The Great City

[visionary]

In your studies on the "great city".....you found many and wonderful coorolations that indicate you which city it could possible be. Please share what you have gained in understanding and how you came to this point in time...I understand that all opinions can change...but I believe that by sharing we can all learn.

[Sephania]

Vis, perhaps you should give scriptural reference or just post it. Many are not as fluent as you are. :)

There are many 'great cities' in the Word

Resen
Gibeon
The Great City of Jeremiah
Nineveh
Or the one of Revelation which is Spiritualy called Egypt and Sodom? Where our L-Rd was crucified?

[ShirChadash]

Vis, perhaps you should give scriptural reference or just post it. Many are not as fluent as you are. :)

There are many 'great cities' in the Word

Resen
Gibeon
The Great City of Jeremiah
Nineveh
Or the one of Revelation which is Spiritualy called Egypt and Sodom? Where our L-Rd was crucified?

Erm... uhm, I think I misunderstood what was being asked here and voted hastily LOL! :sorry: Sowwy. What was the question again?? :confused: :doh: :blush:

[Sephania]

Now if this was asked in a different part of these fora we know what the answer would be. ;)

[mjterry87]

Does she mean a great "holy city"? Because if not I love Tel Aviv.

[visionary]

You are right, I forgot to include the verse from which the "great city" was taken from.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

[koilias]

You are right, I forgot to include the verse from which the "great city" was taken from.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.Revelation seems to suggest that the Great City is Babylon (aka Rome), see Rev. 18:

18 "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What like this great city?' [i]19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.' 20 "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and [you] holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!" 21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

...This in mind, it makes more sense that the "great city" is Rome than Yerushalayim (or Alia Capitolina), who should not be seen as Sodom and Egypt. I don't see a good case that the prophets (Isaiah or Jeremiah)have Jerusalem in mind. It seems to me that Rev. 11 is identifying the spiritual state of the world, then dominated by Rome, the city which was also an empire, which all the kings of the earth served economically, politically, spiritually. Although Yeshua was crucified in Jerusalem, it was in the empire of the "great city" in which he was martyred. Just my two cents.

[Marjorie]

I was going to say that it seems clear that Jerusalem was meant, but now koilas's post is making me doubt that! I shall be thinking about this.

The Revelation of John/Yehochanan is probably my favorite book of the Scriptures.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[visionary]

Mine too....I have been facinated with it for a couple of decades. I keep bring the Ot into Rev ever day to see how it fits.

I have brought the ceremonial Lev 23 into Revelation as it is so full of imagery of the Heavenly sanctuary and its final services for mankind. We had the spring time fulfillment when Yeshua was on earth for His first coming. So we look to the fall feasts to have a fulfillment in the second coming. Therefore I search the scriptures to understand how does it fit.

I have taken every clue, in the imagery that there is in Revelation looking for other prophets who were given similar visions, to see if they had more or at least different insights as to what they saw of the same events so that I can piece togather a better understanding of what God wants us to know and be prepared for here in the end days.

I truly believe we are the last generation, and that all prophecy will shortly come to pass. I expect that the pace will pick up and like lockes in a tumbler, once they have been clicked into place we are that much closer to having eternity with Yesha starting with His wedding supper.

[Marjorie]

Mine too....I have been facinated with it for a couple of decades. I keep bring the Ot into Rev ever day to see how it fits. Oh yes! I read Revelation before I read Isaiah and Ezekiel (in full), and you can imagine how surprised I was to find passages I had loved in Revelation practically verbatim in the Nevi'im.

The ceremonial/sacrificial vision of Revelation is probably my favorite thing about it, as well as its depiction of God's love for mankind-- the same love given to Yisrael in the time of the prophets-- being perfectly fulfilled in the person and people of Yahshua Ha'moshiach.

The vision in Rev. 4, the wedding supper in Rev. 19, and the closing words in Rev. 22 (along with the related passages in the OT and the other NT books) are basically the foundation of my beliefs as a Christian.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Sephania]

Vis , have you done a study on Sodom and Egypt to see why the great city here is linked with them spiritualy? I have read that there may have been certain code names used during the time of the writing of Rev. , some place it duringthat crazy Nero's time and that would explain Rome being like Sodom. I believe I read some where and also so depicted in Biblical movies, Nero being Homosexual or Bisexual at least. Then there are the Roman baths of that time and I think alot of that stuff was going on in Roma then too.

When you see something is spiritual and it isn't 'good' spiritual you should look to see what 'kind' of Spirit it is speaking of. In this case I see the spirit of Homosexuality and violence ( Sodom) and the spirits of Polytheism ( Egypt) and the place where these two spirits reigned was in Ancient Roma.

I could be totally off, but that is what I see at this moment.

[visionary]

Vis , have you done a study on Sodom and Egypt to see why the great city here is linked with them spiritualy? I have read that there may have been certain code names used during the time of the writing of Rev. , some place it duringthat crazy Nero's time and that would explain Rome being like Sodom. I believe I read some where and also so depicted in Biblical movies, Nero being Homosexual or Bisexual at least. Then there are the Roman baths of that time and I think alot of that stuff was going on in Roma then too.

When you see something is spiritual and it isn't 'good' spiritual you should look to see what 'kind' of Spirit it is speaking of. In this case I see the spirit of Homosexuality and violence ( Sodom) and the spirits of Polytheism ( Egypt) and the place where these two spirits reigned was in Ancient Roma.

I could be totally off, but that is what I see at this moment. I have not read any studies the of Roman relationship to the spiritual Sodom and Egypt but what you said makes sense.

[In Christ Forever]

I also try to link OT and NT to revelation and it just seems that the Great Harlot/City/mystery babylon is Jerusalem.
In fact, it appears revelation is showing 2 beasts as 2 nations. One with 10 kings being given authority by God Himself to attack the beast of the earth with 2 horns/kings and utterly burn her with fire. Symbolically and biblically, the 10 kings could be the 10 tribes of Israel while the other would be the 2 tribes of Judah, and in essence being brought together as one. This is how I viewed it earlier this year and will probably do a commentary it on early next year.

reve 17:16 "And the ten horns["House of Israel?] which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot[House of Judah?], make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

revelation 1: 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Jeremiah 2:11 At that time it will be said To this people and to Jerusalem, "A dry wind of the desolate heights [blows] in the wilderness Toward the daughter of My people -- Not to fan or to cleanse -- 12 A wind too strong for these will come for Me; Now I will also speak judgment against them." 13 "Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!" 14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from wickedness, That you may be saved. How long shall your evil thoughts lodge within you?

[visionary]

In Christ Forever

How do you reconcile the verses that indicate that in the latter days after the time of the gentiles are fulfilled, the time comes again for all of Israel to repent and see Yeshua as their Messiah "in the fullness of time"?

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Do you have a timeline that takes into account....

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

I am interested on your thoughts on how to harmonize these two seemingly contradictory events for end times.

[Sephania]

In Christ, you are not allowed to teach in here, I have seen your opinions elsewhere and they are certainly not MJ/Israel friendly.


Now who would be called jews that weren't jews? Those not in Christ? Any views?


It shows a temple of God, and Altar and those who worship there. This would be symbolically, satan's kingdom, the Old convenant lawless religion. :) We don't welcome views like that in here, sorry.

[koilias]

Symbolically and biblically, the 10 kings could be the 10 tribes of Israel while the other would be the 2 tribes of Judah, and in essence being brought together as one.
:eek:


This is sad...

The logic to arrive at this interpretation of Revelation just defies me...Talk about the exegetical cartwheels involved...It is only to plain to guess at what it's deep-seated motivation is. :sigh:

[visionary]

:eek:


This is sad...

The logic to arrive at this interpretation of Revelation just defies me...Talk about the exegetical cartwheels involved...It is only to plain to guess at what it's deep-seated motivation is. :sigh:

Be not said, having the 12 tribes of Israel the only ones involved in the last world events, does not make literal sense. For this time around, the whole world will be involved. Narrowing the beasts to the twelve tribes warps reality.