Why didn't god forgive us without jeasus....what's changed?

[domi]

Jesus is the son of god aka god and he died to forgive our sins because when he was sent down by god *himself very confusing* it was because god was ready for forgive us. But if Jesus was god then why would he have to die to forgive us? If he had it in his mind to forgive us then why doesn't he just do that without having to sacrifice himself or n e thing else for that matter........ Talking about forgiving sins what sins have been forgiven and or changed science Jesus died for us. As far as i know from the nice life application bible aka the best bible on the face of the planet..... God punished us by making woman go though child birth and making them subordinate to men and making men work for a living.....which is exaclty what's still going on yah? so what's changed?

Ur little sister to the forums
-Domi

[Serapha]

Jesus is the son of god aka god and he died to forgive our sins because when he was sent down by god *himself very confusing* it was because god was ready for forgive us. But if Jesus was god then why would he have to die to forgive us? If he had it in his mind to forgive us then why doesn't he just do that without having to sacrifice himself or n e thing else for that matter........ Talking about forgiving sins what sins have been forgiven and or changed science Jesus died for us. As far as i know from the nice life application bible aka the best bible on the face of the planet..... God punished us by making woman go though child birth and making them subordinate to men and making men work for a living.....which is exaclty what's still going on yah? so what's changed?

Ur little sister to the forums
-Domi

Hi there!

:wave:


Well, little sister... we need to talk.



Jesus is the son of god aka god and he died to forgive our sins because when he was sent down by god *himself very confusing* it was because god was ready for forgive us.

Only God can forgive sins, and in the Bible, Jesus said,

Joh 8:11 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=joh+8:11&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Jesus didn't die to forgive our sins, He died that his blood might be the final sacrifice for sins.


But if Jesus was god then why would he have to die to forgive us? If he had it in his mind to forgive us then why doesn't he just do that without having to sacrifice himself or n e thing else for that matter........ Talking about forgiving sins what sins have been forgiven and or changed science Jesus died for us.

There is no question that Jesus was/is God... God has natural attributes of omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, eternal, and immutable and moral attributes of lovingkiness, holiness, righteous, just, merciful, loving, faithful and oh, so many more. Jesus has those same attributes that are only for "God"



And... ALL my sins have been forgiven since Jesus died for me and I took that first step of faith in believing what Jesus did and can do.



As far as i know from the nice life application bible aka the best bible on the face of the planet.


Well, I have to agree that the best translation is the one that translates into our lives.



God punished us by making woman go though child birth and making them subordinate to men and making men work for a living.....which is exaclty what's still going on yah? so what's changed?

Well, several things changed.

Salvation is no longer limited to the Jewish people, but to all, to the Jew, the Gentile, the slave, the free person, to men, and to women.

Everyone can be a saint, and everyone can be a priest... that changed from the old covenant.

So... God's got job opportunities for all... and He's got the infilling of the Holy Spirit to get the job done. That's changed from the Old Testament manifestations of the Spirit when the Spirit of God was given for a specific purpose and for a specific time. We have the indwelling and the infilling of the Holy Spirit all the time for direction, for learning, for discerning truth.


Now, I think I would ask you... what changed about you when you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?


~serapha~

[Serapha]

BTW...



:wave:


Welcome to the forums!


~serapha~

[IloveJesusMyFather3:16]

He wants you to obey his commandments but he knows that we're all sinners. He is the most forgiving, loving God ever!! You can kill, steal, lie, cheat, and all sorts of stuff and just ask God to forgive you in humbleness and He will. Jesus created Adam and Eve. They had a choice between perfect earth (basically heaven or like heaven) and the other choice was evil. They decided they wanted to know everything instead of listening to God. Instead of making these people and the people produced by them - suffer judgment - Christ came to earth (from all His riches and heavenly paradise) (VOLUNTERILY) to die on a cross so that we wouldn't have to go thruogh the judgement that was fair. God is always fair. So, instead of passing judgment on US and THEM, He came and died on a cross to save us from our sins. He was beaten and whipped and stabbed and punched and kicked and hit and mocked and shamed and nailed to a cross and had sharp, peircing thorns around His head. He was so mutilated by the torture he (volunterily) recieved that the bible says you could not recognize who He was. The people back then had professional torturers and killers. He did this for us and all He asks in return is that we "believe on him"....and this is simply surrendering your life to him, give your life to him. Jesus has the purest and PERFECT love for us. This is something we know nothing of - unless He shows us. He doesn't love you like a family member, friend, or teacher - someone who will surely hurt your feelings, give up on you, or anything bad. His love is PERFECT. He loves you so much there is NO WAY you could even comprehend. God does not feel hatred at all. He says to love everyone - even your enemies. That's hard sometimes but He does it. ...because He is perfect in all ways. I love you Jesus!!

[StAnselm]

Serapha, what did you mean by this?

Jesus didn't die to forgive our sins, He died that his blood might be the final sacrifice for sins.
I would maintain passionately that Jesus died to forgive my sin - all my sins, past, present and future! But I don't quite know what you're getting at.

Domi, good questions. Just thinking about the first one, it's important to realise that if there was another way for God to save us, he would have taken that way -

Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." ... He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."

(Matthew 26:36-39,42)

No, only the death of the eternal Son of God was sufficient to satisfy God's punishment against our sin. God's justice demands that sin be punished, but God's love caused him to become man and bear that punishment! And only he could.

In dying on the cross, Jesus experienced hell, so that we wouldn't have to!

[Tavita]

Hi Domi,
God couldn't just forgive us without a sacrifice, because we would never know or realise the impact or the terrible thing that sin is without someone or something having to pay for it. We need to see what sin really is, how offensive it is to God. It is so offensive that the 'justice' side of God, said someone has to pay. Don't you feel like that when someone greatly offends you and does something evil against you?... you want to see justice done?

God gave Adam the dominion (control or authority) in this world. When man sinned by listening to satan, he passed that authority over to satan and even came under the dominion of satan himself. He died spiritually, sin caused his communion and relationship with God to be cut off. Because God is a holy God and cannot tolerate sin in His presence, and God hates sin so much that if it's not taken out of the way, we will die spiritually and won't be allowed in heaven, then to pay for sin (punishment) God demands a sacrifice, a perfect sacrifice, with no blemish in it. Because if it had a blemish it shows that sin has affected it. Who would be a perfect sacrifice?.. none of us would do, we have so much sin, besides which, we are the ones that need saving out of that sin. That's why the animals He demanded to be sacrificed in the OT were to be perfect and without any blemish at all. These sacrifices were to show that in the future 'One' would come, the Messiah, to be the perfect sacrifice to take the punishment for our sins. God loved us so much He didn't want us to die and go to hell. So He sent His Son, Jesus, who was perfect and had no sin in Him, to die in our place. God literally placed all the sin in our lives on Jesus on the cross and Jesus took those sins into death with Him (and left them there), so that we would be free of them. So, when we repent (are deeply sorry, and decide to turn away from our sin) and believe in Jesus and His sacrifice for us, we are then washed and cleansed from all the sin in our lives by His blood (that was spilled in death on the cross). And when we approach God now, He doesn't see our sin anymore, He sees the blood of His perfect Son, which took away the sin.
God didn't punish us by making women go through childbirth and making us subordinate to man. That is a 'result' or 'consequence' of sin. (It's actually the 'pain' in childbirth... we would still have to give birth).
What sins are forgiven because of Jesus dying in our place?.... ALL sin.
When you are born again (repent and believe on Jesus) ALL your sin is forgiven, and you are set free of it. And each day you need to be filled with His Holy Spirit to give you the power not to sin again. But, if you do, because we all fail, then:
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Hope this helps ...

[domi]

[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] lol that's alot of poats for one quetion lol and no blessing :( that's not cool :-P hehehe no it's all good....thanks for all the asnwers.....however i find these to be quite confusing .....lol........this could take a while to get though.......i'm so over whellmed.....and then we have serpha here telling me that only god can forgive our sins and jeasus isn't god and then u say jeasus is god and now i'm confused out of my miind.....what is going on here!!!!!!!!! and btw i'm not chirstan i don't know what i am hence nondeminational......i'm 16.........i dunno what i want yet......thanks for all the love guys..... :) And i dunno what ur name is but u have a preaty buttyfly and i lv it btw but ur telling me that god was mad and he watned revenge basicly......and u asked me that if someone did something to me wouod i want to hurt them back well sure i would but that's a human emotion......not one of a all forgiving and powerfull god.

[rogsr]

God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are distinct yet One.

Analogy: The Father is a Spirit, meaning not of material flesh. The Son is the hand of the Father, He is the Agent of God. The Holy Spirit is the hand of the Son. From the Father comes the Son, and from the Father and Son comes the Holy Spirit.

This is what is called the Holy Trinity.

Men ultimately sin against God when we sin. And like in all things, there was justice to be served. God is ultimately Just and equitable so Justice had to be served. If God did not address the issue of sin, if He just let everyone do what they wanted with no consequence He would be unjust. So, the punishment God laid down for sin was death. However, God our Father loves us each like His most precious lamb, so He wanted to save us. And so He sent into the world His Agent, His Christ, to be sinless and thus be worthy to die for all sins. The Father accomplished this salvation in the Lord Jesus. From the Father and Lord Jesus Christ came the Holy Spirit, sanctifier of souls, the seed of immortality, the Life of God. By Faith we accept the salvation given to us from the Father that was accomplished in the Son, when we do this we are baptized with the Holy Spirit and given back what we lost when Man first sinned. Eternity.

Peace, and good luck with your journey. There is only one place to find peace on earth, it is in the Sacred Heart of the Lord, our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

[Tavita]

I'm sorry, I thought you were already a christian. Maybe this would have been better posted in the questions by non christians section.
As rogsr pointed out what you're really questioning is the 'justice' aspect of God. That is only one of His attributes (a quality or feature of a person). God isn't mad and vengeful. Let me put it this way.... what if something awful happened to a friend of yours. Say they get mugged walking along the street and are bashed so badly they die. Would you just say to the killer "It's ok, I forgive you", and walk on? Wouldn't you expect 'justice' to be done? You know, get them arrested and sent to jail forever? That part of you that wants justice done, is a part that God has put inside all of us... we are made in His image.
OK... God didn't want to condemn us and put us in Hell (prison) so He sent His Son to pay for our jail term and punishment. He hates sin so much and loves us so much, His Son took our place.
So now, because our sins are forgiven and wiped out, which leads us to be very thankful, if someone does something against us, like with your friend above, we forgive them because whether they believe in Jesus or not, they're sins are forgiven by Him too. They still need to meet the requirements of the land and have justice served on them though. You can be forgiven of sin but need to face the consequences (or the outcome) of that sin.
Maybe this is still further confusing you, I don't know. I hope you'll find the peace and love that only Jesus can give you anyway. And yes, the Bible says that Jesus is the Son of God and is God as rofsr pointed out.
Bless you..

[Serapha]

and then we have serpha here telling me that only god can forgive our sins and jeasus isn't god and then u say jeasus is god and now i'm confused out of my miind.....

Domi,


Is English your mother tongue?


I never said that Jesus was not God... in fact, I said...


There is no question that Jesus was/is God


...Jesus has those same attributes that are only for "God"


Please go back and read that posting again.


~thanks~

[Serapha]

Serapha, what did you mean by this?


I would maintain passionately that Jesus died to forgive my sin - all my sins, past, present and future! But I don't quite know what you're getting at.





Jesus didn't die to forgive our sins, He died that his blood might be the final sacrifice for sins.


Hi there!

:wave:

Jesus Christ forgave sins before his death on the cross. It wasn't necessary for him to die to forgive us our sins... He was already doing that before he died.


Mt 9:2 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=mt+9:2&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mr 2:5 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=mr+2:5&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Mr 4:12 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=mr+4:12&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Lu 5:20 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=lu+5:20&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Lu 7:47 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=lu+7:47&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Lu 7:48 (http://bible1.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=lu+7:48&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1) And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.



~serapha~

[StAnselm]

Jesus Christ forgave sins before his death on the cross. It wasn't necessary for him to die to forgive us our sins... He was already doing that before he died.
But surely he could only forgive those sins on the basis of his death! Surely he forgives sins because his sacrificial death is certain in the plan of God and his own determination.

[rogsr]

Srapha,

You're trying to say that Jesus' Blood was the final atonement for sin. Right? The sinless Man sacrificing himself for the sins of the world. Right?

You have me really confused here...




[/QUOTE]

[domi]

aclty that's where i put it in the first plae.......someone moved it........not my falt........yah enlgish is my first lunge......i rather arabic but......i can't choose so.........enlgish will have to do.......i'm srory but u guys r just like relay confusing me here..........i think i'm going back to my freind's forum......i's eaiser to understand......no effence but i find this to be like extremaly overwhelming........thanks for trying to help but........now i'm more conufsed........Everyone keeps controdicting everyone else.......and u say one thing and u say u didn't sya it but u did;..........whatveer i'm sorry but it's making me head spin......thaks for trying.......
-Domi

[rogsr]

I hear you. Theology and politics are about the same in that respect, in that, everyone has their own views on most topics.

Peace, and Good luck-

[domi]

Tavida

Let me put it this way.... what if something awful happened to a friend of yours. Say they get mugged walking along the street and are bashed so badly they die. Would you just say to the killer "It's ok, I forgive you", and walk on? Wouldn't you expect 'justice' to be done? You know, get them arrested and sent to jail forever? That part of you that wants justice done, is a part that God has put inside all of us... we are made in His image.
OK... God didn't want to condemn us and put us in Hell (prison) so He sent His Son to pay for our jail term and punishment. He hates sin so much and loves us so much, His Son took our place.

Hence my confusion

First ur asking me if my friend or a freind of mine got mugged and hurt would i want them to go to jail nd have justace be done well ya of coures i would who wouln't....and then u ask me to compare that to god.....yes......ok.....lets comapre....

Gid sends us jeasus.......jeasus is god's son........jeasus get abused in soooo many ways worse then getting mugged like getting hit or getting betaen and ultimently getting hung on the corss........but does jeasus say o i want justice for them.....no he says father plz forgive them because they don't know what they have done....and does god want justice for waht has been done to his son......well yah sure he does.......but he don't send those people to hell/prision........he finds it in his herat to forgive them.........that's my point......god is'nt about revenge.......god is about forgivenessa nd love....and god would never do something like that

Serepha

U confuse me the most of all........u say
Only God can forgive sins

Well jeausus is god so that shouln't be an issue.

I can't find everywhre u said it but u sad it many times....and frankly i'm quite verry confused :)

[Tavita]

Gid sends us jeasus.......jeasus is god's son........jeasus get abused in soooo many ways worse then getting mugged like getting hit or getting betaen and ultimently getting hung on the corss........but does jeasus say o i want justice for them.....no he says father plz forgive them because they don't know what they have done....and does god want justice for waht has been done to his son......well yah sure he does.......but he don't send those people to hell/prision........he finds it in his herat to forgive them.........that's my point......god is'nt about revenge.......god is about forgivenessa nd love....and god would never do something like that
Domi, this would be so true if Jesus was just walking along minding His own business, doing nothing. But the Father sent Jesus to die on the cross, on purpose, so He could pour out His anger and punishment on Him rather than us, and the purpose was so we could be saved. Wishy washy love is not part of the Father's attributes. Ever heard of the expression 'tough love'? If there is no justice in love, then there is no love at all.
Sorry we couldn't be of help to you, Domi, I hope all goes well for you and you find the answers you're looking for....

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[Serapha]

Srapha,

You're trying to say that Jesus' Blood was the final atonement for sin. Right? The sinless Man sacrificing himself for the sins of the world. Right?

You have me really confused here...




[/QUOTE]
Hi there!

:wave:

I recommend that you pick up a good doctrines book and read it.

I would recommend William Evans, "The Great Doctrines of The Bible".

In summary from the text,

The Scriptural Definition of Christ's Death

a. As a ransom
b. A propitiation
c. As a reconciliation
d. As a substitute.


If you have further questions, please send me a PM.

~thanks~

[domi]

*sigh* i just don't get it........it's not like there is n e thing worng witht hey way that ur explaining it just way to many explinations at conce......i dunno iof it's possible but if liek some person can answer my quetionn everyday or one person poats so i can read that and then someone else and i can read that andi can repond individaly instad of all at once....that would be MUCH eaiser for me......as for reading about someone eles option about the bible......i rather read it my self......and dreaw my own conclusions......
thanks agian
Domi:)

[Rafael]

Just read one at a time and take your time with each thing...if you want to. People are only trying to help, so just relax and help yourself at your own pace. God bless you as you seek knowedge of Him

[rogsr]

Serapha,

Is it not written that He was pierced for our trangressions and by His stripes we were healed? And is it not written that He said, "...take, eat, this is My body...then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying. Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." What other doctrines does one need but teachings such as these?

Peace-

[Tavita]

*sigh* i just don't get it........it's not like there is n e thing worng witht hey way that ur explaining it just way to many explinations at conce......i dunno iof it's possible but if liek some person can answer my quetionn everyday or one person poats so i can read that and then someone else and i can read that andi can repond individaly instad of all at once....that would be MUCH eaiser for me......as for reading about someone eles option about the bible......i rather read it my self......and dreaw my own conclusions......
thanks agian
Domi:)
Domi,
As Raphe said, just take your time. You happened to ask a very deep question which is not easy to answer in one go. If you want you can PM me and we can go one question at a time.
Bless you ...

[Bevlina]

Jesus is the son of god aka god and he died to forgive our sins because when he was sent down by god *himself very confusing* it was because god was ready for forgive us. But if Jesus was god then why would he have to die to forgive us? If he had it in his mind to forgive us then why doesn't he just do that without having to sacrifice himself or n e thing else for that matter........ Talking about forgiving sins what sins have been forgiven and or changed science Jesus died for us. As far as i know from the nice life application bible aka the best bible on the face of the planet..... God punished us by making woman go though child birth and making them subordinate to men and making men work for a living.....which is exaclty what's still going on yah? so what's changed?

Ur little sister to the forums
-Domi
What changed honey was that God, in His mercy and wisdom, decided He wanted to have the whole world to know and love Him.
Up till the time of Jesus, only the Jews knew about God - and knew that He was going to send His Son to earth - for the world.

[Novaknight1]

God needed a PERFECT sacrifice in order to forgive us. Nothing really changed.

[domi]

God needed a PERFECT sacrifice in order to forgive us. Nothing really changed.My point exactly.......god said his perfect sacrifice was jeasus which btw no human is perfect......and althogh jeasus might have been god he was still human....that's how i had it explained to me.....and that's how i belive it to be....and thereofre because he is human he isn't perfect.......but besides that if he was sent to forgive our sins and nothing realy changed then nothing is relay forgiven is it?.......Thanks for proving my point Novaknight.:) BTW can someone explain to me why i keep looseing helth everytime i say something?.....that's somewhat odd.....:wave: ..wonder why that is......i suspose u should have gained helth........

[StAnselm]

Yes, actually, you lose health every time you don't say something. :) Health is based on how many posts you make per day - you need to do 3 to be at 100%. So as time passes it goes down...

Christians believe that Jesus was (and is) the only perfect human being. He is fully and completely God while at the same time being fully and completely man - try and get your head around that.

But one day I will be perfect as well - it's not something that's totally incompatible with being human. The main reason I believe Jesus was perfect, though, is because the Bible says so:

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Hebrews 4:14-16)

[Endure2]

God dying wasnt just God finally choosing to forgive us, God forgave all through the old testament. but something had to die, becuase the consequence of sin is death, so God chose to die himself. and God chose the time that he did because it was the perfect time to not only die but to through his death begin to spread the gospel to the entire world.
the way the roman world was advancing at the time, and the road systems and travel had just gotten to where they were, it was the perfect time to spread the gospel throughout the world. if he had come much earlier, it wouldnt have worked. and think, the holyspirit coming in the book of acts happened to be during a large jewish that all jews came too, were God could do not only give his spirit, but show it to all jewish people at one time.
the timing had to be right.

i dont tend to think of birth pains and tiling the ground, as Gods punishment. but rather God telling them what the consequenses where to what they had done, its the effect of sin in our bodies and in this earth.
and it will remain untill corruptible puts on incorruptible, or untill God comes and redeems it all.

[domi]

Lol i have a life........i don't have time to poast 3things per day....lol......thanks for explain st.augestine :)

[Glorianna]

People used to make sacrifices to God in order to be forgiven, but Jesus is the official sacrifice and the only one we need anymore.

[Endure2]

oh.....God didnt make women subordinant to men.

God informed wives to submit or that is GIVE, to their husbands. theres a big diffrence.
but the bible specificly says to husband and wife to submit to one another. but to submit means to GIVE, not be ruled over.
husbands do not have rule over their wives. a husband does what hes called to do in a family and function in his role of being more responsible for certain things, but he is called to love and cherish that beautiful, wonderful, tender, soft, lovely, profound, wise, powerful, more tender vessel, his wife. but the bible says in proverbs 31 that the the virtuous woman also takes care of her husband and children, husbands also depend on their wives. neither can truely function in life the way they need to seperate from each other, they both depend on each other. its an equal relationship.

ive seen some precious young ladies say they didnt want to ever get married, becuase they felt like God would tell them do whatever some overbearing raging hormone, ogre of man wanted them to do. they felt like God would tell them to allow themselves to be forced into sexual things they didnt want to, other things they didnt want to, becuase the man ruled....
and i dont care who you are, your heart has to go out to them and say, hey, Gods not like that, and thats not how its going to be. becuase they were genunely afraid....
but God doesnt do that. marriage is just as much a joy for the wife, as it is for the husband.
the mans body is not his own, but his wifes. and the wifes body is not her own but her husbands. the man is obligated to pleasure the woman, not himself. and the woman is obligated to pleasure the man, not herself. and if one gets selfish and out of line, then God with surely deal with them.

[domi]

If god told woman to give to their husbands then god made them supordant to men cuz he told them to give to men as in they have no say in it as in they r forced be supordant end of story :) rightness?

[Tavita]

Domi,
We are not told to be subservient to our husbands as if we are their slaves.
It means to defer to them ( to listen to them, ask their opinion and value that opinion,), to ALLOW them to have the lead in the marriage. To allow them the absolute final say after all options have been looked at and discussed between you. If you disagree then say so, if you feel something goes against what you're comfortable with, then say no. We do have a choice Domi. If you notice,the first verse says, we are to be subject one to another.. husbands and wives. It does say, wives be subject to your own husbands but it also says how the man is to treat his wife too... as Christ would treat His church. He is to love his wife just as he loves his own flesh. The man is the head only because God has made him responsible for the decisions in the family, so he needs to make the right decisions, and the wife ought to help him do that, and he ought to ask the wife's opinion so she can help him. These verses make it clear that God expects more from the man, and he has more responsiblity in loving and looking after his wife...



(Eph 5:21) and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.

(Eph 5:22) Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

(Eph 5:23) For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

(Eph 5:24) But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

(Eph 5:25) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

(Eph 5:26) so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

(Eph 5:27) that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

(Eph 5:28) So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;

(Eph 5:29) for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,

(Eph 5:30) because we are members of His body.

(Eph 5:31) FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

(Eph 5:32) This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

(Eph 5:33) Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

[Endure2]

domi

not really, and not just men in general.
but when you find a husband God wants both of you to GIVE to each other.

it isnt that the man is in charge, but the woman is supposed to give to the man, things, feelings, life, pleasure, obedience....
but the man is also required to do the VERY SAME to his wife.
it is a completely equal relationship, serving God.

the bible doesnt just tell women to submit or serve, it tells men and women husband and wife to give, submit or serve one another.

men must also serve their wives and submit to their wives, becuase his body is not his own, its hers. the same as my body is not my own but its been bought with a price and its God and i must serve God. but the bible also says i am not my own, but im am my wife's. so i must serve and submit to her also the same way i do God.

but its not this overbearing kind of thing,
when you find a Godly man, the man your supposed to be with, hell never exploit or hurt you, and it will be his pleasure to get you things and please you materially and emotionally, you will be his world! hell love you like hes your prince in shining armor!
and he is called to serve you just as much as your called to serve him.
you serve each other.

when i find this lady i keep calling my wife one day,
it will be my Joy to wipe all her tears away, give her the best, by her a new rose everyday, give her a valentines day everymonth, give her a happy aniversary day every month, do all that i can for her, pour my whole life and being into making her happy! everyday! and shell love me for it!
and ohhh shell give me what i want in return! :D
but its that equal relationship... that mutual relationship.

in the book of dueteronomy it says that under the old law, moses required that when a man married.
it was his requirement, to then take a full year off.
and not work, and not go to war... but to take one year, the first year, and devote it entirely to nothing but making her happy!
A FULL YEAR HONEYMOON!

thats how good, men of God love and treat their wives.
thats how im going to treat myne.
and thats how your husband will treat you if you wait on Gods timing and will and pray for him and do your part.

Godbless
Lee.

[Endure2]

man, i so look forward to finding my one and only.... one day.
ive got beautiful wedding pictures and cards on my wall that i look at everyday, and it keeps that fire kindled in me, ive got a picture of my wife on my wall that so tactfully shows all but a face, with the beautiful white gown and the flowers in her hands... see im getting ready, so when it happens it will just be transition, smooooth..... ill be fully prepared to give her the ride and time of her life in everyway! gettin setup.

i need her so much, and i want her so much, i dont know her yet but when i find her...man ill never let her go.
i will pour myself out like water into her, it will be my greatest joy to nurture and cherish her and give her the lovliest things and the loveliest life i can give, through the grace and power of Christ.
my first and most important calling throughout my life, will be to my wife.
everything and everyone except God... comes after that beautiful woman, becuase she will become a part of me and have something no one else will ever have and require something from me no one else ever can becuase of the intamicy that we have but give to no one else.

man i want to write her poetry, buy her roses and candies... call her up at work just to say "hey baby, i wanted make sure you know you i love you with a HOT HOT love...got something good waiting on you at home baby, got a little something steamy cookin up for ya..." gonna make her get a speeding ticket coming home and shell be breathin hot and heavy before she even gets to the door, but the ticket will be ok cus im gonna have the bread, the money,
and a tender compassionate gentle love that could never move to hurt or betray her, the jewel of my soul.

and man im gonna be brad pitt, frank sinatra, and Jesus all in one, im gonna be her prince on a white horse, her knight in shining armor, im gonna be one bad man! im gonna kill every dragon for my princess and queen! and Mr. GQwannaBE down the road better watch out and stay from my drive way or hell messed up, but you dont need to look at the nice cars that drive by when you have a Ferrari in the garage.... so, by the grace of God im going to be all she needs and wants! and i wont have to worry about that one.... hehe
baby shes gonna be able to put my name in psalm 23 and say the whole thing about me and what i do for her.
im gonna be that good to her.

hehe Godbless.
Lee.