The Unforgivable Sin

[RhetorTheo]

What is the "unforgivable sin," the "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" referred to in scripture?

[Umut]

I think all sins are forgivable; it is what Our Lord, Jesus Christ died for; our sins.

I think it would contradict the idea of the crucifixion; but I don't know much about the issue. If it's unforgivable, then it is...

don't know...

:)

[countrymousenc]

RhetorTheo is referring to this passage in chapter 12 of St. Matthew's gospel:

31. "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32. "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

I'm not qualified to give an Orthodox answer to the question. I've tried to find one at the OCA website, but there's a lot of material to comb through. I'll be interested to read others' responses.

[Umut]

Well, never before had I known about blasphaming against the Holy Spirit; now that I know about I think Satan may be trying to put words in my head.

How do I stop this!?

I'm reciting the Jesus Prayer; ignoring it, but it's hard! It's popping in my head!

Does it differ if the thoughts come to my head or if I say it out loud with intention?

I hope it does differ; because I would never do it with intention anyways!

There was a time >before> I was an Orthodox Christian when I used to blasphamize and actually think it was funny! :(

thank God that's over!!

Do you have to say it with intent for it to be a sin?

[Matrona]

Do you have to say it with intent for it to be a sin?
Umut, have you been able to be baptized?

If not, try to be baptized by full immersion as soon as you can. If you have, ask your priest to read over you the prayers of exorcism. If you haven't been baptized and for some reason you can't do it soon, at least get the priest to pray with you. You don't need to suffer with this and you shouldn't.

You actually have to despise God to blaspheme Him. An uncontrolled thought like this is not in itself blasphemy, but you must do all you can in order to control it and defeat it.

[prodromos]

My poor understanding is that the unforgiveable sin is being unrepentant. God forgives all who ask but does not force His forgiveness on anybody.

John.

[countrymousenc]

Umut, Matrona's advice is excellent. Please see a priest about the problem as soon as possible.

It may help you to read the rest of the passage, as well. Jesus said this about insulting [blaspheming] the Holy Spirit after some Jewish leaders had accused Him of doing His miracles by the power of Satan. That's the context of His statement.

[jameseb]

Sometimes we find ourselves dwelling on things we purposefully try not to think of. Kind of like me asking you not to think of the color blue. ;) I would not fear, my friend. It is not blaspheme lest you speak it true in your heart... and you're certainly not doing that.

[RhetorTheo]

I was asking because the Catholic teaching, if I'm reading it correctly, seems different from my reading of the scripture. I wanted to know if the Orthodox have a different view.

[Christy4Christ]

what about suicide? How could one be forgiven from this???

[Matrona]

what about suicide? How could one be forgiven from this???
I suppose suicide can be forgiven in theory--it's just extremely difficult and rare that a suicide victim can have a chance to be brought to repentance.

I suppose if one purposefully infected herself with a fatal disease (masochistic, much?!), or shot herself and didn't die right away, the suicide victim has a chance of being counseled and brought to a right place with God before she dies.

[Christy4Christ]

Ok let us go a step further then. What about one who not only kills themselves but takes out a couple thousand people with them?

[Momzilla]

I don't think the answer would be different, Christy. Repentance before death = forgiveness, as I understand it. But, of course, I'm not Orthodox, so it's entirely possible that I do not understand.

[Oblio]

Ok let us go a step further then. What about one ...


I don't know, what about someone who kills numerous Christians but sees their unshakable faith and repents just prior to being martyred himself. Playing the what-if, how-about this with that which is the job of God alone is not the Orthodox Way.

[Christy4Christ]

I don't know, what about someone who kills numerous Christians but sees their unshakable faith and repents just prior to being martyred himself. Playing the what-if, how-about this with that which is the job of God alone is not the Orthodox Way.

Yes I know and it doesn't appear to be the Catholic way either. The only trouble I have with this is, how are we to teach our kids what is acceptable and what isn't if we allow ignorance and all sorts of other circumstances? To teach my child that the 9/11 terrorists might very well be in Heaven seems a little extreme. This seems a lot like moral relitivism and that frightens me. I wanted to find our what your view was on that..

[Oblio]

The only trouble I have with this is, how are we to teach our kids what is acceptable and what isn't if we allow ignorance and all sorts of other circumstances?


Reading the lives of the Saints is a good place to start for examples of behavior to follow.

[Oblio]

To teach my child that the 9/11 terrorists might very well be in Heaven seems a little extreme. This seems a lot like moral relitivism and that frightens me.


What I would do is teach them that it is not up to us to decide who is saved or condemned, for it is only through God's great mercy that our salvation is made possible. In this case, I would give examples of the type of behaviour that is indicative of God working in someones life. Kids are smart, they will quickly realize what is not God working in others (or themselves).

[visionary]

The Holy Spirit "intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:27
The Holy Spirit teaches spiritual truths "taught by the spirit, interpreting spiritaul truths to those wo posses the Spirit." 1 Cor 2:13
The Holy Spirit should be a part of you Romans 8:9 Do you not know that you are a temple of God.
The Holy Spirit teaches and reminds you of what God said "he will teach you all things and bring your remembrance all that I have said to you." John 14:26

So it is important that you "do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Eph 4:30 A man's conscience is the Lord's searchlight exposing his hidden motives. Pr 20:27. If we continually ignore, fight, and reject the workings of the Holy Spirit upon our hearts to convert us, renew us and transform us because it does fit our concepts, our beliefs, or causes to look a little closer at our "little" sins then we are grieving the Holy Spirit. If it gets to the point where our minds wants no more influence of the Holy Spirit on our lives, then we have committed the ultimate blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

The blaspheme in Luke 12:10 is the resisting Acts 7:51 which leads to persecuting the true believers because of your unbelief.

[Matthias]

In the end, it is up to Christ to decide.

[Alfred M]

The unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit is when we, through a heart hardened against God, fail to let the Holy Spirit come into our lives. There are those who know God exists, yet they cannot believe in His love for us. They cannot forgive themselves so they do not believe in the mercy of God. They fall into a self condemnation that separates them from God by their own choice...so no repentance is sought and no forgiveness is forthcoming...thus an "unforgiveable sin".

We must realize that the doors of hell are all locked from the inside and it is our free will that answers the call of God through the Spirit...we then open those doors and exit hell into the loving embrace of our Father or we condemn ourselves to a separation from Heaven and the celebration open to all.

Love to ramble...

In the name of our Saviour,

Alfred, the lowliest of sinners

[MariaRegina]

Yes I know and it doesn't appear to be the Catholic way either. The only trouble I have with this is, how are we to teach our kids what is acceptable and what isn't if we allow ignorance and all sorts of other circumstances? To teach my child that the 9/11 terrorists might very well be in Heaven seems a little extreme. This seems a lot like moral relitivism and that frightens me. I wanted to find our what your view was on that..

Dear Christy:

We are not to judge others, but personaly I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of those terrorists who killed thousands, like those who slammed those jets into the Twin Towers of NYC.

Christ did say to go into the whole world, baptizing and spreading the Good News. Note that Christ didn't talk about invincible ignorance. This is a modernist myth which sounds like the feel-good religion that is being preached to lull everyone to sleep = a sleep of indifference.

We are to share the Gospel by our good lives, and leave the preaching to those chosen missionaries of our Church. Trouble is - there are a lot of self-appointed evangelist who are turning off more people than they are converting. How can we convert anyone to Christ unless we possess faith, hope, and charity? And how can we possess charity unless we pray and repent of our sins first, and forgive all those who have trespassed against us?

St. Seraphim of Sarov is one our greatest saints. He spend years in silence and solitude before God. Only after he became a literal pillar of light did he open his hut to the multitudes who sought the secret of sanctity = prayer and repentance

BTW: Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only one who can save us from ourselves.

One priest made the comment: you cannot share what you don't possess.

We need more saints in this world, but we can only become saints if we pray and read the Holy Scriptures daily. Lord have mercy.

Yours in the Risen Lord,
Elizabeth

[happyinhisgrace]

Yes I know and it doesn't appear to be the Catholic way either. The only trouble I have with this is, how are we to teach our kids what is acceptable and what isn't if we allow ignorance and all sorts of other circumstances? To teach my child that the 9/11 terrorists might very well be in Heaven seems a little extreme. This seems a lot like moral relitivism and that frightens me. I wanted to find our what your view was on that.. We know from God's Holy Word that the only way to heaven is through Jesus. If one dies without Jesus, how could they possibly go to heaven? I always hope and pray that when someone has died (an unbeliever) that they accepted the Lord before their death because I hate the thought of anyone spending eternity in Hell. Only Jesus knows for sure who will and won't be in Heaven but we can always hope it for others. It sure beats the alternitive of focusing on their eternity in hell :cry:

God Bless,
Grace

[Rising_Suns]

The unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit is when we, through a heart hardened against God, fail to let the Holy Spirit come into our lives. There are those who know God exists, yet they cannot believe in His love for us. They cannot forgive themselves so they do not believe in the mercy of God. They fall into a self condemnation that separates them from God by their own choice...so no repentance is sought and no forgiveness is forthcoming...thus an "unforgiveable sin".

Yes, in short, it is with full knowledge and intent, the direct rejection of God.






RhetorTheo,
Catholic teaching does not differ from what scipture says...from the CCC...

Part 3, Section 1, Chapter 1, Article 8, SubSection 4 (http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getsection.cfm?partnum=3&SecNum=1&ChapNum=1&articlenum=8&ParSecNum=0&subSecNum=4&headernum=0&ParNum=1864&ParType=a)

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven." 136 (http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getnote.cfm?ParNum=1864&FNoteNum=136) There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. 137 (http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/getnote.cfm?ParNum=1864&FNoteNum=137) Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.