Question for messianics only please!

[brentsbaby612]

I'm sorry to ask this question but I read something and I have to know! How do Messianics feel about plural marriages? I don't want this to be a debate on it, I just want to know what you think and why. I already know how mainstream christianity feels so.. Messianics Only Please! :) Thanks-Erin

[simchat_torah]

How do Messianics feel about plural marriages?

Judaism strictly forbids it.

shalom,
yafet

[P_G]

Why would you want more than one?



Pro 19:14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers, but a prudent wife is from YHVH.



Blessings

PG :wave:

[iitb]

Why would you want more than one?Glutton for punishment?
/me runs and hides

[Hix]

LOL thats what I thought when I first read that *ducks for cover*

[Pray4Isrel]

Polygamy was never condoned in the Bible to begin with.

[brentsbaby612]

the whole subject make me feel kinda eeky!:eek: but I find it weird how so many great men of the bible had more than one wife!(ex. Abraham,Jacob,David,ect.)
Plus I read something in the talmud the other day that said a man could have no more than 4 wifes!!!:scratch:

shhh! nobody tell my husband!!.. :P

[Henaynei]

There are things that are/were specifically cultural during certain times of history - because they occured or because people of G-d engaged in them, does not mean they were ordained by G-d...

As an example:
Currently this is why you can see visual prostitutes in congregations and members sporting demon enulating "body art" and hairstyles - and why even yet, G-d uses those people.

G-d only had one perfect vessel and it was His specific purpose to die because He WAS perfect.... the rest of us..... well, I'm grateful that ain't us!!

[Adiel batKelev]

was it not G-d's perfect will 1:1 from the beginning?

[The Thadman]

I'm sorry to ask this question but I read something and I have to know! How do Messianics feel about plural marriages? I don't want this to be a debate on it, I just want to know what you think and why. I already know how mainstream christianity feels so.. Messianics Only Please! :) Thanks-Erin

Many great figures in the Bible had many wives, and they were described as God's blessing. Nowhere in there Bible does it forbid multiple marriages (two or more women to one man), and there are parts of the Torah that deal with issues that specifically concern polygyny.

In short, I feel that God condones it, and there is a rabid phobia that circulates throughout the Judeo-Christian body against it, enhanced by such disasters as the fanatical sect of "True" Mormons out in Utah, and whose who have "multiple marriages" just to have a melange à trois. Simply because it is a cultural taboo, I've heard MANY (most of which are interesting) excuses as to why it should not be allowed or why it is evil, not based in the Bible. Keep in mind, however, that no matter what culture we live in, God's the yardstick we measure up to :-)

For me, however, I think that one is enough, as where God condones polygyny as a choice and blessing, he does not command to everyone. ;)

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

[The Thadman]

Glutton for punishment?
* justinhulsey runs and hides

Imagine how Solomon felt when all of his wives, due to pheromones, were synchronized.

Poor guy...

He's also a prime example when too many wives became a vice. Although he was rich enough to feed and clothe them all, he probably wasn't even able to give them the same amount of "marital duties" as commanded in the Torah.

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

[Henaynei]

Imagine how Solomon felt when all of his wives, due to pheromones, were synchronized.

Poor guy...

He's also a prime example when too many wives became a vice. Although he was rich enough to feed and clothe them all, he probably wasn't even able to give them the same amount of "marital duties" as commanded in the Torah.

Shlomo,
-Steve-oAcutally his very *UN* wise affinity to try to solve political conundrums with marrying the other guy's daughter was the source of the ultimate down fall of the Kingdom, with in permissive infusion of all that pagan worship not only in Israel and Jerusalem but the very bedchambers of the king..... rotting decay from the inmost parts.....

[brentsbaby612]

David and Soloman definitely had too many wifes!! But I don't understand how christians say it is wrong when the Talmud, the Torah, and the Bible do not condemn it? Is this proof of how Christianity has been Roman-ized?(actual question!not rhetorical) I have actually found that most are more open to homosexual marriages than this, yet the bible condemns gay marriage. :scratch: Why is this such a "touchy" issue?
Your thoughts please!!!:confused:

[Israeli]

Shalom in the name of Rabbi Yeshua,

Polygamy was not forbidden in general. Yeshua has many wives in His bride. For the sake of the Gospel in modern culture, it is discouraged.

Israel.

[Henaynei]

Shalom in the name of Rabbi Yeshua,

Polygamy was not forbidden in general. Yeshua has many wives in His bride. For the sake of the Gospel in modern culture, it is discouraged.

Israel.
Question of perfect will and permissive will. If polygamy was ordained of G-d He would have removed more than one rib from Adam ;)

Also in the NT scriptures specify that leaders in the body must be "husband of one wife."

[The Thadman]

Question of perfect will and permissive will. If polygamy was ordained of G-d He would have removed more than one rib from Adam ;)

Also in the NT scriptures specify that leaders in the body must be "husband of one wife."

And those are specifically the "overseers", not the general populace. This, to a degree, mimics what was done in the Priesthood, the Priests marrying one (virgin) wife. There are rulings in the Torah concerning how the average man should treat multiple wives.

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

[Henaynei]

And those are specifically the "overseers", not the general populace. This, to a degree, mimics what was done in the Priesthood, the Priests marrying one (virgin) wife. There are rulings in the Torah concerning how the average man should treat multiple wives.

Shlomo,
-Steve-o
There are also rulings in both Torah and Ketuvim Natzrim concerning how the average man should treat his slaves -- are you saying such rulings give imprimature to slavery as G-d ordained for the average man?? ;)

b'Shalom
Henaynei

[simchat_torah]

It was, after all, Solomon's greatest downfall...

[simchat_torah]

One gives enough of a headache, and you ask for two?

jk ;)

[simchat_torah]

I firmly believe Y'shua gave a commentary on this practice, but I don't have the time to go into detail right now... shabbat is comin up quick...

but I do have time for some quick drive by postings!





bam!

[Henaynei]

One gives enough of a headache, and you ask for two?

jk ;)You watch out!! I'm gonna tell Miss Anna!!

[iitb]

You watch out!! I'm gonna tell Miss Anna!!Wouldn't that just end up proving his point? :D

[Henaynei]

Wouldn't that just end up proving his point? :D
YOU!! For you we are talking contract with the Merv Griffin Corp - to start a new show - American Yenta!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

We WILL find you a vife!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_1_110.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Flavius]

I'm sorry to ask this question but I read something and I have to know! How do Messianics feel about plural marriages? I don't want this to be a debate on it, I just want to know what you think and why. I already know how mainstream christianity feels so.. Messianics Only Please! :) Thanks-Erin
Sadly they both divorced me.I wasn't married to both at the same time,that would be impossible because I would have to clean house and organize shoes all day and let's face it. No man could handle cleaning a bathtub two times a day and get all that greazy scrub they all use.probably have to hire a plumber once a month :o

[Henaynei]

Sadly they both divorced me.I wasn't married to both at the same time,that would be impossible because I would have to clean house and organize shoes all day and let's face it. No man could handle cleaning a bathtub two times a day and get all that greazy scrub they all use.probably have to hire a plumber once a month :o
LOL hehehe LOL

[brentsbaby612]

One gives enough of a headache, and you ask for two?

Not only that, but I don't think any woman would willingly enter into a plural marriage. I wouldn't even marry a man if he told me he planned on marrying another! :) Yes! I'm a spoiled brat who wants her man all for herself!^_^

[brentsbaby612]

Shalom in the name of Rabbi Yeshua,

Polygamy was not forbidden in general. Yeshua has many wives in His bride. For the sake of the Gospel in modern culture, it is discouraged.

Israel.


So have you meet any men with more than one wife in Israel? I heard that it's not illegal there but I still wonder if they practice it.:confused:

[brentsbaby612]

_________________BUMP!!!____________________
(^_^ sorry! I'm sure some of you would like my thread to go bye bye:wave:
but I'm just not done yet!)

[brentsbaby612]

ohhhh! you moved it here! no wonder I couldn't find it!!

[rooster]

Borrowed mostly from J, Telushkin (2001); Jewish Literacy

From what we can infer from the Talmud, none of the Rabbis mentioned inside had more then one wife.

a Tenth century Rabbi,named Rabbi Gershom(Rabbinu Gershom Me'or HaGolah, 960-1028) made a decree(Takkanot; Takanos) banning monogamy and the main reason for doing so is that it is/was regarded as khillul ha_Shem (desecration of God's name). Desecration in the sense that monogamy made practising jews seem to have a lower morality then their monogamous Christian neighbours. Also some guessed that his decree was in part a response to the tension(for lack of a better word) between Torah law which permitted polygamy and torah narrative that seems to speak against it(in the sense that every polygamous relationship mentioned in the bible had miserable endings; Tension between Sarah and Hagar; Leah and Rachel; David; and Soloman)
Prior to this there were no explicit ban against monogamy.
The new isreali state also banned polygamy but allowed the Jews who made aliyah from Arab states to keep their wives but forbid new polygamous mariages.

On top of the ban on polygamy, Rabbi Gershom was also known for banning the divorve of a wife against her will(so we can see that he was either very concern about Jewish morality and women's right or his wife had a pretty tight leash on him and his mouth) and reading other people's mail.

[The Thadman]

There are also rulings in both Torah and Ketuvim Natzrim concerning how the average man should treat his slaves -- are you saying such rulings give imprimature to slavery as G-d ordained for the average man?? ;)

b'Shalom
Henaynei

I feel that Biblical slavery is an acceptable paradigm

Anyone who owned slaves were supposed to keep the rules on slaves, just like anyone who had more than one wife was expected to keep the rules about multiple wives.

Not everyone was a priest, however, nor a slave-owner, nor a polygynist. :)

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

[Henaynei]

I feel that Biblical slavery is an acceptable paradigm

Anyone who owned slaves were supposed to keep the rules on slaves, just like anyone who had more than one wife was expected to keep the rules about multiple wives.

Not everyone was a priest, however, nor a slave-owner, nor a polygynist. :)

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

hmmmm....

/me wonders what persons or people group, being slaves, would agree with your view? Would you agree for your family and children to be slaves?

[brentsbaby612]

Was salvery ever forced in hebrew culture? Usually slavery was a means of reconciling a debt. Which was optional and EXPIRED! ( if you were a hebrew). It might have been better for you to be a slave than for your family to starve. Kinda like biblical bankruptcy. :)

[brentsbaby612]

Would you agree for your family and children to be slaves?

*pondering*
Nope. Wouldn't want to be a second wife either. Doesn't mean though that the option shouldn't be there for those that would!:idea:

[Henaynei]

Was salvery ever forced in hebrew culture? Usually slavery was a means of reconciling a debt. Which was optional and EXPIRED! ( if you were a hebrew). It might have been better for you to be a slave than for your family to starve. Kinda like biblical bankruptcy. :)
While there WAS some debt slavery - much salvery was as a result of war - in which case many of the slavery mitzvot did not apply.

There is the perfect and permissive will of G-d - in some cases he says essentially "since I know you are going to do this - do it this way."

Can you name even once in the scriptures where multiple wives was done right, well or did not bring disaster?? Even the best case in scripture,Ya'acov - he did not treat them right and while from him we do get the 12 patriarchs there was also anger among the sons and attempted murder because Ya'acov favored the son of his favored wife. True, they "learned something" thru it - but we also spent 400 years in slavery and thousands of us died cruel deaths (not even including the slaughter of the babies).

I certainly think G-d could have created a nation just as well through a monogamous realtionship. Did He use Ya'acov's weakness and Laban's trechery yes - but that in no way means it was His perfect will. If it was his perfect will then He would have created Adam and several wives...... but that is *not* the pattern He set before us.

[brentsbaby612]

If HaShem permited it then, then why should it not be permited now? Why is it seen as such a vile thing when it is clearly permited by G-od?

[brentsbaby612]

Can you name even once in the scriptures where multiple wives was done right
Do you know of a monogamous marriage that is without flaw?
Man is not sinless and there for anything he is going to be involved in will have flaws based on that weakness. G-od has never hesitatated to condemn anything against his perfect will. G-od knew that the Israelites would consistantly turn to idolotry. Yet he never said "I know you will do it so do it this way". Also HaShem isn't ever afraid to condemn anything that goes against popular culture . The law of G-od was given for the purpose of man to live by His perfect will. Which we could not without Yeshua.....

[Henaynei]

If HaShem permited it then, then why should it not be permited now? Why is it seen as such a vile thing when it is clearly permited by G-od?

If Hashem permited it then, then why should it not be permited now? Why is slavery seem as such a vile thing when it is clearly permited by G-d?

[WildHeart75]

We went forth and multiplied so there really is no need for it now. The Earth is overpopulated already, can you imagine how it would be if men had multiple wives? your backyard would be a cemetery.

[Henaynei]

food for thought...........
http://www.geocities.com/seapadre_1999/jacksonville.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2964/whatisoverpopulation.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2964/gen1-28.html
http://www.sycophants.info/destroying-environment.html

[brentsbaby612]

If Hashem permited it then, then why should it not be permited now?
I guess, for arguements sake yes that's what I'm asking
Why is slavery seem as such a vile thing when it is clearly permited by G-d?

Well that and plural marriage. I just wanted to point out that it's a cultural thing I think!:)

[The Thadman]

I guess, for arguements sake yes that's what I'm asking

Well that and plural marriage. I just wanted to point out that it's a cultural thing I think!:)

I honestly think that the stigma attached to polygyny and slavery is strictly due to socio-cultural norms.

Shlomo,
-Steve-o

[Mary_Magdalene]

Hey, as long as she doesnt mind cooking dinner every night, changing baby diapers and ironing clothes (i dispise ironing!) she is more than welcome!

Just kidding! ;)

[sojeru]

Hi Hen,

Quote:
While there WAS some debt slavery - much salvery was as a result of war - in which case many of the slavery mitzvot did not apply.

I dont think you have a correct view of what this slavery was.
If there was ever a Hebrew that owned a slave (as a result of war, ie the slave is a gentile)- Halacha says that this will be so that the slave will become a Jew.
So the purpose of slavery was to convert them and have them as a prospering contribution to the community and the world.
So there are many mitzvot that apply.
and the goal is conversion.
Thus, when a Hebrew- the servitude/slavery expires.

the thing about polygamy was never an issue for bible.
His Majesty Yeshuah had never addressed the issue of polygamy either within the 4 books. I know the Talmud itself prohibits men from marrying themselves to more than one wife. One of the purposes of the Talmud is to make the Am haArets into a nation of preists- not just common folk. We dont want any common folk, we want people up to the par of sages.
But again, polygamy was never really an issue.

shalom u'brachot

[brentsbaby612]

Hey, as long as she doesnt mind cooking dinner every night, changing baby diapers and ironing clothes (i dispise ironing!) she is more than welcome!

Just kidding!


^_^

[Mary_Magdalene]

**GodsChosenGirl hiding behind chair and whispering to others cause im not Messianic****

Gen 2:24- For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

regarding Kings w/ multiple wives: Deut. 17:17- He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away;...

just food for thought... oh, btw, im not a feminist or anything-what God wants we should do.

**GodsChosenGirl hides back under chair and shuts up***

[brentsbaby612]

There is no doubt in my mind that Abraham loved Sarah as much as any man could love his wife. Sarah offered her handmaid, and Abraham took her.( And that is why there is strife in the middle east.) Like anything, if it is done right and by the rules G-d placed for it, it can be blessed like any marriage. That's not to say that there won't be problems(twice the wives, twice the problems:)). I by no means would ever want such a life, but i don't look at it as a evil mormon thing were you marry 13 years old girls and there mothers! I have actually met muslems who are happy with there marriage and share it with another woman. Anyway, sorry I'm rambleing! I hate that!^_^
this website pretty much refuted all the quams I had with plural marriage.
http://www.polygamy.com/Reviews/Multiple-Marriage.htm
shalom/Erin

[brentsbaby612]

**GodsChosenGirl hiding behind chair and whispering to others cause im not Messianic****

Gen 2:24- For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

regarding Kings w/ multiple wives: Deut. 17:17- He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away;...

just food for thought... oh, btw, im not a feminist or anything-what God wants we should do.

**GodsChosenGirl hides back under chair and shuts up

Well, since you aren't messianic I will not argue with you. But I do take you post as a question, since none messianics are allowed to ask questions! Let's just put a "What about these scriptures?" there:).
Gen 2:24-- You are competely right, a man should cleave to each of his wives!:)
Deut. 17:17- And this one, well we all know what happened to David and Solomon because of women. Titus 1:6-7 (6.If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;) -compliments this
So what we get from these verses is this: No leader of the church or king should have more than one wife.
Hope this help;)
shalom/Erin

[Mary_Magdalene]

yes. thts what i was getting at with solomon. God does know best, doesnt He?!! :clap:

[brentsbaby612]

yes. thts what i was getting at with solomon. God does know best, doesnt He?!!

Yes! He sure does!!
But just to kinda put it in propective, it's better for a man to marry two women than to be married to one and sleep around with another. I'm sure most people could understand and agree with that.:)

[Henaynei]

yeah, as long as we all agree that is NO excuse to bring home to your wife..... "ah, honey, I still love you just as much, but there is this place that only *she* can fill and, well, we've decided to get married and that we will all live together - cuz' I just can't stay away from her, I'm just torn between two lovers........ - this is a NON-starter!!

I mean, get real......

[Henaynei]

Thing is a man can't be *one flesh* with *MORE THAN ONE* women!!

[brentsbaby612]

yeah, as long as we all agree that is NO excuse to bring home to your wife..... "ah, honey, I still love you just as much, but there is this place that only *she* can fill and, well, we've decided to get married and that we will all live together - cuz' I just can't stay away from her, I'm just torn between two lovers........ - this is a NON-starter!!

yeah, definately don't do it that way unless you want to have NO wives.

Thing is a man can't be *one flesh* with *MORE THAN ONE* women!!

Why is that?:scratch:

[Henaynei]

yeah, definately don't do it that way unless you want to have NO wives.

Why is that?:scratch:
1) "one" denotes wholeness - how can you be "whole" with one woman and then "whole" with another at the same time?? You can not give 100% of yourself to two spouses - never once did it happen, even with the patriarchs.

2) when HaShem drew Chavah from Adam's flesh and bone and made the one two - He then stated how that two should, would and can become one again (as originally created) - the formula for becoming "one flesh" again - HaShem did not take 2 or more wives from Adam's flesh and bone - and He did not say "the three shall become one."

3) HaShem has made it very clear that marriage is a sacred and central tenant of obedience to Torah - numerous laws are addressed to just that topic. If polygamy is G-d's will then why does HaShem never address such a core matter as how many wifes is enough or too many - and the myrid other issues that arise in such a situation? Just as divorce is NOT G-d's will, yet He gives us some rules of conduct concerning such, neither is polygamy G-d's will and yet He has given us some rules (women taken in the lust of battle, etc) for the same reason - the willfulness of our hard hearts that want our way inspite of G-d's direction.

[brentsbaby612]

1. the same way Christ can be whole with his bride (the church is a lot of people)

2.This is my arguement for why monogamy is best. But Adam didn't start out with a roof over his head, does that mean he shouldn't build one?

3. From what I've read and come to know about HaShem, he never holds back from his people the issue's that anger him. He hates divorce, yes, he states that clearly. But He never says anything of the sorts about plural marriage in the bible. Here! this may help!

Common Arguments Against Polygamy
One Flesh
"A man cannot be one flesh with more than one woman!"

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6, Ephesians 5:31, Mark 10:8

"What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." 1 Corinthians 6:16

-How do you become one flesh with someone?
-Does 1 Corinthians 6:16 not apply to already married men?
-Can a man be one flesh with both his wife and the harlot?
-Can a man be one flesh with both his first wife and second wife?

Sexual intercourse joins a man and a woman as one flesh, whether they are married or in sin. 1 Corinthians 6:16 shows that a man, married or not, can be one flesh with a harlot. If married the man is not only one flesh with his wife, but also with the harlot. Therefore, with simple reasoning, we see that man can indeed be one flesh with more than one woman. "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." 1 Corinthians 6:17 To add to this, this doesn't mean he is married to the prostiture as in 1 Corinthians 6:16. For marriage you need a covenant and consumation.
The man who penned Genesis and the words "the two shall be one flesh" was Moses. Moses himself had two wives, Zipporah the Midianite, as shown in Exodus 2:16-21, and an Ethiopian wife as shown in Numbers 12:1.


You have to look at this with an open mind. It took me four years to realize the truth because of my Romanized feminist upbringing. It's really not that big of a deal anyway,I definately don't want to anger anyone over it. And if you live in America you cannot have a plural marriage because we are under Authority of Government, and it IS illegal here. So all you men don't go running off to find more wives!!^_^

[Henaynei]

1. the same way Christ can be whole with his bride (the church is a lot of people) :) not the same - while he may think so, no man is G-d - B"H

2.This is my arguement for why monogamy is best. But Adam didn't start out with a roof over his head, does that mean he shouldn't build one? non-sequitor - using this argument one could justify just about anything ;)


3. From what I've read and come to know about HaShem, he never holds back from his people the issue's that anger him. He hates divorce, yes, he states that clearly. But He never says anything of the sorts about plural marriage in the bible. Here! this may help!

Common Arguments Against Polygamy
One Flesh
"A man cannot be one flesh with more than one woman!"

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5-6, Ephesians 5:31, Mark 10:8

"What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh." 1 Corinthians 6:16

-How do you become one flesh with someone?
-Does 1 Corinthians 6:16 not apply to already married men?
-Can a man be one flesh with both his wife and the harlot?
-Can a man be one flesh with both his first wife and second wife?

Sexual intercourse joins a man and a woman as one flesh, whether they are married or in sin. 1 Corinthians 6:16 shows that a man, married or not, can be one flesh with a harlot. If married the man is not only one flesh with his wife, but also with the harlot. Therefore, with simple reasoning, we see that man can indeed be one flesh with more than one woman. "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." 1 Corinthians 6:17 To add to this, this doesn't mean he is married to the prostiture as in 1 Corinthians 6:16. For marriage you need a covenant and consumation.
The man who penned Genesis and the words "the two shall be one flesh" was Moses. Moses himself had two wives, Zipporah the Midianite, as shown in Exodus 2:16-21, and an Ethiopian wife as shown in Numbers 12:1.
Zipporah WAS Ethiopian ;)

Consumation is the *only* marriage rite mentioned in the scriptures - all other wedding ceremony is inferred from the culture and history. Even when scripture says "as a bridegroom from his bride chamber" it is referring to the place where the consummation takes place.

The man who lays with the harlot has broken covenant with his wife, scripturally he has married the harlot. In B'reeshet G-d says "the two shall become one" not just one flesh. Scripture forbids a man who has divorced and married another woman to go and re-marry the first - G-d calls this adultry - there is a definate point in there realted to this, I know it but I just woke up!!

You have to look at this with an open mind. It took me four years to realize the truth because of my Romanized feminist upbringing. It's really not that big of a deal anyway,I definately don't want to anger anyone over it. And if you live in America you cannot have a plural marriage because we are under Authority of Government, and it IS illegal here. So all you men don't go running off to find more wives!!^_^ LOL - and in all western cultures ;) (unless you're planning to be Morman):D

[brentsbaby612]

No man is G-d. That is definately correct! But I know that when G-d has a problem with something nothing holds him back from stating it as sin. HaShem does not just let his people sin because He knows they are going to do it anyway!Zipporah WAS Ethiopian I think you maybe right about this. But didn't Abraham marry two women after Sarah's death? I do not picture Father Abraham being some sex crazied man marrying women and not loving them.The man who lays with the harlot has broken covenant with his wife, scripturally he has married the harlot. In B'reeshet G-d says "the two shall become one" not just one flesh. Scripture forbids a man who has divorced and married another woman to go and re-marry the first - G-d calls this adultry - there is a definate point in there realted to this, I know it but I just woke up!! I would really like some scripture evidence if you have some. Specifically were the covenant with the wife is broken with a harlot."But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." Is this the scripture you speak of? If so I think maybe this is what it is saying."And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and (Greek 'kai') marry another, committeth adultery against her." Mark 10:11 This verse protects a first wife from the possibility of her husband divorcing her to marry another. You have some very good arguments!:) It's a pleasure debating with you! :D

[brentsbaby612]

LOL - and in all western cultures (unless you're planning to be Morman)

ugh! The mormans still do it illegally! And put a bad name for those who would pratice it obeying G-ds rules!

[The Thadman]

Thing is a man can't be *one flesh* with *MORE THAN ONE* women!!

Who said?

Peace,
-Steve-o

[The Thadman]

1) "one" denotes wholeness - how can you be "whole" with one woman and then "whole" with another at the same time?? You can not give 100% of yourself to two spouses - never once did it happen, even with the patriarchs.

Already addressed :-)

2) when HaShem drew Chavah from Adam's flesh and bone and made the one two - He then stated how that two should, would and can become one again (as originally created) - the formula for becoming "one flesh" again - HaShem did not take 2 or more wives from Adam's flesh and bone - and He did not say "the three shall become one."

What about that woman in Jesus parable who had 7 husbands (brothers kept dying) one after the other? She was "one flesh" with each of them. How did Jesus respond? :-)

3) HaShem has made it very clear that marriage is a sacred and central tenant of obedience to Torah - numerous laws are addressed to just that topic. If polygamy is G-d's will then why does HaShem never address such a core matter as how many wifes is enough or too many - and the myrid other issues that arise in such a situation? Just as divorce is NOT G-d's will, yet He gives us some rules of conduct concerning such, neither is polygamy G-d's will and yet He has given us some rules (women taken in the lust of battle, etc) for the same reason - the willfulness of our hard hearts that want our way inspite of G-d's direction.

He -does- however deal with how you should treat each of your wives: equally. No exceptions. And that's in the Torah. Exodus 21:10-11.

There is only one reason for someone to divorce, and that is sexual shame, literally "nakedness" as laid down in Deuteronomy 24.

Peace!
-Steve-o