Celtic Orthodox Church

[OrthodoxDragon]

Can anyone tell me whether the celtic orthodox church (both the Irish and British versions) is actually recognized as Orthodox or are these groups just orthodox catholics as it where?

I did some research but really couldn't find to much clear info.

Thanks......

[Suzannah]

Helo!
There is no Celtic Orthodox patriarch. The only Orthodox churches in Ireland are under the Romanian, ROCOR, Bulgarian, and Greek, I believe.

it's important to note that many new age groups have attempted to revive pre-schism Irish Christianity...the Culdees, etc. :rolleyes: I think this is where the majority of the problems lie.

Try this site, it was down earlier but has a lot of info:

http://www.orthodoxireland.com

[OrthodoxDragon]

I didn't think there was a Patriarch. Their pages dont' seem to explain things very well at all and I think that may be the point if ya get the drift..Thanks for the link :)

[Suzannah]

for more funnies, try this one:
www.celticchristianity.com (http://www.celticchristianity.com)

:rolleyes:

[OrthodoxDragon]

the site is http://www.celticchristianity.org/ and its one of the sites I read...don't they sound just weird? lol

[Suzannah]

the site is http://www.celticchristianity.org/ and its one of the sites I read...don't they sound just weird? lol
Just went there...lol! That's a different site...the one I posted looks like it has finally "died" ...goody!!! The .com site was a big promoter of the "Jesus was a Druid" crowd....it was a lot of the "Culdee history and philosophy" (mainly invented and fantasy mixed in.) Oh well! The other one, orthodoxireland.com
is run by a Romanian Orthodox priest, I believe...Fr. George, I think. Anyway, we DO have the first Irishman ordained as an Orthodox priest in Ireland for the first time in centuries..the newstory is on that site...that's worth a Guinness! :)

[OrthodoxDragon]

*Raises a pint * :)

[Rilian]

That celticchristianity site does look a tad bit odd. The language they use reminds of some of the breakaway traditionalist Anglicans who form their own churches with names like "The True Holy Anglo Catholic Church" with Bishop Bob, diocese of his garage.

OrthodoxDragon, I go to an Antiochian Mission and I from what I've heard from some people there is a small group of parishes in this country under the Antiochian jurisidiction which practice a Western Rite instead of the Eastern one. I have no idea what the services are like (Latin, modified Anglican Prayer Book, Celtic, etc.). That might be a place to look for some information. I also saw on a page linked off our mission, comeandseeicons.com, some icons of Celtic saints from the pre-schism church; namely Patrick, Brigid and Brendan.

[Suzannah]

That celticchristianity site does look a tad bit odd. The language they use reminds of some of the breakaway traditionalist Anglicans who form their own churches with names like "The True Holy Anglo Catholic Church" with Bishop Bob, diocese of his garage.

OrthodoxDragon, I go to an Antiochian Mission and I from what I've heard from some people there is a small group of parishes in this country under the Antiochian jurisidiction which practice a Western Rite instead of the Eastern one. I have no idea what the services are like (Latin, modified Anglican Prayer Book, Celtic, etc.). That might be a place to look for some information. I also saw on a page linked off our mission, comeandseeicons.com, some icons of Celtic saints from the pre-schism church; namely Patrick, Brigid and Brendan.
^_^
I tink ye ha' th'right tinkin' sorrrrrrrrrr....

:D
If you that one a tad odd, you should have seen the other of the same name, but .com.

According to that site, the Culdees never left Ireland, but went "underground" for hundreds of years, until the "teaching" could be resurrected...:o ..and Jesus was a Druid, :eek: and the Culdees practiced forms of ancestor worship and magic, therefore, it is now perfectly acceptable in this present age, to revive these ancient "Christian" practices... Meet us all down at the stone circle every full moon to practice these "ancient Christian rites"...:rolleyes:

[Rilian]

Jesus was a Druid? Was that before or after he and Mary Magdalene settled down and had kids? ;)

[Suzannah]

Jesus was a Druid? Was that before or after he and Mary Magdalene settled down and had kids? ;)Go to stone circle, run around it seven times whilst chanting the names of the seven days of the week in Gaelic, and you might find out! :D

[OrthodoxDragon]

7 times?? I thought it was 8! LOL!

[Suzannah]

7 times?? I thought it was 8! LOL!
Well, now you see??? This is what comes of revealing ancient secrets to the world...they never get it right...if you did it 8 times, you negated all the energies...plus, it must be done in the hour of Mercury, on Tuesdays only, and oh I forgot: you must have in your right hand, a golden sickle!

[OrthodoxDragon]

hmm...i have a mind to write those people and tell them that all their sites do is A. cause confusion to people like me..who are catechumates or are trying to find the right church still. and B. um...LIE about what they are....

[Suzannah]

Yep!!! Agreed!

[Sergius_Lucius]

Well, now you see??? This is what comes of revealing ancient secrets to the world...they never get it right...if you did it 8 times, you negated all the energies...plus, it must be done in the hour of Mercury, on Tuesdays only, and oh I forgot: you must have in your right hand, a golden sickle!

Oh, sickle is a Druids' simbol!.. Then the Communists should be the real succesors of Druids. They hanged sieckles everywhere (together with hammers ;) )

[Amandine]

Actually, I think there is an Oriental Orthodox church that is called British Orthodox. Connected with the Ethiopian I think.
-Catherine

[Rick of Wessex]

Hi, Catherine.

Actually, I think there is an Oriental Orthodox church that is called British Orthodox. Connected with the Ethiopian I think.
-Catherine

The British Orthodox are a diocese of the Coptic Church.

In XC,
Rick

[Rick of Wessex]

Hello, everyone.

This so-called "Celtic Orthodox Church" is a bogus uncanonical group.

Celtic Orthodox Christian Church - Akron, OH. This group uses a ritual called the Stowe Missal, a rite not approved for use in the canonical Eastern Orthodox Church.

This - and many other uncanonical groups - can be found here:

http://vagante.narod.ru/OtherOrthodox.html (but be patient, it takes a long time to load)
http://a_g_green_jr.tripod.com/OtherOrthodox.html (faster US mirror site)

In XC,
Rick

[Eusebios]

*Raises a pint * :)
Raising an imaginary cyber-pint meself!
Eusebios:)

[Suzannah]

Oh, sickle is a Druids' simbol!.. Then the Communists should be the real succesors of Druids. They hanged sieckles everywhere (together with hammers ;) )
Sergey! That's really true, isn't it??? I just realized that the sickle is indeed a Druid symbol. It represents two things: one, the phase(s)of the moon and second, the "harvest"....huh! The Druids must have been "early Communists"...in fact, looking at their societal structure, they were! The Druids would have corresponded to the Party members...interesting paralllel!!! :)

[Michael the Iconographer]

Raising an imaginary cyber-pint meself!
Eusebios:)

Considering that I am German, I will raise a half liter of Paulaner Hefeweissen to my Irish-American Orthodox brothers and sisters! (from the German-American Orthodox Convert)

[Polycarp1]

That celticchristianity site does look a tad bit odd. The language they use reminds of some of the breakaway traditionalist Anglicans who form their own churches with names like "The True Holy Anglo Catholic Church" with Bishop Bob, diocese of his garage.

OrthodoxDragon, I go to an Antiochian Mission and I from what I've heard from some people there is a small group of parishes in this country under the Antiochian jurisidiction which practice a Western Rite instead of the Eastern one. I have no idea what the services are like (Latin, modified Anglican Prayer Book, Celtic, etc.). That might be a place to look for some information. I also saw on a page linked off our mission, comeandseeicons.com, some icons of Celtic saints from the pre-schism church; namely Patrick, Brigid and Brendan.
Rillian, bless you!! That line in the first paragraph gave me the best belly laugh I've had in quite a while, over something that has been a burden to my heart. :) ^_^

[Rilian]

Thanks, I'm good for one of those about once every year.

[Matthias]

I love funnies!

[AlanMeirion]

Can anyone tell me whether the celtic orthodox church (both the Irish and British versions) is actually recognized as Orthodox or are these groups just orthodox catholics as it where?

While the Patriarchal Orthodox Churches might not accept the Celtic Orthodox Church (British Eparchy) as being in communion with them, they neverthless are genuinely Orthodox. If the Patriarchs were to officially check up on their faith and orders they would find that they are genuine, even though not in communion with them. I am friendly with members of the Eparchy and can vouch for them.

All Orthodox Christians are Orthodox Catholics so the "just" expression should not really mean anything unless one is seeking to imply that a church is a false one.

There is no requirement within the Canons that require a church to be in communion with a patriarch in order to be Orthodox, so one must be very careful not to offend against Christian charity in suggesting that such a church is not genuinely Orthodox. Unfortunately this is a common mistake made by many converts to the Orthodox Christian faith. You might care to read Fr. Alexander Schmemann's article on Canonicity which should help to clarify the matter, (I am prevented from including the link by this forum service, but look for the web page The Problems of Orthodoxy in America posted on the Internet by Jacob's Well the web site of the Diocese of New York & New Jersey, OCA)

Unfortunately there are some bodies who do use the name Orthodox in their descriptions who are genuinely not Orthodox. One should be extremely careful not to sin by lumping churches like the Celtic Orthodox Church (British Eparchy) with them. For that matter to sin by not showing respect for any Christian or Christian body, such behaviour is not Orthodox. It is best to ask what Our Lord's attitude would be to them and seek to reflect that in our own attitudes.

We must pray that one day all Orthodox, and for that matter all Christians, will be at one with each other, both those in communion with the Patriarchs as well as those like myself who are not. In the meantime we must seek to draw closer to Christ as a first priority rather than set ourselves up as demi-patriarchs of our own judging others on their standing in Christ and Orthodoxy.

I hope this is a help.

Pax Caritas ............. +Alan

[Philip]

While the Patriarchal Orthodox Churches might not accept the Celtic Orthodox Church (British Eparchy) as being in communion with them, they neverthless are genuinely Orthodox. If the Patriarchs were to officially check up on their faith and orders they would find that they are genuine, even though not in communion with them. I am friendly with members of the Eparchy and can vouch for them.

There is more to being Orthodox than a checklist of correct beliefs. Further, it is hard to imagine how a church that is not in communion with the rest of Orthodoxy can honestly confess 'We believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church'.


There is no requirement within the Canons that require a church to be in communion with a patriarch in order to be Orthodox, so one must be very careful not to offend against Christian charity in suggesting that such a church is not genuinely Orthodox.

The whole of Tradition disagrees with you, for the Body of Christ can not be divided.


Unfortunately there are some bodies who do use the name Orthodox in their descriptions who are genuinely not Orthodox. One should be extremely careful not to sin by lumping churches like the Celtic Orthodox Church (British Eparchy) with them.

Their own webpage states that they we established by the Syrian Church are in communion with the Coptic Church. Sounds to me like they are Oriental, and thus, not Orthodox.


We must pray that one day all Orthodox, and for that matter all Christians, will be at one with each other, both those in communion with the Patriarchs as well as those like myself who are not.

We do not need to pray that all Orthodox will one day be in communion, for they already are. We should, however, pray that all Christians find their way home to Orthodoxy.

+Alan

Are you a bishop?

[Romanos]

[post deleted by Romanos]

[Shubunkin]

The .com site was a big promoter of the "Jesus was a Druid" crowd....


:eek:

[Fish and Bread]

The church with the best claim to be the successor to the Celtic Christians is actually the Anglican Communion, in my view. The majority of the Celtic bishops voted to affirm the Roman calendar and essentially merge with the folks converted by St. Augustine of Canterbury, the first Archbishop of Canterbury. That church would, of course, eventually become known as the Church of England, who's primate is the Archbishop of Canterbury, who also serves as the worldwide head of the Anglican Communion.

John

[xristos.anesti]

I am all for Celtic Orthodox. I mean surely they do have some heterodox view (ie. drinking Guinness and not Ouzo or Vodka) but I think we can deal with that.


On a more serious note:
Someone said above that there is no requirement to be in communion with other Orthodox to actually be Orthodox (or to that extent).

Very wrong! Communion is everything. Communion is the Church.

It just can not be.

[ShiFuBill]

We are the continuation of the churches who originally brought God's Word and Sacraments to people in Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas before the year 1000.


hehehe

[Romanos]

Dear Alan,

I wish to apologize if I have offended you or any Orthodox Christian in any way by my previous post. I had made a small, humorous remark in the one on this thread, which I meant no real disrespect by. However, in reading your post, I became uncomfortable with the sarcasm of my remark and thought it best to delete my comments altogether.

Incidentally, a good bit of my ancestry is Celtic/Welsh and I do entirely support an Orthodox presence in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

Thank you for bringing these issues to everyone's attention.

In Peace,

Romanos