We die to the law of sin and death

[ShirChadash]

***just a note -- we had had a number of people coming in to the MJ forum starting threads stating that believers die to the Law of G-d when they come to faith in Y'shua. So I just started my own thread (this one) at that time, so you may find this OP is pretty testy. LOL. Sorry... fed up when I wrote it, at the sad lies that permeate the faith-life we've been handed by the "church", I wrote this rather aggressiveily.***

We do NOT, I repeat DO NOT die to the Law of G-d when we become believers in Yeshua. Yeshua did NOT come to free us from the teaching of G-d (forgive us Abba). He came to set us free from SIN. Yeshua did NOT come to free us from the responsibilities of relationship -- and the very instructions for LIVING in relationship -- with G-D!

Believers die to the law of sin and death when they choose instead the yoke of Yeshua, who gave the "laws" of G-d to Moses -- as a Jew, Paul explained to his hearers using a well-understood principle in Judaism that they die to the law of sin and death when they are in faith (and given LIFE) in Yeshua -- remember, no man can serve two masters?? One either follows the laws of G-d according to His Spirit or he by default follows the law of sin and death according to the flesh. The Jews understood that when one dies, he is no longer responsible to follow the Torah of G-d -- he is literally dead to it... and Paul was simply teaching them, using this understanding, that a believer is dead to the law of sin and death when he is in Yeshua who paid the penalty -- we are dead to the law to which we were previously bound (sin and death, as unbelievers) and now free to embrace the Law of G-d and let it rule us instead!

Remember what Yeshua died for, and what He rose again for... He did not die to free us from G-d, from G-d's Laws, or from His own very self (the Living Word - the LIVING TORAH of G-d). NO! We die to the law of ***sin and death*** -- NOT to G-D, nor to His Laws, nor to His Son and salvation -- but to sin and death so that we may be in relationship again with HaShem (G-d) and LIVE (that's action) this life in relationship with Him... and Torah (Teaching) is G-d's instruction for how we do just that -- LIVE in relationship with Him.

In Yeshua, we are freed from the slave master of sin in order to become slaves to His Righteousness (thereby becoming truly free), and to become holy through the washing of the Word (this happens only by allowing His Word to be that to which we conform our lives, the Law by which we live).

The negative understanding of the word "law" is the heritage Christianity has from the hellenized societies and their anti-G-d worldview. The Torah (teaching) of G-d is a beautiful, loving gift from our Abba to us, just as a good father sets rules for his household and his children are blessed to live in accordance with them -- and suffer from the natural consequences of rebelling and choosing another way. If we gentiles want to be "children" in the home of our Abba Father, G-d, we do well to learn how it is He expects His children to walk and how to live in relationship with Him.

Shabbat Shalom,
~Z~

[visionary]

It reminds me of the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE... and if Talmadim is correct as I think he is on this point. THE LIFE is in the MOST HOLY...which we are to become as the Holy Spirit dwells in us FULLY. That is how you find the covenant fully in the heart. The DAY of JUDGMENT (for some) and the DAY of ATONEMENT (for others) will be like a wedding for Yeshua and His Bride. If we by faith, do boldly into THE LIFE (MOST HOLY) with Yeshua, then we look not forward to death but life, and why could it not start right then... forever eternal life. Enoch walked with God and was not for God took him.

[ShirChadash]

Remember to read C a R e F u L l Y ;)

Romans 7 Do you not know, brothers - for I am speaking to men who know the law - that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?.... 4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Did the Law of G-d bind gentiles before we came to faith in Yeshua? Nope. What law bound us then? The law of sin and death. It was a written code against us -- and how?? As I said above -- when one lives within the "Law of G-d" one is blessed to be living in accordance with it. And when one lives outside of G-d's "Law"?? Well, again, one is subject to a master -- everyone is... either G-d's Law rules our lives according to His Spirit, or the law of sin and death rules our lives according to the sinful, fleshly nature. SO if we live outside of G-d's "Law" we are subject to the prevailing law in our flesh -- sin and death -- for TORAH IS LIFE and to live according to Torah IS our very Life in Yeshua the Torah-giver.

Deut 30:15-20

15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."


Deut 32:44 So Moses came with Joshua F29 the son of Nun and spoke all the words of this song in the hearing of the people. 45 Moses finished speaking all these words to all Israel, 46 and He said to them: "Set your hearts on all the words which I testify among you today, which you shall command your children to be careful to observe--all the words of this law. 47 For it is not a futile thing for you, because it is your life, and by this word you shall prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess."

[ShirChadash]

It reminds me of the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE... and if Talmadim is correct as I think he is on this point. THE LIFE is in the MOST HOLY...which we are to become as the Holy Spirit dwells in us FULLY. That is how you find the covenant fully in the heart. The DAY of JUDGMENT (for some) and the DAY of ATONEMENT (for others) will be like a wedding for Yeshua and His Bride. If we by faith, do boldly into THE LIFE (MOST HOLY) with Yeshua, then we look not forward to death but life, and why could it not start right then... forever eternal life. Enoch walked with God and was not for God took him.

:clap: :thumbsup:

[Sephania]

If many would only understand that Yeshua is the Torah, and the Torah is the tree of life, that same tree that stood in the garden that Adam refused to take hold of and we all know what happened by that one mistake! The Torah was always there, it is HaShems Holiness, by that I mean how to be around him and interact with each other in harmony with creation as he originally made it. When we believe in Yeshua we are free to return to that garden in no shame for we then love the truth, and that truth has truly set us fre, while sin or the tree of good and evil enslaved us and doomed us to death.

[ShirChadash]

:amen: and :amen: and :amen: and :amen:

I'd rep you iff'n I could do so, Zayit.

Yes and :amen: !

When one begins to really think about what we are being "fed" to understand the Word to mean in key passages and issues, it is easy to see that it is nonsense to think Yeshua's death freed us from the "burden" of living in relationship with the Father in the way He has asked us, as His children, to do so. Following G-d's teaching/Torah is anything but a burden... and Yeshua said, "my yoke is easy, my burden light." And His yoke is Torah. And His burden is obedience to G-d's instructions for living.

As the Giver of Torah and the very Living Word of G-d, Yeshua said this when He handed down the teachings of G-d to Moses in the first place:

Deut 30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

[Sephania]

:amen: Yes, very near, but few think it to afar off. :(

It was the same thing he offered in the garden, 'listen to me and follow the one commandment I give you ( don't eat from the tree KG&E) and you will live eat from it and die.

After that disaster in the garden I think the L-RD figured he'd better nudge them to know the right answer ;) :

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE! , that both you and your seed may live: D'varim 30:19

HELLLLOOO!!! :)

[visionary]

How many can even conceive what fullness of the Life in Christ is? How many can even imagine living forever? If more people consider the eternal life now, and the Words of the Eternal One on how, since He has been doing it from eternity, then the concept can spring forth into life and grow into a mature plant capable of producing fruit and like the fig tree in Yeshua's parable, while it is still just leaves....He returns.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Some of the leaves, of the life in the eternal spirit are

Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

As I see Yeshua talking about the door, I see the final step from the Holy to the Most Holy on the Day of Atonement when we become one, united for all eternity, and oh what rejoicing there will be.

[TracysTribe3]

If many would only understand that Yeshua is the Torah, and the Torah is the tree of life, that same tree that stood in the garden that Adam refused to take hold of and we all know what happened by that one mistake! Zayit:

Would you mind explaining this a little more - specifically where you get it from?

Thanks,

Tracy

[ShirChadash]

Bump ttt.

:wave: psssst, Zayit :wave: :cool: