only one capable of showing you the depth of sin. Since sin separates you from God, it is extremely important to be cleansed of all sin, in preparation for a invitation to the courts of heaven, in vision.

2. Visions, now that is a experience that a lot of people are unsure of. Understandable, but it is one of the methods that God uses to communicate with the prophets and apostles. If we want to have this closer walk, we need to be mentally prepared to accept the workings of the Lord are not our way. To have spiritual understanding of some things, the Lord can not always work with the way it is understood at this time. Sometimes what it takes is an experience that is outside the usual to open up our eyes to the reality of God and His ways.

3. Jesus promised to those that ask they will recieve, to those that seek they would find. He wants us to ask and recieve the riches of blessings, and what better than a taste of heaven. If He would take you in a dream into the courts of heaven and showed you the city and the temple and all that is there, would you not long all the more for Jesus to return so that you could live there? If you were in the courts of heaven in vision and were brought back to earth would you not find the filth, sickness, violence, and sin offense to a degree that would be made sharper by the experience.

Would you not be better prepared in understanding as to who, what, and why things that happen on earth are as God fortold? And with this rest assurance that it is all in Gopd's capable hands, more focused on witnessing to the truth and the testimony of Jesus and His soon return.

4. The Lord is looking for just such people to stand up and say Here Lord, Here I am, send me. The Lord is looking for those that are willing to take up the cross and follow him. In the last days, men will dream dreams and have visions, and two will witness to the world the truth as it happens so that the world may repent of its deeds.

The two witnesses are called witnesses instead of prophets because what they predict happens. They have been to the courts of heaven and have been with God and understand what is necessary for the last harvest. They are going to be making the last call to all the world. They know that time is up and tribulation like the world has ever seen will be upon us. They will be the last warning this world will receive and then we are all plunged into the depths of evil and its fruits to desolation point.