women

[FollowerofYeshua]

When women are unclean durring that time of the month what does that mean? Does it mean that we are to do no work or what? Is it like a time off from everything?

Shalom
Follower of Yeshua

[Nossa-the-Lame]

When women are unclean durring that time of the month what does that mean? Does it mean that we are to do no work or what? Is it like a time off from everything?

Shalom
Follower of Yeshua

Man if that was the truth, then I wish I was a girl....but its not ;) When a woman is "unlcean" that means shes having her period. Durring that time she basically doesn't sleep with her husband, or anyone for that matter. Thats all to my knowledge, I could be wrong.

[visionary]

Sorry, girl...no such luck, it is still a woman's work is never done...no rest, no break. Nice try though.

[Sephania]

Yeah, nice try. :thumbsup: Although a husband should be more helpful during this time for the love of his wife as many go through a rough time with cramps and just feeling plain yucky. You are to separate from sleeping with your husband ( and this means also no sex) and any touching that could lead to sex, yes it is a fence but one that is VERY beneficial ~!

Even with our belief in Messiah we are still under the curse, as is the earth and we await our new bodies. For more information on this please read

Conduct while Niddah (http://www.yoatzot.org/category/21)

Women entrusted with the laws of Niddah (http://www.milknhoney.co.il/holy/19.html)

Messianic views on Niddah (http://www.lightofmashiach.org/women/niddah.html)

[Yael]

Under the Curse?

[Sephania]

Genesis, garden, curse, death......................life in the blood.

[debi b]

There have been studies done that establish a link with having sex during a mentral cycle and a higher risk of cancer.

[FollowerofYeshua]

So it just means you can't have sex durring that time, but you can still do your normal activities? Right. Like I can still play sports and hang out with my friends and stuff.

Shalom
Follower of Yeshua

[Nossa-the-Lame]

yeah, you can still do normal things, the point is for you to stay away from your hubby in any sexual ways, like sleeping or touching in a way that can lead to sex. So yeah, whatever duties you have you must still maintain, withthe exceptions of sex and what not.

[Katydid]

Hey,I say that all us females band together and use FollowerofYeshua's idea. YEAH!!!! Well needed vacations for all.

[Sephania]

:clap:

[Bon]

Tell me someone......does this law require that we actually sleep in separate beds at this time?

Shalom from Bon

[visionary]

Separate rooms too, if possible. Object is to cut the desire (see lust in hubby's eyes) way down.

[The Thadman]

Separate rooms too, if possible. Object is to cut the desire (see lust in hubby's eyes) way down.

That sounds like extrapolation to me, akhthi. :)

Karaite test: SCRIPTURE!

Leviticus 15
19 “‘If a woman has a discharge, and her discharge in her flesh is blood, she shall be in her impurity seven days: and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening.
20 “‘Everything that she lies on in her impurity shall be unclean. Everything also that she sits on shall be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. 22 Whoever touches anything that she sits on shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening. 23 If it is on the bed, or on anything whereon she sits, when he touches it, he shall be unclean until the evening.
24 “‘If any man lies with her, and her monthly flow is on him, he shall be unclean seven days; and every bed whereon he lies shall be unclean.
25 “‘If a woman has a discharge of her blood many days not in the time of her period, or if she has a discharge beyond the time of her period; all the days of the discharge of her uncleanness shall be as in the days of her period: she is unclean. 26 Every bed whereon she lies all the days of her discharge shall be to her as the bed of her period: and everything whereon she sits shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her period. 27 Whoever touches these things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the evening.
28 “‘But if she is cleansed of her discharge, then she shall count to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. 29 On the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her before Yahweh for the uncleanness of her discharge.


Leviticus 20
18 “‘If a man lies with a woman having her monthly period, and uncovers her nakedness; he has made naked her fountain, and she has uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

When she is aware of her period, she counts off 7 days of uncleanliness. Anyone who touches her is unclean unil evening, anyone who touches whatever she sits on, the same. If you have sex during those 7 days, it's bad news. :P If you have sex before the count the man has some on him (which happens often, sometimes the way a couple discovers the beginning of niddah) then he's unclean for 7 days, and anything he sits on will be unclean. :) If her period is abnormally long, she stays unclean untill it's over, and then counts off 7 days before she's clean again. On the 8th day there's a sacrifice for tha abnormality. :)

Where is the principle of sepreate beds and avoiding lust?

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

It is halacha Steve, I am sure you are familiar with it, I know that you don't believe it but there is no Apostolic scripture speaking against this. I think that it's clear that a man shouldn't be laying with a woman in the same bed else he becomes unclean too. The separation too is a beautiful thing and helps to keep a marriage fresh. The man learns self control too as well as has a week to work on his relationship with his wife without the pressure of sex. It is like courting time each month and after she does the mikvah then they come together and it is like the honeymoon night all over.

The divorce rate is practically nill for those who practice this.

[The Thadman]

It is halacha Steve, I am sure you are familiar with it, I know that you don't believe it but there is no Apostolic scripture speaking against this. I think that it's clear that a man shouldn't be laying with a woman in the same bed else he becomes unclean too. The separation too is a beautiful thing and helps to keep a marriage fresh. The man learns self control too as well as has a week to work on his relationship with his wife without the pressure of sex. It is like courting time each month and after she does the mikvah then they come together and it is like the honeymoon night all over.

The divorce rate is practically nill for those who practice this.

That's all nice and good, akhthi. It could have any number of benefits or points of symbolism, but please make sure that everyone knows that it is, in fact, Halachic and not Scriptural, and that it is one Halacha of many. :)

Another interesting point of fact is that Scripture doesn't command the woman immerse either. The Miqvah is only mandated for men who touch her or what she's sat on, and not even her husband when he's "joining her" for her period. :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

I believe the links I provided are clear on that.

Another interesting point of fact is that Scripture doesn't command the woman immerse either. The Miqvah is only mandated for men who touch her or what she's sat on, and not even her husband when he's "joining her" for her period. :)
Really? A man is commanded to wash even if he "spills seed" in his sleep.

Deut23: 10 If there is a man among you who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, he is to go outside the camp; he is not to enter the camp. 11 When evening arrives he is to bathe himself in water, and after sunset he may enter the camp. 12 Also you are to have an area outside the camp to use as a latrine. 13 You must include a trowel with your equipment, and when you relieve yourself, you are to dig a hole first and afterwards cover your excrement. 14 For ADONAI your God moves about in your camp to rescue you and to hand over your enemies to you. Therefore your camp must be a holy place. [ADONAI] should not see anything indecent among you, or he will turn away from you.
This is what the Torah says about a man AND a woman

Vayikra 15 : 16 "'If a man has a seminal emission, he is to bathe his entire body in water; he will be unclean until evening. 17 Any clothing or leather on which there is any semen is to be washed with water; it will be unclean until evening. 18 If a man goes to bed with a woman and has sexual relations, both are to bathe themselves in water; they will be unclean until evening.
I gave links to various sites but I do abide and live by the Messianic view from LIght of Moschiach.

[visionary]

Not all of Talmud is bad....there are blessing to be found in all good advice.

[The Thadman]

I believe the links I provided are clear on that.

Really? A man is commanded to wash even if he "spills seed" in his sleep.


This is what the Torah says about a man AND a woman
I gave links to various sites but I do abide and live by the Messianic view from LIght of Moschiach.

I was referring to the end of a woman's period and the context surrounding that. :-) The idea that a woman must immerse at the end of her period to become ritually clean again is Halachaic, not Scriptural.

The other points I do not argue on. They're a seperate issue. (Excusing the really bad pun.) :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[The Thadman]

Not all of Talmud is bad....there are blessing to be found in all good advice.

The sole reason I brought these points up were to seperate the "good advice" from Scripture, as I feel the line was being blurred (danger Will Robinson! :) ). Not a theological point, but a point of fact.

Peace!
-Steve-o

[By Grace]

If my husband is not at all desirous of sex when I'm having my period, is there a need for separate beds? Some men are really turned off by that idea and have no problem waiting the week, even when they're in bed with their wives.

[Sephania]

19 "'If a woman has a discharge, and the discharge from her body is blood, she will be in her state of niddah for seven days. Whoever touches her will be unclean until evening.
20 Everything she lies on or sits on in her state of niddah will be unclean.
21 Whoever touches her bed is to wash his clothes and bathe himself in water; he will be unclean until evening.
22 Whoever touches anything she sits on is to wash his clothes and bathe himself in water; he will be unclean until evening.
23 Whether he is on the bed or on something she sits on, when he touches it, he will be unclean until evening.
24 If a man goes to bed with her, and her menstrual flow touches him, he will be unclean seven days; and every bed he lies on will be unclean.

I think that's pretty clear. this is another act of our sanctification of the L-rD, it is a separation, in the above translation (CJV) is says in verse 20 "in her state of niddah",

Niddah means --Separation Click on the word/link 'separation' below

15:20 And every thing that she lieth (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07901&version=kjv) upon in her separation (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05079&version=kjv) shall be unclean (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02930&version=kjv): every thing also that she sitteth (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03427&version=kjv) upon shall be unclean (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02930&version=kjv).


So it is a time of separation, not abstinance.

:)

[The Thadman]

So it is a time of separation, not abstinance.

:)

Er, Zayit, the definition listed doesn't seem to warrant "seperation." :) This is what the source you've provided says:

impurity, filthiness, menstruous, set apart
1. impurity
a. of ceremonial impurity
b. of menstruation
2. impure thing (fig.)
a. of idolatry, immorality

The translation -chooses- to translate it as "seperation." :)

What about how it's used here:

Lev 20:21 And if a man 0376 shall take 03947 his brother's 0251 wife 0802, it [is] an unclean thing 05079 (NIDDAH): he hath uncovered 01540 his brother's 0251 nakedness 06172; they shall be childless 06185.

Or here?

2Ch 29:5 And said 0559 unto them, Hear 08085 me, ye Levites 03881, sanctify 06942 now yourselves, and sanctify 06942 the house 01004 of the LORD 03068 God 0430 of your fathers 01, and carry forth 03318 the filthiness 05079 (NIDDAH) out of the holy 06944 [place].

Additionally, men and women become ritually unclean from having sex, too. Does that mean we have to avoid having sex? What about be fruitful and multiply? God commands us to become ritually unclean for a period of time :) This idea of seperation for the sake of ritual cleanliness doesn't seem to stack.

Furthermore, why does this entire section talking about what happens to people who touch the bed exist? It wouldn't make sense if it were assumed that no one was allowed near it due to an act of seperation.

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Sephania]

I am not going to continue this dialogue as this seems to me to be a debate over a woman's issue in a thread called women, of which you are not, not to mention able to debate this.

:)

[The Thadman]

I am not going to continue this dialogue as this seems to me to be a debate over a woman's issue in a thread called women, of which you are not, not to mention able to debate this.

:)

I'm not only speaking and asking questions on my behalf, but on that of my Other Half, too. :)

If you feel I'm treading a line, let's move this over to the Debates forum. :)

I also think there are a couple other threads in there I should pick back up on (schoolwork comes first, though :P ).

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Blueskies]

Hmmm...interesting subject. If we are to take it literally, than a woman should not even touch her children while she is in menstruation. This doesn't make sense.

In my household we treat the "discharge" itself as unclean, and anything touching it as unclean, including clothing and products, washrags, etc, but I stay in bed with my husband. A) I have no other place to sleep. B) Neither of us sleeps well without the other. It would create more problems than it solved. He doesn't find waiting a week to be a problem, and I would refuse regardless. It's not something I would like (ick).

IMHO, from the gut and with no research into the matter, I have to go with letting each person make a decision on this one based on their needs and circumstance. As long as things are kept clean and intercourse is not engaged in, that seems to cover it scripturally. We should keep in mind that these customs were put into place before women had a reliable means of....containing things. Cloth was unreliable at best, and I'm sure the bed was commonly made unclean due to it. Also, there was more involved than tossing rags into a hot wash w/bleach also. I can't remember the last time I had a leak. Staying sanitary was a health issue that had to be dealt with carefully.

Anyway, there's my .02 on the matter.

[Sephania]

Another law that is passe because of the change of times?

I agree Steve, if you would like to furthur discuss this lets go to the debate forum, I just didn't want to be an accomplice in here ;).

:confused: Just a quick ? though, you said your other half, is this your wife? are you married?

[The Thadman]

Another law that is passe because of the change of times?

~blink blink blink~

I agree Steve, if you would like to furthur discuss this lets go to the debate forum, I just didn't want to be an accomplice in here ;).

Okie, I'll start a thread there later on today. :)

:confused: Just a quick ? though, you said your other half, is this your wife? are you married?

Take a close look at my avatar. ;) :D

Peace!
-Steve-o

[Blueskies]

Oh, now, come on. That's unfair. I'm usually the first person to uphold the letter of the law. I'm basing my very humble opinion (which, btw, I made perfectly clear it was my opinion and nothing else) on the fact that only halach states that husband and wife should sleep apart, and no listing in the scripture. Further, I did make it very clear that I had not studied the matter and it was from my initial reaction. Having had the matter brought to my attention, I fully intend to study the matter more fully.

However, unless the two of you are carrying doves to the priests and engaging in ritual washing after every "discharge" in the night, I'd suggest you drop them stones, people!