Parashah 2 ~~ Noach

[Sephania]

Torah Blessing
Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, E-lo-hei-nu me-lech ha-o-lam a-sher ba-char ba-nu mi-kawl ha-a-mim v'na-tan la-nu et To-ra-to Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, no-tein ha-torah. ~~Amein

Week 2 Noah Genesis 6:9 - 11:32

Brit Chadasha Blessing
Ba-rooch ah-ta Adonai, Eh-lo-hay-noo meh-lech ha-ohlahm,
ah-shehr na-tahn la-noo ma-she-ahch Yeshua,v’ha-deebrote shell Ha-breet Ha-cha-da-sha, ba-rooch ah-ta Adonai, notain Ha-breet Ha-cha-da-shah.

Week 2 Haftarah
Yesha'yahu (Isaiah) Isaiah 54:1-55:5 (A)
Yesha'yahu (Isaiah) 54:1-10 (S)

Week 2 Brit Chadasha

Mt 24:36-44
Lk 17:26-37
Ac 2:1-16
1K 3:18-22
2K 2:5

Blessing after reading Torah
Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, E-lo-hei-nu me-lech ha-o-lam a-sher na-tan la-nu to-rat e-met v'cha-yei o-lam na-ta be-to-che-inu Ba-ruch a-tah A-do-nai, no-tein ha-To-rah. ~~A-mein




This is a Torah study based on the yearly cycle. You can read all portions online here Parasha Noach (http://www.familybible.org/Parashot/02_Noach.htm)

Baruch HaShem!:bow:

[Sephania]

First question, what do you think is the reason for the first division of parsha from verse 8 to verse 9?

6:7The L-RD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." 6:8But Noach found favor in the L-RD's eyes.


6:9This is the history of the generations of Noach. Noach was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time. Noach walked with G-d.

Nu, Is it the favor? The geneologies? Was Noah blameless? How did Noah walk with HaShem?

[By Grace]

Were Noah's sons blameless? It says only Noah found favor in G-d's eyes, but yet his whole family was saved on the ark.

[Sephania]

I dont' think that the word is tranlated proberly, I don't believe he was blameless, nor perfect, but his DNA was, and thus his sons were also.

[Sephania]

bump

[visionary]

That would line up with the Book of Enoch and inbreeding problem or should I say cross breeding.... ;)

[debi b]

I have considered the DNA aspect as well.

The word translated as "perfect" is tamim. It is an adjective describing his character. The dictionary definition is whole, complete, perfect, faultless, blameless, innocent, simple, upright, honest. Does that mean that a person that is "tamim" never makes a mistake?

There are some pretty important people that are described this way. One of them is Job. What seems to ring true is that an individual that is tamim can make mistakes but chooses to be clay and let Adonai be the potter.

[ShirChadash]

I have considered the DNA aspect as well.

The word translated as "perfect" is tamim. It is an adjective describing his character. The dictionary definition is whole, complete, perfect, faultless, blameless, innocent, simple, upright, honest. Does that mean that a person that is "tamim" never makes a mistake?

There are some pretty important people that are described this way. One of them is Job. What seems to ring true is that an individual that is tamim can make mistakes but chooses to be clay and let Adonai be the potter.

Was David ever referred to as "tamim"? (just so I can get more of an idea of the usage of the word...)

[koilias]

It is an adjective describing his character. The dictionary definition is whole, complete, perfect, faultless, blameless, innocent, simple, upright, honest. Does that mean that a person that is "tamim" never makes a mistake?

One of those is the Patriarch Yacov, who is described as an "Ish Tam" in distinction to his swarthy brother "of the field" Esav.

The Rabbis take this as meaning upright in character, but qualify it as someone who strives to learn and apply Torah. That is why Yacov kept to the tents. He was studying the ways of HaShem.

Now, obviously Yacov had some character flaws that one may not use to describe "tam" as "innocent" (because he was certainly "underhanded" in the way he stole Esau's blessing). So to be "tam" in Rabbinic culture is to strive for God's blessing more than anything! It is to be single-minded and devoted.

[Sephania]

That would explain it away for Noah, but what of the animals? It says that all flesh had become corrupt upon the face of the earth. It says the earth was filled with violence, wickedness, the yetzer ra.


for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
How had all flesh corrupted themselves ( this flesh includes birds, beasts, and fish besides mankind). ???

Noach was found by HaShem to be a Tzaddik, which besides righteous can mean lawful right? Now what were the laws then and what had mankind and beast broken? I believe it was the 'law of 'kind' .

Thoughts?

BUT, Noach 'found grace' in the eyes of HaShem

'found' matsa ( not to be confused with matza ;) )

Definition
to find, attain to
(Qal)
to find 1a

to find, secure, acquire, get (thing sought) 1a
to find (what is lost) 1a
to meet, encounter 1a
to find (a condition) 1a
to learn, devise
to find out 1a

to find out 1a
to detect 1a
to guess
to come upon, light upon 1a

to happen upon, meet, fall in with 1a
to hit 1a
to befall
(Niphal)
to be found 1b

to be encountered, be lighted upon, be discovered 1b
to appear, be recognised 1b
to be discovered, be detected 1b
to be gained, be secured
to be, be found 1b

to be found in 1b
to be in the possession of 1b
to be found in (a place), happen to be 1b
to be left (after war) 1b
to be present 1b
to prove to be 1b
to be found sufficient, be enough
(Hiphil)
to cause to find, attain
to cause to light upon, come upon, come
to cause to encounter
to present (offering)



I have highlighted above my interest in the this definition. Did the L-RD detect something in Noach that all others didn't have?


The earth was filled with violence - 'chamac'

But what does that mean?

violence, wrong, cruelty, injustice
Injustice,wrong - unlawful even?

The earth was corrupted --- spoiled or perverted? Not in it's original tov state, after each 'kind'?

Why was there specified what kind of wood to use to make the ark?
Is there any signifigance in the Ark's size ? ( besides that it had to hold the amount of animals, beasts, birds,etc, that needed to be on there to keep from extinction). 300X50X30 cubits ( cubit a man's hand top elbow length).

Let's talk about the word Tzohar, the only time it is translated as window in the ark. But what of the other meanings? What exactly was this in the ark?

n m

noon, midday
noon (as specific time of day)
noon (in simile as bright of happiness, blessing) n f

roof
meaning dubious

How did Noach 'know' which were clean and unclean animals, especially since mankind and beast were all still vegetarians at this time?

In verse 18 the L-Rd tells Noach that he will establish his covenant with him. This presuposes that he had a covenant to establish, nu?

QUWM, establish - Debi please give us understanding of how this is used in this instance. :)

And the LORD (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03068&version=kjv) said (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0559&version=kjv), I will destroy (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=04229&version=kjv) man (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0120&version=kjv) whom I have created (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=01254&version=kjv) from the face (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=06440&version=kjv) of the earth; (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0127&version=kjv) both man, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0120&version=kjv) and (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05704&version=kjv) beast, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0929&version=kjv) and the creeping thing, (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=07431&version=kjv) and the fowls (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05775&version=kjv) of the air; (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=08064&version=kjv) for it repenteth (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05162&version=kjv) me that I have made (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=06213&version=kjv) them

Why were only the things of the earth corrupted? , mankind, beasts, creeping things, and birds but not the life in the sea???????

At the end of chapter 6 we see that Noach is walking in total obedience
6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

[koilias]

How had all flesh corrupted themselves ( this flesh includes birds, beasts, and fish besides mankind). ???

Noach was found by HaShem to be a Tzaddik, which besides righteous can mean lawful right? Now what were the laws then and what had mankind and beast broken? I believe it was the 'law of 'kind' .

Thoughts?


...I'd be interested to know how "all flesh" was corrupted...I'm sure the midrash deals with this.

What I know from First Enoch is that the sons of man are corrupted when the b'nei Elohim intermarry with their daughters. 1 Enoch describes that the fallen b'nei Elohim teach them the violent and dark arts as well as an advanced culture which pollutes the earth. Because of this, HaShem sends Enoch to report to the b'nei Elohim that they shall not find "pleasure" in seeing the survival of their offspring (thus the flood). Contrast this with HaShem's words at the transfiguration: "This is My son, in whom I am well pleased".

[Sephania]

Could that corruption have also happened with beasts? ----> dinosaurs? teradactyles? the mosters of the deep? Dragons of medieval times? ?? There are some weird references like the scales of leviathan. the L-rd also asks in reference to him if he can make a covanant ?

Sodom and Amorah were also convicted of "violence" so I think this means that violence is wrong kind with wrong kind, not natural, not the way HaShem made for kind to be with kind, one of each sex.

Nu?

[debi b]

Now, obviously Yacov had some character flaws that one may not use to describe "tam" as "innocent" (because he was certainly "underhanded" in the way he stole Esau's blessing).

HMMMM......I would disagree - we will talk about this when it comes up ;)

[Sephania]

Could this also refer to the curse from the garden? ON the serpent's offspring?

3:15I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel."

[rooster]

First question, what do you think is the reason for the first division of parsha from verse 8 to verse 9?

6:7The L-RD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground; man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." 6:8But Noach found favor in the L-RD's eyes.


6:9This is the history of the generations of Noach. Noach was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time. Noach walked with G-d.

Nu, Is it the favor? The geneologies? Was Noah blameless? How did Noah walk with HaShem?

Could it be that he was "blameless" "among the people of his time". His criteria was other people of his time and thus he was judged righteous in comparison with them.
So with his comparitive righteousness, God showed him grace and choose him to be the father of generations.
Then comes another interesting question, would noah be found "blameless" "in our time"?

[debi b]

Was David ever referred to as "tamim"? (just so I can get more of an idea of the usage of the word...)

Yes

1 Ki 9:4 (in this verse it has a prefixed prep "b")

David uses this word many times. 2 Samuel (4 x's), Psalm 18 (4x's), Psalm 101 (2 x's)

Tamim comes from a geminate (the great imposters :)) so it will often appear as "tam".

[Sephania]

In chapter 8 we see that new things come into being because of the change brought about by the breaking up of the 'great deep'. We see the introduction of Rain and clouds in which it is gathered and also wind.

What do you think is significant about the 17th day of the seventh month and the ark coming to rest? Afterwards this day would be the 2nd day of Sukkot. Do you think that this has prophetic meaning of things to come, and the return of the Ark of the covenant?

What significance do you find in the Raven (first-sent) VS the Dove ( second sent)?

Raven - Black - Listed on the trief list of unclean fowl. Thus this should mean that there were only two aboard . Isaiah refers to the raven inhabiting what seems like hell in chap34
Dove - White - other references, as a sin offering and also as the Ruach HaKodesh -- now is this clean or unclean?


Why did Noah sacrifice when they left the boat, was this a thanksgiving offering? Or for the earth?

Other 'New' things because of the earth dramatic change

(verse 22) seedtime and harvest ( planting and reaping)
Cold and Heat ( before it was temperate)
Winter and summer ( before it was same temp year round)
Day and night ( a complete distinction now that the canopy is gone, true darkness falls)
Chapter 9
And fear and dread from the animals of all mankind, which at this very juncture is odd as the ration of man vs beast at this time is rather lopsided.

Every moving thing is given now for food, why? And now there is a blood requirement, different from Cainans time.

Do you take this as literal?


9:6Whoever sheds man's blood, by man will his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man.


Man is to punish man for the shedding of blood?

What are your thoughts on the rainbow? This again another 'new' thing produced by the change in the earth.
Do you find any significance in the colors? Also it is mentioned in Revelation , that there is one about the throne, does this mean that there is rain in heaven?
Or that this rainbow in heaven is reflected on the earth each time it rains here, thus enforcing the covenant with the earth?

In earth as it is in heaven..............

[Sephania]

Could it be that he was "blameless" "among the people of his time". His criteria was other people of his time and thus he was judged righteous in comparison with them.
So with his comparitive righteousness, God showed him grace and choose him to be the father of generations.
Then comes another interesting question, would noah be found "blameless" "in our time"?
I rather think it means lawful in morality, not righteous of his own self. I am hoping that debi will comment on this word, it is very intriguing. :)

[debi b]

Gen 6:9
These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man (tzadik) and perfect (tamim) in his generations, and Noah walked (this is a hithpael - reflexive) with G-d (HaElohim).

How are we to understand this? Some say it is because he had uncorrupted DNA, some say because he didn't have power he was held to a different standard, some say......

But we do know some things. Adonai said that the thoughts of man was continually evil except for Noah. And Noah alone was spared from the flood. We know that those who do not follow Him are destroyed, but He protects His own. This is what we know.

[Sephania]

Any thoughts on post 17?

[debi b]

It is interesting to me all the specific information we have regarding the times during the flood. I have some ideas and some are just speculation at the moment. But, when that much specific info is communicated I know it is for a reason. So, I watch and wait.

I think we have had certain things intoduced so far with no prior explanation. That to me is significant.

With regard to the offerings of Cain and Abel - there was an expectation of what should have been brought. Noah knew what clean and unclean was. Noah knew how to sacrifice. And it does specify it was a burnt offering.

This is out of order....
Gen 3:8
And they heard the voice of YHVH Elohim walking in the garden in the cool (ruach) of the day (hayom); and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of YHVH Elohim among the trees of the garden.

This verse is interesting to me - the word translated as 'cool' is ruach with a prefixed preposition lamed usually meaning "to" or "for", sometimes it shows possesion and is not translated (prepositions in Hebrew are full of nuances) and the word translated as 'the day' is a noun meaning 'day' with the definite article which can also mean "today".

Sometimes you can't string these things together right away. It is interesting tho - and there is alot of comment later in Scripture about the issue of "if you hear his voice TODAY"...

[koilias]

Sometimes you can't string these things together right away. It is interesting tho - and there is alot of comment later in Scripture about the issue of "if you hear his voice TODAY"...Knowing Hebrew transforms your reading of scripture, doesn't it Debi? You read quite well...I must say you have possession of something that Rabbis have!;)...Extremely intriguing thoughts! Would like to see you follow up on them--if you get a flash of insight, let us know...

One view is that "towards the wind of the day" can be taken literally as the hour coming towards sunset. Now, I believe this is around 5 o'clock by our reckoning, around the tenth hour by Roman and Jewish (first century) reckoning . In Pirke de Rabbi Eleazar, I believe this is exactly the hour of the day when Adam and Eve eat the fruit and hide themselves and hear HaShem walking in the garden and are shortly expelled from the garden. Extremely intriguing to me is how the "tenth hour" comes into the first chapter of the fourth gospel, when the disciples behold Yeshua "walking" and go walking after him, asking him:

John 1:35 Again, the next day, Yohannan stood with two of his talmidim. 36 And looking at Yeshua as He walked, he said, "Behold the Lamb of God! " 37 The two talmidim heard him speak, and they followed Yeshua. 38 Then Yeshua turned, and seeing them following ["following" and not "hiding"], said to them, "What do you seek? [to seek is "lidrosh", which is to "search out" the word of G-d, from which we get the word "midrash"] " They said to Him, "Rabbi" (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), "where are You staying? [IOW, "let us stay with you to have your instruction, i.e. Torah"]" 39 He said to them, "Come and see [IOW, "follow me and your eyes shall be opened"]." They came and saw where He was staying [the garden of Torah, the tree of life], and remained with Him that day (now it was about the tenth hour).


...46 And Natan'el said to him, "Can anything good [Eve also beheld that the fruit was "good" for eating] come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see [and she "saw" that it was good]." 47 Yeshua saw Natan'el coming toward Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite [the seed of the woman] indeed, in whom there is no guile! [the serpent had more "guile" than all the other creatures]." 48 Natan'el said to Him, "How do You know me?" Yeshua answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree [in Jewish tradition the tree of knowledge was a "fig tree" because Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves as soon as they beheld that they were naked...later (in Zechariah) the fig tree is a place of gathering in the Messianic Age], I saw you [Did Yeshua foresee in the garden that one day Natan'el would behold the fruit of the tree of life?]. " [i]49 Natan'el answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of G-d [that is, the son of David, Psalm 2]! You are the King of Israel!" 50 Yeshua answered and said to him, "Because I said to you, 'I saw you under the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these." 51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open [the gates of Pardes], and the angels of G-d ascending and descending upon the Ben Adam [instead of guarding the way to the tree of life]."

[Sephania]

That is awesome Koilias! I have always wondered about that fig tree, I figured that it was his way of saying that he ( Yeshua) saw him when he wasn't within eyesight of seeing him, instead of looking back in the past.

[By Grace]

Would this be related in any way to the fig tree that Y'shua cursed when it didn't have fruit, even though it wasn't fig season?

TIA,

[koilias]

Would this be related in any way to the fig tree that Y'shua cursed when it didn't have fruit, even though it wasn't fig season?

TIA,
Interesting thought...I suspect it does have something to do with it. Why they were blind and did not see the light of the Meshiach...Hmmm...Never thought of it this way...Any thoughts? Zayit and Visionary?

[visionary]

The blindness and not being able to see the light has more to do with the relationship with Yeshua. As is in the garden of Eden when in the cool of the evening, the opportunity to communicate with our creator, whom I would nor be surprised, came every shabbat to visit personally with His children, is a special time of exponential enlightenment.

In a knowledge of God all true knowledge and real development have their perfect source. Wherever we turn, in the physical, the mental, or the spiritual realm; in whatever we behold, apart from the blight of sin, this knowledge is revealed, if we but ask. The curse of the fig tree is the example of ultimate distruction of disorder. I have trees that I have planted and when they are struggling to live, they will shoot many wild shoots, none of them fruitful, and it weakens the whole plant. Yeshua told the parable of the plant that got all the attention, in hopes of more fruit, and when it did not, it was destroyed. The fig suffered under the fate of poor growth.

Whatever line of investigation we pursue, with a sincere purpose to arrive at truth, we are brought in touch with the unseen, mighty Intelligence of our Redeemer and Creator. I think this thread is pulling wonderful gleanings from the Word. I am tickled to see such gems and enriched by them. May we continue to be inspired to see Yeshua in it all.

The mind of man is to be brought into communion with the mind of God, the finite with the Infinite. The effect of such communion on body and mind and soul is beyond estimate when brought into Holy REALms. Many talk the talk and walk the works, but miss out on the cool of the evening walks with the Redeemer, that happened with Adam and Eve long ago. Sin still separates us from the joy of this Holy Communion. We still fear, and could easily weaken, then in a desparate attempt to stay spiritually alive, produce lots of leaves, new shoots but no fruit.

[Sephania]

I would be interested in hearing what Debi thinks of being under the fig tree. The aramaic would be nice to study about on this as well, Is Steve still around?

[Sephania]

Also does anyone see any signifigance in the olive leaf the dove brought back?

10He stayed yet another seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the teivah (http://www.familybible.org/Bible/HNV/genesis.htm#N21). 8:11The dove came back to him at evening, and, behold, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off. So Noach knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. 8:12He stayed yet another seven days, and sent forth the dove; and she didn't return to him any more.

[Sephania]

Why was only one son of cHam cursed for what his father had done to Noach?
9:22Cham, the father of Kana`an, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 9:24Noach awoke from his wine, and knew what his youngest son had done to him. 9:25He said,
"Cursed be Kana`an;
A servant of servants will he be to his brothers."

Why did Noach call HaShem the G-d of Shem? Was he not the G-d of Cham and Yefet?

9:26He said,
"Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem;
Let Kana`an be his servant.

[visionary]

And are the sons of Kanan servants of the God of Shem?

[debi b]

Genesis (Bereshit) 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise (to cause one to be circumspect), she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate.

It really does just say fruit and does not specify what kind of fruit it was. It is interesting to me that she was interested in becoming circumspect. And we also see that her husband was with her. I get the idea that he was present during this whole thing. Yet he didn’t speak up and he was the one with the first hand information.

I have not really thought about the fig tree, but thought these references interesting.

Hoshea 9: 10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the first ripe fruit in the fig tree at her first season…

Proverbs 27: 18 Whoever guards the fig tree shall eat its fruit; so he who waits on his master shall be honored.

[debi b]

Why was only one son of cHam cursed for what his father had done to Noach?


9: 18 And the sons of Noah, who went out of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth; and Ham is the father of Canaan.

9: 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him.

10: 21 To Shem also, the father of all the Eberites, the brother of Japheth the elder, to him were children born.

So the birth order is Japheth, Shem, and Ham. For the order to be given differently than the birth order is generally a clue of something. There is something special about Shem. And I think Scripture bears this out.

So Noah was inside his tent and he (Noah) uncovered himself.

9: 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.

How did Ham see his father’s nakedness? He would have had to make an effort to do this. Often to see nakedness is a sexual reference. Canaan was not Ham’s first son. (10: 6 And the sons of Ham: Kush, and Egypt, and Put, and Canaan) So why mention so many times that he was the father of Canaan? There are those that speculate that this was a sexual abuse and that Canaan was involved.

9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him.

Whatever happened Noah knew it. The prophecy he (Noah) gives is far reaching.

[Sephania]

THE first D&D?

[debi b]

What does D&D mean? :scratch:

[Sephania]

LOL, Drunk and Disorderly. ;)

[Sephania]

Seriously, I was just browsing through my World bible atlas and If I am figuring this out properly, Abram was born only two years after Noah died, 1996BC.

[koilias]

LOL, Drunk and Disorderly. ;)

Wha...???:o

And here I was wondering how Dungeons and Dragons was figuring into this discussion...:doh:

[Sephania]

Ah well, didn't you know? the flood happened because the dragon wouldnt' stay in his proper estate (his dungeon). :D

[debi b]

Seriously, I was just browsing through my World bible atlas and If I am figuring this out properly, Abram was born only two years after Noah died, 1996BC.

There are other accountings that would put Abraham at 58 years old when Noah died. It does put a bit of color to things tho when you realize who was "on the scene".....