Sundown, new day and fasting.

[Seraphim of Alabama]

I read somewhere that, like the ancient Jews, Orthodox consider the new day to begin at sundown. Does that mean that a fast should begin at sundown on the previous day and end at sundown the next day? For example, if today is Tuesday should I start the Wednesday fast at sunset?

Also, could someone tell me the (for lack of a better word) rules for the Wed/Fri fast. Is it no eggs, meat, dairy, and olive oil? Did I miss or add one? Cheers,
Bill

[prodromos]

Hi Bill, welcome to TAW.
We try not to be too legalistic about this. Traditionally, the fast begins at sundown but in this day and age of electricity, it doesn't get dark until much later. Some begin fasting from sundown, some begin fasting at midnight. It doesn't really matter which as long as you remain consistent and don't chop and change to suit yourself.
Is it no eggs, meat, dairy, and olive oil?
That's pretty much it, though you can add wine and seafood with skeletons to the list. If a major feast day falls on a Wednesday or Friday, then wine, oil and fish are permitted.

John.

[Rilian]

We're trying to ease into fasting, so for the W/F fast as of now we just dropped meat.

Father told us a while ago that he and Khouria do what they call a vesperal fast, meaning sundown to sundown. What we do is just go by our normal meal times. So dinner on Tuesdays/Thursdays is fasting, and lunch on Wednesdays/Fridays is as well.

[Seraphim of Alabama]

Hi Bill, welcome to TAW.
We try not to be too legalistic about this. Traditionally, the fast begins at sundown but in this day and age of electricity, it doesn't get dark until much later. Some begin fasting from sundown, some begin fasting at midnight. It doesn't really matter which as long as you remain consistent and don't chop and change to suit yourself.

That's pretty much it, though you can add wine and seafood with skeletons to the list. If a major feast day falls on a Wednesday or Friday, then wine, oil and fish are permitted.

John.


I'm afraid to cook seafood and there's not a lot of olive oil in the food in Taiwan anyway. I use it in my ears when I get a reocouring infection. I hope that doesn't count :-/
Bill

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

I'm afraid to cook seafood and there's not a lot of olive oil in the food in Taiwan anyway. I use it in my ears when I get a reocouring infection. I hope that doesn't count :-/
Bill
No, I'm sure that doesn't "count." :D

[Reader Nilus]

The fast begins at O Gladsome Light during Vespers. If say on Saturday evening your parish Vespers is at 6:00 PM then the fast will begin somewhere before 7:00 PM.
You missed the biggie of the fast, MEAT. No Whoppers on Wed. and Fri.
Reader Nilus

[Oblio]

Like others have said, we are not legalistic about this, and each persons walk is different and should be done with guidance with ones spiritual father. That being said, my father confessor tells me that the daily fast is ideally midnight to midnight so that is what my wife and I, and daughter(s) will keep. Unfortunately I had to leave the conversation prior to the detailed explanation of the difference between the 'fast day' and 'liturgical day', perhaps I will ask him again.

[MariaRegina]

I read somewhere that, like the ancient Jews, Orthodox consider the new day to begin at sundown. Does that mean that a fast should begin at sundown on the previous day and end at sundown the next day? For example, if today is Tuesday should I start the Wednesday fast at sunset?

Also, could someone tell me the (for lack of a better word) rules for the Wed/Fri fast. Is it no eggs, meat, dairy, and olive oil? Did I miss or add one? Cheers,
Bill

My priest told me that typically the fast should begin at sundown.

The main point is to avoid legalism.

So if your priest tells you to begin at dawn or at midnight then do so and fast until the next dawn or midnight.

If you begin your fast at sundown, then fast until the following sundown.

Hope this helps.

And most importantly, the sick are not to fast, according to my priest, as it's against the canons.

So if you are having health issues, your health comes first.

Yet even the sick can fast from chocolates, etc.

So in a sense we should remember that the most important thing about the fast is to fast from sin by controlling our appetite. And to pray while we fast, or the fast can lead to the sin of pride and arrogance.

Hope this helps.
Elizabeth

p.s. Understanding the reason why we fast is so much more important than what we fast from or how we fast. I didn't mention the foods involved for that reason.

PPS I've been told that in some Orthodox monasteries the new monks inquiring into the monastic life are forbidden to fast so that they will not fall into the sin of pride. We have to follow our spiritual fathers. Eating a steak on Wednesdays could be prescribed by our Spiritual Fathers to help us avoid being judgmental, and to humiliate us, and make us feel how others feel when judged. Do you understand what I am saying? Obedience is more important and not judging my brother.

[Matrona]

I prefer to fast from sundown to sundown, but as always, you should follow the guidance of your spiritual father.

[ShiFuBill]

Hi, I was Seraphim of Alabama.

It looks like everyone is split between a choice of midnight or sundown. I think I'll compromise: I'll start at midnight and end at sundown the next day. Do you think that will be okay? ;-)

[Sergius_Lucius]

Of course, there shouldn't be any legalism in fasting but speaking theoretically, I've read lectures on Liturgics and it was said, that in ancient monasteries the food for supper was the same that for dinner (ie they cooked only once a day) so if the day was non-fasting they eat non-fasting food for supper after Vespers, and the fast started only from midnight.

[ufonium2]

Hi, I was Seraphim of Alabama.

It looks like everyone is split between a choice of midnight or sundown. I think I'll compromise: I'll start at midnight and end at sundown the next day. Do you think that will be okay? ;-)
I've heard of people fasting according to both Old and New Calendars, as a sign of solidarity with friends and family in the East, or something to that effect. The people who told me about it seemed to think it was done out of pride (although I don't know these people, so who am I to judge?)

The point is, if they got a blessing to fast according to both calendars, maybe their priest also grants blessings to not fast according to both. That would cut the Nativity Fast down to like two weeks, and totally eliminate the shorter fasts. I should find this priest!

I'm kidding. :) Please don't think I would seriously do this. Legalism is bad, no matter if you're using it as an excuse to do too much or too little.

[Theophorus]

I have heard both midnight to midnight and sundow to sundown. One of the explenations of midnight to midnight was the symbolism associated with that "hour of prayer" ie, the coming of the messiah (birth and second coming), and His resurection, plus the liberation of Isreal in Egypt, all representing a new beginning or something like that.

As is common in Orthodoxy, it is the sincere practice and meaning behind it which is important rather than the letter of the law.