women preaching in the church ?

[Christler]

1 corinthians 14:34 (NASB) " Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not prmitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the law also says."

1 corinthians 14:35 (NASB) " And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

Now everyone, I am not into shutting women up. I just want to know what every one feels about this passage of scripture. I believe in following God's word no matter what the cost, and following His Word without complaining for He is Just, and Righteous. His ways are far above our own.
I'm just concerned for the body of Christ, because alot of Saints disregard this passage of scripture, or interpret it to have no effect in todays church. I don't understand why God commands some of the things He commands, but I don't support dissobiedience to The Word of God. Trust me people, I've translated, and translated, and read this scripture from many versions of The Holy Bible, and it is literally saying the same thing over, and over; "not permitted."
How do so many churches get around this passage of scripture?

[kspchemist]

How do so many churches get around this passage of scripture?Easy, they ignore the passage. Or they re-intrepret the scripture to mean something that it doesn't.

[Iron Lion]

im not sure 100%, but you need to take into context the customs of the day. women didnt have rights like today (even women 50 years ago didnt) that could be a factor as it had been a custom of a male dominated society.

Another reason being a sign of those times may be simular to the muslim way in a mosque that woman must sit at the back. people asume this is opression but was instituted because of the amount of bending over and bowing in a muslim service and that men have a tendency to lustfully look at female so with them at the back the temptation is not there. maybey the christian church did this to, So as not to have women draw attetion to them self. Asking questions to other men in church may have been forbidden and it was better to ask the husband at home because talking to other men at church could become temptation. Again more of a custom thing of those days. Women were thought of as objects that were owned.

Im sure women were made to sit at the back in Pauls day.

Saying all this, these are just my thoughts and I could be way way off. lol.

I could see in that sence people saying it doesnt apply to todays church. As holy as scripture is you still have to take into account they were written in a very different world for today. This doesnt detract for there holyness more just that our western society allows more freedom. I bet an arab christian church still today makes women sit at the back and not talk.

anyways my thoughts.

hope i helped

[servant4ever]

It was the Corinthian culture that didn't allow women to preach. I think its quite funny that Christians ignore that the first evangelists were women... they evangelized to 11 men and they believed.

servant4ever

[Andyman_1970]

im not sure 100%, but you need to take into context the customs of the day. women didnt have rights like today (even women 50 years ago didnt) that could be a factor as it had been a custom of a male dominated society.


If you really want to know, do some research on what was going on in Corinth at that time to help give you some background to what Paul was saying.

Wasn't Clohe (sp?) in charge of one of the house churches in Corinth?

Anyway, just a suggestion...............

[Dr. E W Bullinger]

How do so many churches get around this passage of scripture?
A very good question. At the assembly I attend women remain silent and cover their hair :)

[kspchemist]

im not sure 100%, but you need to take into context the customs of the day. women didnt have rights like today (even women 50 years ago didnt) that could be a factor as it had been a custom of a male dominated society.Why do we have to take in to consideration the customs of the day? Doesn't the Bible say in Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not;". What about Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever."? If women couldn't preach then, then they shouldn't be preaching now. That is irregardless whether or not it was a male dominated society.

As holy as scripture is you still have to take into account they were written in a very different world for today. Again why take into account when they are written? God is the same always. If it was commanded then, then it remains a commandment now. Anyway if we can rationalize away the commandments of God, by the fact they were written to a different culture, then we can rationalize away the whole Bible, and call it irrevelant.

[Christler]

Why do we have to take in to consideration the customs of the day? Doesn't the Bible say in Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not;". What about Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever."? If women couldn't preach then, then they shouldn't be preaching now. That is irregardless whether or not it was a male dominated society.

Again why take into account when they are written? God is the same always. If it was commanded then, then it remains a commandment now. Anyway if we can rationalize away the commandments of God, by the fact they were written to a different culture, then we can rationalize away the whole Bible, and call it irrevelant.
Very Very Good ! This is just what I'm saying! :) Right on :thumbsup: :amen:

[kyzar]

Why do we have to take in to consideration the customs of the day? Doesn't the Bible say in Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not;". What about Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever."? If women couldn't preach then, then they shouldn't be preaching now. That is irregardless whether or not it was a male dominated society.

Again why take into account when they are written? God is the same always. If it was commanded then, then it remains a commandment now. Anyway if we can rationalize away the commandments of God, by the fact they were written to a different culture, then we can rationalize away the whole Bible, and call it irrevelant.
This is something close to my heart... I feel that too many people these days simply try to get around scripture in general by saying 'look at the context'... essentially the context isn't what is important. The bible is God's inspired word and as such is what we should live our lives by...

[WesWoodell]

im not sure 100%, but you need to take into context the customs of the day. women didnt have rights like today (even women 50 years ago didnt) that could be a factor as it had been a custom of a male dominated society.The Bible isn't meant to be simply a history book; it is the Word of God. If God didn't want us to follow that command He wouldn't have inspired Paul to write the letter.

Between that passage in Corinthians and the ones in 1 or 2 Timothy (can't remember off the top of my head) we know for a fact that it is sinful for a woman to teach in the church assembly when men are present.

Read God's Word for what it says; not what you want it to say.

[StevenL]

A very good question. At the assembly I attend women remain silent and cover their hair :)
Why do they cover their hair? I thought their hair was given to them FOR a covering.

[mbams]

Do women at your church wear pearls. Do your wives/girlfriends/sisters wear jewellery (wedding bands? engagement rings?)? Do they braid their hair? Do you greet each believer with a kiss?

The Bible is all about context. The sacrifice Jesus made is confirmed through the context of the Old Testament. You can’t simply take 1 or 2 verses out of the Bible and proclaim them as isolated ideas. Those verse should be studied in the context of the passages and letters they are written, as well as the greater message of the New Testament.

[Stinker]

The women who were causing the trouble in the church at Corinth were those women that history now has identfied as Aphrodite and Adonis worshippers. By their 'cropped' and shaved heads, and their aggressive ursurpation of authority in the church (the women were the leaders in their pagan religions) does identify these Christian women converts.

The men who worshipped Aphrodite, worked as temple prostitutes and dressed in women's clothes and wore their hair long if it was possible. If not, they wore long wigs. These male prostitutes serviced the men that came to worship Aphrodite. That is why the Apostle Paul said that it was a shame for a man to have long hair. Can you imagine what people were saying about the men that were sporting long hair back then in that part of the world, and at the same time proclaiming to be Christians! The same with the women who were sporting the fashion of Aphrodite!

[Iron Lion]

Why do we have to take in to consideration the customs of the day? Doesn't the Bible say in Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not;". What about Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever."? If women couldn't preach then, then they shouldn't be preaching now. That is irregardless whether or not it was a male dominated society.

Again why take into account when they are written? God is the same always. If it was commanded then, then it remains a commandment now. Anyway if we can rationalize away the commandments of God, by the fact they were written to a different culture, then we can rationalize away the whole Bible, and call it irrevelant.


I think custom must have played on some teachings, look how Jesus said the mustard seed was the smallest seed. We know its not but jesus was trying to prove a point to the people of that time. In that area it would haved been the smallest seed. would you say that jesus didnt know all because he said that? or that his msg wasnt universal? No but for the people of that day it was the way it was. The bible has many example of idears of teaching thgat just dont relate today. People thought people were demon possesed where we today know that it was more a case of mental illness. i could go on. Any way like i said it was just my thoughts and its set in stone.

By the way the lord doesnt change this i agree, but you must agree that people and society do.

[fiveinjuly]

Blanket statement: Some people need to get out of the past...

[Starcrystal]

This question is raised every so often on Cf and I've seen at least a half dozen threads on it. they are probably old and buried now. Women can preach in church. It was a localized issue in Corinth and also some of Pauls own opinion (which has also been dealt with in several threads.) Paul personally didn't want women preaching, but if we try to say his rule is meant for all we would have to contradict what he says elsewhere, especially how he recognizes women laborers and Aquila & Priscillas house church. Jesus never made such a distinction and Jesus is our Lord. In fact it was women who first announced that he had risen!

[WesWoodell]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent (we know from studying Corinthians that the context here means in the church assembly).

1 Corinthians 14:33-38 "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is (not Paul's opinion, but) the Lord's command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored."


To say that Paul was writing his opinion and not the inspired Word of God is to discredit the Bible and claim that the Bible could be wrong.

To say that it is ok for women to preach to men in the assembly is to deny the Word's authority by contradiction.

The Word of God states that Priscilla and Aquilla had a church meet in their house. What does that have to do with women preaching in the church assembly? Nothing. They didn't preach in the assembly - we know this because God commanded them not to through Paul, and to claim otherwise is to claim that Priscilla and Aquilla didn't follow the Lord's teachings and we know they were upright women from what is written about them.

To claim that it is ok for a woman to preach in the church assembly because Priscilla and Aquilla had a discussion in their home with Apollos about baptism (Acts 18) is also ridiculous. There is not record of a woman having authority over man in the NT and there is no record of a woman teaching in the church assembly in the NT because God commands them not to and that command still applies today.


To deny the teachings of the Word of God is to deny God, and to twist the Words of God to our own liking is to deny God and God's authority.

I pray you will wake up to that.

[flounder7786]

i think that women should only be able to teach womens groups, and children...but not youth groups or up. This is hard for some women to deal with...but i think that is where God called us to be, not in front of the church teaching...

[Nienor]

i want to quote some excerpts from a book by Tony Campolo called Speaking my Mind
"I suppose a literal translation of what Paul wrote in there verses would also have to apply to the wearing of wedding rings...What perplexes me are those Christians who champion an adherence to a literal interpretation of Scripture when it comes to women preaching and teaching, then ignore what it says in adjoining verses about wedding rings. Of course the latter group of Christians will argue that we have to understand what the apostle Paul wrote about hair and jewelery in the context of the ancient sociocultural setting in which he wrote it. Exactly! and so must we understand Paul's words about women preachers. (37)"

By saying that we deny women the access to follow the gifts that God gave them, Acts 2:17-18, we are sending a message of denial to people interested inour religion. It is sexist and there is no real reason for it to exist. we haved been purged of our sins and so the Fall has no place in the arguement. It was decalred that there is no male or female and we need to trust God on this
Besides there were female church leaders in Paul's days:
"In the church of Phillipi, we find that Eudias and Syntyche filled significant leadership roles. In Romans 16:7, we read of how Paul sends greetings to Junia, a women, to whom he refers as a fellow apostle. It should be noted that some recent translations...have changed the name to Junias. We read in Acts 18:26 that Priscilla was one of the persons wh instructed the young preacher Apollos about the work of the holy spirit...This is further evidence that women had a teaching role in the early church. (39-40)"
The women referred to in that passage are most likely the ones that were using thier newfound freedoms in the church to preach against their husbands and in other distruptive ways.
The Bible sets the precedent on women teaching in the Bible, and we should believe God knew what he was doing when he put them in places of authority

[mbams]

To deny the teachings of the Word of God is to deny God, and to twist the Words of God to our own liking is to deny God and God's authority.

I pray you will wake up to that.

WesWoodell,

Please don't assume that others who have a different understanding than you are denying the Word of God or twisting it. To do so is rather condescending. Some people, like me, are truly seeking to understand what the Bible is telling us, and come to different conclusions than you.:)

[Dr. E W Bullinger]

Why do they cover their hair? I thought their hair was given to them FOR a covering.
There are two glories and two coverings. The woman is the glory of man and is given a natural covering as her long hair. However this long hair is her glory which need be covered with a hat &c.

[kspchemist]

I think custom must have played on some teachings, look how Jesus said the mustard seed was the smallest seed. We know its not but jesus was trying to prove a point to the people of that time. In that area it would haved been the smallest seed. would you say that jesus didnt know all because he said that? or that his msg wasnt universal? No but for the people of that day it was the way it was. The bible has many example of idears of teaching thgat just dont relate today. People thought people were demon possesed where we today know that it was more a case of mental illness. i could go on. Any way like i said it was just my thoughts and its set in stone.There is a major difference in giving an illistration, and giving a basic teaching on how the church should work. In the first case, I could talk about sheep farming here in the US, but not many people could relate, but go to New Zealand(?) where they do loads of sheep farming and it would relate. In the second case Paul was giving instruction on how the church should be run. He clearly states that women should not be allowed to preach to the whole assembly, but women do have a place to teach other women. Look at Titus 2:3-5, "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphened." This here is the role of the woman in the church. No where in those three verses does it call a woman to preach. The Bible also says in I TImothy 2:12, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp the authority over the man, but to be in silence." Then verses 13-15 gives Pauls reasons for such.

Blanket statement: Some people need to get out of the past...What's this supposed to mean?

[Christler]

In the Old Testament, Out of the twelve different tribes of isreal; Only the Levites could be priest, and enter the Holy of Holies. I wonder did the other eleven tribes think something was wrong with themselves becuase God only allowed the Levites to be priest. Uzziah was the King of isreal and was warned to get out of the Temple for it was not permitted for him to be in the Holy place, and He was struck with Leprosy. Lean not unto our own understanding.
Most people would think that since only the Levites were allowed in the Holy place, that the Messiah should have come through the line of Levites, but He came through the line of Judah. The people was also expecting Jesus to arrive as some Great King of Glory Riding on some white Horse like a knight in shining armour, instead they got a baby :)

[WesWoodell]

WesWoodell,

Please don't assume that others who have a different understanding than you are denying the Word of God or twisting it. To do so is rather condescending. Some people, like me, are truly seeking to understand what the Bible is telling us, and come to different conclusions than you.:)

I don't mean to sound condescending but take it as you will. God says through Paul that females aren't to speak to the church assembly. If a woman has a problem with that then she has a problem with God, not me.

[Christler]

If we use the excuse that we no longer have to follow such an instruction do to the change in culture, society, or qoute unqoute "The Times"; Then I guess we could say that it is perfectly fine to allow homosexuallity, and Gay Marriages, because "The Times" has changed:preach:

[Turpius]

I don't believe women should preach from the pulpit, what Paul gave as instruction was by inspiration of God and not a "cultural" practice that can be discarded as needed.

[Iosias]

I don't believe women should preach from the pulpit, what Paul gave as instruction was by inspiration of God and not a "cultural" practice that can be discarded as needed.
:amen: :amen: :amen: :amen:

[GAL220]

Sould we not also take into account Acts 2:15-17 "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "' In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons & daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood & fire & billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Can we not agree that we ARE in the Last Days?
Also if God says that women will prophesy, how can they give their message, if they are not 'allowed to speak'??
Just a thought, not an argument!!! :D

[Iosias]

Can we not agree that we ARE in the Last Days?
Yes we can NOT agree :)

[analogman]

If we use the excuse that we no longer have to follow such an instruction do to the change in culture, society, or qoute unqoute "The Times"; Then I guess we could say that it is perfectly fine to allow homosexuallity, and Gay Marriages, because "The Times" has changed:preach:Very,Very, good point!!!
But this is a hard one to understand(the woman issue) for me.And we are here to "work out" our salvation with fear and trembling.Thats why Jesus is telling us to come and "reason with Me".We suppose to be always growing and learning In Him.Thats the beauty of it,we will never know it all while we are here on this earth.We know in "part" and prophesy in "part" remember that?? So Hallelujah, lets learn from each other ,not argue with each others views and insights!!!

[WesWoodell]

Sould we not also take into account Acts 2:15-17 "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "' In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons & daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood & fire & billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Can we not agree that we ARE in the Last Days?
Also if God says that women will prophesy, how can they give their message, if they are not 'allowed to speak'??
Just a thought, not an argument!!! :D

That doesn't mean we should ignore the other commands laid out.

God didn't say women aren't allowed to speak, rather God says through Paul that women aren't to speak in the church assemblies.

[beetlequeendiva]

1 corinthians 14:34 (NASB) " Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not prmitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the law also says."

1 corinthians 14:35 (NASB) " And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

Now everyone, I am not into shutting women up. I just want to know what every one feels about this passage of scripture. I believe in following God's word no matter what the cost, and following His Word without complaining for He is Just, and Righteous. His ways are far above our own.
I'm just concerned for the body of Christ, because alot of Saints disregard this passage of scripture, or interpret it to have no effect in todays church. I don't understand why God commands some of the things He commands, but I don't support dissobiedience to The Word of God. Trust me people, I've translated, and translated, and read this scripture from many versions of The Holy Bible, and it is literally saying the same thing over, and over; "not permitted."
How do so many churches get around this passage of scripture?
We discussed this in class the other day, and decided that it's not the actual practice - it's the principle. We should be aware of God's principles and stay within them. Jesus taught that in particular because that's how it was in those times, now adays things are different - the basic principle of women not preaching is still there but not women being quiet all together.

[Christler]

Sould we not also take into account Acts 2:15-17 "These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: "' In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons & daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood & fire & billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Can we not agree that we ARE in the Last Days?
Also if God says that women will prophesy, how can they give their message, if they are not 'allowed to speak'??
Just a thought, not an argument!!! :D
Yes we are in the last day , and yes women do prophesy, but they are commanded not to do so within the Church assembly .

[WesWoodell]

We discussed this in class the other day, and decided that it's not the actual practice - it's the principle. We should be aware of God's principles and stay within them. Jesus taught that in particular because that's how it was in those times, now adays things are different - the basic principle of women not preaching is still there but not women being quiet all together.
If you ignore the teaching then you are ignoring the principle. If you ignore the command then you are ignoring God.

It is amazing to me how people will try to make God's Word say what they want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says.

[Nienor]

It is amazing to me how people will try to make God's Word say what they want it to say instead of accepting what it actually says.

You seem to be doing the same thing when you ignore the verses that talk of female preachers and prophesiers. You are also ignoring the verse that says " there will be no male or female"

[Christler]

You seem to be doing the same thing when you ignore the verses that talk of female preachers and prophesiers. You are also ignoring the verse that says " there will be no male or female"Let us remeber that just becuase the bible gives a recorded account of what people did, that does not mean that whatever they did was acceptable. It is not every instance that God points out that the decision they maid was a correct, or incorrect decision. It is perfectly fine for a woman to share the gospel, but we need to understand that when it comes to sheparding a flock within the church assembly that has been ordained by God; it has been commanded that a woman is not permitted. Why, I don't know, but if God says it, that's good enough for me.

Listen, If we love God like we say we do, that love should be unconditional, no matter what. God does'nt owe us a thing. We can't see something written in God's Word, and say to ourselves " I don't like that verse!:mad: ", "I don't think God as loving as He is would really mean something like that, becuase that would dissapoint me.:o " "well women are preaching these days, and they're preaching with power! " "And I simply love Joyce Meyer:D " I've come to the conclusion that portion of scripture does'nt apply to todays church " "There, that's better." "ah oh:eek: I better find some scripture to back up my new doctrine!" "Let's see..............................um............
I know:idea: What about Precilla, and that other girl that expounded the scriptures to that guy!", "and the prophetes, yea, yea, but wait a minute; I don't think they were Pastors of a church?" ah who cares I like it better for women to preach, and that's where I stand.

[Christler]

Prophesying simply means to be inspired by god.
If I see someone in the grocery store,and The Lord though the gift of discernment informs me that someone in the store is going through a major hard time, and he inspires me to go to that person,and say something like." Hi, listen I don't know who you are (or I may know them it does'nt matter) "Hang in there, trouble does'nt last always,trust in God, He'll bring you through,be encouraged.

Believe it or not I would have just prophesied to her/or him, becuase The Lord inspired me to say that to that person.

Let us not be Christians that try to live as close to the edge of dissobedience,
hoping to still be within our rights, Let our love for Him abound all the more untill we please Him with our sacrafices of the things that we would desire to see, or have for the sake of trying to walk upright before him not compremising the least of His commandments. If we're not sure; It would be a better display of love to follow what is written as instructions to the church in The New Testament.

[WesWoodell]

You seem to be doing the same thing when you ignore the verses that talk of female preachers and prophesiers. You are also ignoring the verse that says " there will be no male or female"No, I'm not.

1.) That verse you are referring to about male and females prophecying is referring to the day of Pentacost in Acts 2 - that prophecy was fulfilled. Not only that, but there is no mention of female "preachers" in the Bible because there weren't any (because of God's command that still applies today). Thats not to say women can't prophecy today, but they aren't to do so in the church assembly when men are present (this is a command from God).

2.) The verse you are talking about which mentions there will be no male or female is referring to our true spiritual forms. There will be no male or female then, but while we are on this earth there is.

[thecrucifiedlife]

1 corinthians 14:34 (NASB) " Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not prmitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the law also says."

1 corinthians 14:35 (NASB) " And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

Now everyone, I am not into shutting women up. I just want to know what every one feels about this passage of scripture. I believe in following God's word no matter what the cost, and following His Word without complaining for He is Just, and Righteous. His ways are far above our own.
I'm just concerned for the body of Christ, because alot of Saints disregard this passage of scripture, or interpret it to have no effect in todays church. I don't understand why God commands some of the things He commands, but I don't support dissobiedience to The Word of God. Trust me people, I've translated, and translated, and read this scripture from many versions of The Holy Bible, and it is literally saying the same thing over, and over; "not permitted."
How do so many churches get around this passage of scripture?
How do people get away with this. Well, in my experience people don't like following the Bible , it seems to go against their flesh. This scripture along with so many others people don't want to follow, so they form committees and they have discussions on how to not obey certain scriptures. Now they may not call it that or even realize that that is what they are doing but they are. Now the scriptures about grace and God loves you, people really support those but the one's that are more challenging they explain away.