Is this right?

[Nossa-the-Lame]

Ok, I was thinking and chatting, and I wanted to know from all you guys, what re yur stances on invitro fertilzation and artifical insemination? How do you feel about a husband going outside sex to inpregnate his wife? If you say its wrong from a biblical stance, then please support it with scripture, if you say its morally wrong, well I don't need much of an explanation ;) Thanks again!

[Sephania]

Well, isn't Biblical to do with morality? HaShem said that Adam 'knew' his wife and she conceived, Abraham knew his wife Sarah and conceived, Jacob knew Rachel and after awhile, many, many years, in HaShems will she conceived.

If you study many of the couples in the bible you will see that they too had fertility problems and back then it was a disgrace for a woman and a man to not have a child.

Abraham and Sarah
Jacob and Leah
Jacob and Rachel
Hannah and Elkanah ( Samuel's parents)
Zachariah and Elisheva
and I am sure many that I can't think of right now.

Remember a child is a gift from G-d, and just as abortion is wrong so it trying to conceive outside G-ds will and G-ds will says inside a woman.

Now I am sure you know the understanding about Onan, and his sin? This is the same reason that artificial is wrong, it is there in the words themselves, ARTIFICIAL or UnNATURAL, against nature, or how HaSHem made things to function in his creation.

Just as a FYI those fertility clinics provide the men with 'unclean' magazines ;) to 'help' them provide the nessesary fluid for the AI. According to Yeshua that is lust and that baby would then be a part of a lustful, unnatural, act, not the act that the L-RD made it to be.

This is another way man has become dependant on man, and not G-d. If you look at those couples in the Bible you will see that prayer and G-ds timeing did bring them a child.

An ancient way of choosing man's understanding and knowledge and 'science' to combat infertility? Abram and Hagar, and we all know what disaster that has brought the whole world, right down to this day.

[Pray4Isrel]

G-d opens and closes the womb... therefore I feel other means to impregnate one's self outside of the marriage is not a good thing. Adoption, however, is a wonderful alternative!

[ShirChadash]

G-d opens and closes the womb... therefore I feel other means to impregnate one's self outside of the marriage is not a good thing. Adoption, however, is a wonderful alternative!

I have to say, I agree.

[Shimshon]

agreed, along the same lines. If G-d wants someone to have a child. He will give them one...or 12 ;)!. And at 90 yrs of age even. If G-d wills it, it will happen. I see no scriptural stance that shows it was better or acceptable to force G-d's hand in anything. But every scriptural evidence that waiting and having faith for what G-d wants to bring about is key to our blessings.

[Katydid]

While I don't agree that it is biblically wrong, my husband and I had discussed it and decided against it. Now look, we have two of our kids running around. Basically, what we said was, do we want our adopted child, (if it came to that) knowing that they were our second choice. That we tried every treatment under the son before we "settled" on adopting. We couldn't bear to see our child feel that way, so we chose not to. Now not even a year later, we got pregnant. So, while I don't see biblical evidence that it is wrong, I don't believe it is the best way.

[Sephania]

I think the 12 Arabs nations should be Biblical reason enough! That was (and still is) one hard lesson to learn, not to do it your way! HaShem is not Burger King! :D

[ShirChadash]

HaShem is not Burger King!


:eek: SNORT! ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[Nossa-the-Lame]

Ok, thanks everyone for your replies. Personally, I feel that the scripture about Onan "spilling his seed" and then being "smited" by G-d I feel has more to do with him not fulfilling his duties as being a brother among otherthings. He was jealous that the child concieved would not be his own, so he did what he did to make sure no conception would happen.

But yeah, I ask for some personal reason's, I won't go into detail, but due to the poisons(chemo) I have recieved, I might not be as "potent" as I was before hand, and before I got heavy chemo I took precautions so that if things turn out badly I could still possibly have a child. BUt yeah, keep them comming

[Katydid]

I think the 12 Arabs nations should be Biblical reason enough! That was (and still is) one hard lesson to learn, not to do it your way! HaShem is not Burger King! :D
I tend to disagree. Sorry, but Abraham went and slept with ANOTHER woman, not trying to get his wife pregnant, but her handmaid. Now, sorry, but if you think about it, without modern medicine, Nossa wouldn't be here. Without relying on doctors to help him, he wouldn't exist, so are you going to say that Biblically, it is wrong for us to use doctors to cure diseases that HaShem hasn't created natural remedies for? To me it is the same thing. You are saying to leave it in His hands, so do you only feel that way about everything, or do you only feel that way about things you personally agree with. Sorry to sound harsh, but I dealt with infertility, it took us 2 years to get pregnant, and those were the worst 2 years of my life. So yes, to me this is very personal. My husband and I made our decision, but I could never ask anyone else to make that same decision, or condemn them if they did.

[Shimshon]

HaShem is not Burger King! :D
Would the slogan be "Do it MY Way!"?:scratch:

[Nossa-the-Lame]

Would the slogan be "Do it MY Way!"?:scratch:

LOL ^_^

[visionary]

I tend to disagree. Sorry, but Abraham went and slept with ANOTHER woman, not trying to get his wife pregnant, but her handmaid. Now, sorry, but if you think about it, without modern medicine, Nossa wouldn't be here. Without relying on doctors to help him, he wouldn't exist, so are you going to say that Biblically, it is wrong for us to use doctors to cure diseases that HaShem hasn't created natural remedies for? To me it is the same thing. You are saying to leave it in His hands, so do you only feel that way about everything, or do you only feel that way about things you personally agree with. Sorry to sound harsh, but I dealt with infertility, it took us 2 years to get pregnant, and those were the worst 2 years of my life. So yes, to me this is very personal. My husband and I made our decision, but I could never ask anyone else to make that same decision, or condemn them if they did. just because natural remedies are not promoted in this country does not mean that God has not provided them for the diseases. Just go accross the border into Mexico just south of California, and you will find a hospital that has an incredible success rate using natural remedies for even those cases that the doctors have sent home to write their wills because there is nothing more that chemo, surgery, and radiation can do for them.

[Sephania]

I tend to disagree. Sorry, but Abraham went and slept with ANOTHER woman, not trying to get his wife pregnant, but her handmaid. Now, sorry, but if you think about it, without modern medicine, Nossa wouldn't be here. Without relying on doctors to help him, he wouldn't exist, so are you going to say that Biblically, it is wrong for us to use doctors to cure diseases that HaShem hasn't created natural remedies for? To me it is the same thing. You are saying to leave it in His hands, so do you only feel that way about everything, or do you only feel that way about things you personally agree with. Sorry to sound harsh, but I dealt with infertility, it took us 2 years to get pregnant, and those were the worst 2 years of my life. So yes, to me this is very personal. My husband and I made our decision, but I could never ask anyone else to make that same decision, or condemn them if they did.
He only slept with her at Sarah's urging, because all his attempts did not make her pregnant and the L-RD had promised him a child, an heir to who all the earth would be blessed, but they didn't trust the L-RD to see that through even as Sarah passed from her 60's to 70's to 80's, think how long SHE waited before doing this desparate measure, and still it showed a lack of faith, of trust that HaSHem would do as he said, and through Sarai. There are some that will tell you that physically they don't have the 'wholeness' to get pregnant, yet alone carry a child, yet they do, with much prayer and trust and not just once either!

I have read your other posts BS and this surprises me though:


Biblically, it is wrong for us to use doctors to cure diseases that HaShem hasn't created natural remedies for?

Man has what G-d hasn't? :scratch: this makes no sense except that you are saying you trust in man ( doctors) over the one who man them and you and I?

That 'natural remedie' you speak of that HaShem has not created could not be made by man. Man makes nothing except to take what HaShem has already created, or discovers something already there.

[visionary]

I am an example of one the doctors said could not get pregnant. Six doctors determined that it was impossible for it to happen. But God and I had a talk and I would have two girls two years apart.

By faith, I had no worries as to how this would be fulfilled. One night I got a "tap" on the shoulder and heard " tonight" and immediately was brought to mind about the prayer conversation I had and knew it was tonight. I nudged my hubby and said "tonight", and it is amazing what men can do in their sleep after all it was about eleven o'clock at night and my hubby had just finished a 14 hours run and since he was on twenty-four call, would be back at it in five hours. Sure enough nine months later, my first daughter was born in the arms of the doctor who said before during and after I had the child, you can not have children. I just kept saying but God said I will have two girls.

One year and a half later at that same time in the night, I was again woken with a tap on the shoulder and the words " tonight" and knowing what this meant I again nudged my hubby with the words " tonight"...this time his eyes went wide open and he asked "are you sure?" I said yes, and I have today two girls almost two years to the day apart.

They are both miracles, they were both declared impossible by all the doctors examining me, delivering them and the one who went in and did a tubal ligation to make sure it didn't happen again. This doctor said that it took four extra hours to do the surgery because of the difficulty in even finding the tubes. It should have been a simple procedure since I had just delivered the second one just eight hours before.

May you have a serious talk with the Lord regarding this issue, and let it be settled in your heart, what the Lord wants in your life. He is the Father of all good gifts.