A question for those with kids...

[Momzilla]

One of my concerns about converting is raising my kids in a faith that not only is a very small minority, but also is quite different from what their friends will know. I'm in the South, where Protestant Christianity is huge; moreover, I am in the land of Bob Jones Univ., where Catholic bashing is rampant (ironically, BJU has an incredible collection of icons in its art museum). I worry about raising my boys without a Christmas tree, with celebrating holidays on a different day, with fasting constantly. I worry about them being teased and misunderstood.

Are my fears overblown? What experiences can any of you share regarding raising Orthodox kids? (I've also asked this question of the parish priest, who has two kids).

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Reader Nilus]

Goodness yes! Orthodox have Christmas Trees. Our Nativity Feast is on Dec 25th. The only holiday that is in most years different is Pascha. And in those years we would have after Pascha Vespers; Fr John's last chance Easter Egg hunt.
Jeff the Finn

[Oblio]

Not having to address this just yet, I will say that there seems to be a renewed interest in the deep South WRT fasting in Fundagelical circles. They tend to roll their own rules, or let their pastor call a fast and other such 'traditions' but fasting may be less of a zenophobic trigger than it has been in the past.

Another thing to remember is that fasting is greatly relaxed in the case of growing children.

[Oblio]

On the other hand, you should have heard the comments from our Baptist inlaws and their children at our Orthodox wedding and reception. Especially when they spotted father with a Sam Adams Cream Stout at the reception :eek:

[vanshan]

I have two young children (Anna, 3 and Elijah 1) and have not come across problems yet. Our extended families are all Protestant, some active, some not, so there have been conflicts with Easter parties and activites going on during the fasts, but I think as time passes the children will see that keeping the Orthodox faith trumps many other activities we could participate in.

We keep a Christmas tree although we normally put it up much later than everyone else and keep it up longer. (It's great though we normally get super discounts on trees when we buy them). Also, every year we have a Saint Nicholas Party for our family around December 6th, during which we relax the fasting rules for the children and give them stockings to open. We don't want to be so strict that they become disgruntled. Our children, of coure, don't fast yet anyway.

I would be very interested to hear from other people with older children.

[Momzilla]

Orthodox DO have Christmas trees? I thought I remembered someone posting in the thread on the dangers of Christmas-tree-ism that the Orthodox don't have Christmas trees, and I also thought they observed a different date for the feast of the Nativity.

Now I'm all confuzzled. I'm going to start a separate thread on this.

[Suzannah]

Oblio,
Is Momzilla remembering the Christmas Tree-ism thread??? LOL
Momzilla,
Our church has Christmas trees...the people at my church have Christmas trees and they go ahead and celebrate the "secular" holiday, then they get to witness to their friends and family with the real holiday on Jan. 7. :) They also "Hail the Great Bunny" with the Great, All Saints, Easter Egg Hunt, complete with peeps and Cadbury...(My daughter can't wait for this!!!)
Fasting is a very loose rule for children...they're not even fasting as far as I'm concerned...the only thing difficult about this is : fixing two suppers at once...I'm not a great cook.

[Oblio]

Oblio,
Is Momzilla remembering the Christmas Tree-ism thread??? LOL


:D

There is no prohibition on trees but it is not 'part' of Orthodoxy like it is in Western traditions :)

[ufonium2]

My priest had a Christmas tree, as did the Antiochian priest in town. I didn't have one, but it's because I am seriously lazy, live alone, and knew I wouldn't be home Christmas day anyway.

I also live in the south, in the shadow of a 25,000+ member SBC, and from my experience the fundamentalists here have more respect for Orthodox than they do Episcopals or UMCs or the like. They respect that we take a hard line, even if it's not theirs.

Don't worry about it. Like others mentioned, we're (almost) all on New Calendar now so Christmas will be the same. Plus, when your kids get a name day you can celebrate that. Tell them they get two birthdays a year, and see what they think ;)

[Momzilla]

Well, y'all should know that I am up until the wee hours most nights worrying about the dangers of Christmas Tree worship. I'm beside myself about it. ;)

[Suzannah]

Well, y'all should know that I am up until the wee hours most nights worrying about the dangers of Christmas Tree worship. I'm beside myself about it. ;)
Yes....I know! Me too....yet, we are now faced with an even greater threat: The Easter Bunny.
This will cost me much fasting and prayer...

[Oblio]

Troparion to Ayios Evergreenius
(Tone 6)


O' Christmas Tree
O' Christmas Tree
How Glorious and Mighty art thou ...

[Suzannah]

Troparion to Ayios Evergreenius
(Tone 6)


O' Christmas Tree
O' Christmas Tree
How Glorious and Mighty art thou ...

^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
Viewed in this light, perhaps there IS something to that thread after all!!!
ROFL!

[Suzannah]

for those that wonder, if we have lost our minds:

See Christian Apologetics here at CF, the thread in question : A Question About Christmas....it's almost 100 pages of pure, unadulterated hysteria over whether or not Christmas Trees are allowed and whether or not "christians" are in danger of worshipping them.

[Oblio]

The Triflora Hymn

Holy Log, Holy Heighty, Holy Immovable
Stay upri-ight for us ...

[Eusebios]

The Triflora Hymn

Holy Log, Holy Heighty, Holy Immovable
Stay upri-ight for us ...

Oblio,
Further outbursts of this nature may oblige you to provide a sample in a jar!
;)
His humorless knave,
Eusebios :D

[Matrona]

I also thought they observed a different date for the feast of the Nativity.In Orthodoxy there are two calendars--the Old Calendar and the New Calendar.

The Old Calendar is the Julian Calendar, the calendar everyone used before the Gregorian calendar was devised. Most Orthodox outside the United States use this calendar. The Julian and Gregorian calendars are slightly off from each other--at the present time, the difference is about 13 days.

Example time: My patron saint reposed on October 20th, 1462. New Calendar Orthodox, like me, will celebrate St. Matrona's day on the Gregorian October 20th. The Old Calendar Orthodox are 13 days behind, so they will celebrate the same saint 13 days later, on the Gregorian November 2nd.

Gregorian November 2nd = Julian October 20th

The Old Calendar Orthodox still recognize December 25th as the Nativity, but they won't get to December 25th until we're already on January 7th. So that's why we have "Eastern Orthodox Christmas" marked on calendars as January 7th. That's Christmas on their calendar because it's their December 25th.

Most Orthodox outside the United States use the Old Calendar, but most within the United States use the New Calendar. (Suzannah and prodromos are exceptions to this--Suzannah is in the USA but her parish is Old Calendar. Prodromos lives in Greece but his parish is New Calendar.)

My church, and most Orthodox in North America, are New Calendar, so I celebrate Christmas on the Gregorian December 25th, same as my Protestant and Catholic brethren.

I know this probably seems kind of silly, arguing over a stupid calendar. I'm just glad, though, that the Orthodox argue over stupid things like this, instead of whether or not Jesus really rose from the dead. :o

For your original post, since I didn't grow up Orthodox I'm not really qualified to answer that. One of my good friends, though, was chrismated at the age of five when his family converted, and he is very, very American! (His obsession with baseball bears that out. ;) ) He is probably more than familiar with the idiosyncrasies of growing up Orthodox, so I will ask him for you.

[Philip]

All I can think of is

It's L*g, L*g,
It rolls down stairs,
over tables and chairs,
and over the neighbor's dog.

It's L*g, L*g,
It's big, It's heavy, It's wood.

[Oblio]

LOL Philip

I was thinking the same after I wrote that :D

[Oblio]

Could our low BCC* be causing this insanity ??


* Blood Cholestrol Content

[Momzilla]

whoosh!

That's the sound of all those references of Oblio's and Phillip's going right over my poor inquirer's head. Are those adaptations of liturgical chants?

[Momzilla]

Matrona, I would appreciate it if you would ask your friend. Thanks.

[Eusebios]

All I can think of is

...It's L*g, L*g,
It's big, It's heavy, It's wood.
It's log, it's log
it's better than bad.... it's good!

Ok, maybe I'm the one who should be giving a sample..
wow, have we digressed. Humblest apologies to Momzilla :rolleyes:
His MOST unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

[Momzilla]

Fret not, Eusebios. I'm laughing even though I have no idea why!

[vanshan]

It does seem like a petty thing to argue over. Too bad many new calendarists outright reject old calandarists as over-zealous. I am a new calandarist only because my parish is. I think it probably would be better if were all on the same calendar.

[Eusebios]

whoosh!

That's the sound of all those references of Oblio's and Phillip's going right over my poor inquirer's head. Are those adaptations of liturgical chants?
Yes MZ, bad puns on "Festal Troparions" the central hymns of any given feast or saints day.For assistance in deciphering Orthodox-ese, see this link (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/misc/litsas_dictionary_orthodox_terminology.htm)
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Philip]

It's log, it's log
it's better than bad.... it's good!

:clap:
I'm glad there is someone old enough to get this.

MZ - It is an un-original parody of a Slinky commercial. Oblio's posts dug it out of my memory.

[Matrona]

Matrona, I would appreciate it if you would ask your friend. Thanks.
Don't worry, I will--I'll have kids someday, too, ya know. ;)

1987 was the year all those evangelicals became Orthodox en masse. My friend was one of them. Since then, Orthodoxy has become much better known among evangelical Protestants. :clap:

[Michael the Iconographer]

On the other hand, you should have heard the comments from our Baptist inlaws and their children at our Orthodox wedding and reception. Especially when they spotted father with a Sam Adams Cream Stout at the reception :eek:

Funny you say that because at my wedding, I was the only Orthodox person present other than the priest and choir, as my wife had not yet converted to Orthodoxy. I had to write a small booklet explaining the Orthodox wedding service to all of my Protestant and Catholic family. The best man and maid of honor did not know about the holding the imperial crowns over our heads during the wedding until the rehearsal the night before! Most every one there thought it was a beautiful service, even though they did not understand all of the symbolism involved. The line in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" when the father of the groom said "It is All Greek to me" struck me as funny, because our poor families must have been thinking "It is all Russian to me".

[Matrona]

The line in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" when the father of the groom said "It is All Greek to me" struck me as funny, because our poor families must have been thinking "It is all Russian to me".
LOL!

My parents only recently watched that movie for the first time, several months after my baptism into the Orthodox Church. As weirded out as my parents are about me converting, I couldn't help but smile when my dad quoted Gus ad nauseum in the following days. Especially when he said, "It is your lucky day to be baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church!" ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ (It sure is!)

[countrymousenc]

Man! I stepped away to do housework and look what I missed! Rofl. (Not laughing at your question, Momzilla)

[Photini]

My son (8 yrs old) has actually told me that he wants to fast on Wed and Fri. He has repeatedly told me how much he loves the Orthodox Church...how he loves hearing about the Saints, etc. Both of my kids have adjusted to the Orthodox Church very well. It was difficult at first, because they were used to going to church and being entertained and seperated from the service....but now they love it. And there's always some special thing going on in our Church. You know, commemorating Saints, venerating the Cross, the Sunday of Orthodoxy, all the special feast days....

[Sergius_Lucius]

For your original post, since I didn't grow up Orthodox I'm not really qualified to answer that. One of my good friends, though, was chrismated at the age of five when his family converted, and he is very, very American! (His obsession with baseball bears that out. ;) ) He is probably more than familiar with the idiosyncrasies of growing up Orthodox, so I will ask him for you.

:) I know a very, very Russian Orthodox guy and he plays in the Russian baseboal team!

[Sergius_Lucius]

Dear Momzilla, it seems that your kids will have more holidays being Orthodox :)

BTW, the latest issue of Orthodox Journal for Youth here in Moscow (with "Orthodox women" as the main theme) contains an article by a matushka (priest's wife) about raising children in the Orthodox family. I just glanced at it but remember she wrote that since Orthodox children have more restrictions in the life than others (fasts, no discos and parties, no TV in some families) they should have very good feasts.

[Eusebios]

OK,
I've come down from the effects of whatever drugs I was on earlier in this thread ;) (too much coffee I suspect) and wanted to give my 2 cents worth on kids in Orthodoxy.
I'll start with experiences in our parish.Holy Assumption (http://www.holyassumption.net/) is a relastively small parish, that is at the same time a parish full of kids, amongst them my three godchildren (ages 4, 8 &10). This sometimes seems to be a potential drawback as kids can be distracting at times. But our parish has embraced it. We believe that the children of our parish are everyone's responsibility."It takes a parish to raise a child" (please don't flame me on the blatant "Clintonism:) )
In terms of how I've seen my godchildren react (the whole family converted from a conservative Protestant background) they are too busy witnessing about the faith to really notice that there are too many different things. They love the uniqueness of being Orthodox. Of course this is likely due to the fact that they go to an OrthodoxAcademy for school.
I guess I say all that to say this: don't let the fear of children being unable to cope hold you back. Children are remarkably adaptable and resilient.
This is not to say that I don't understand your apprehensions, I do.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Photini]

Momzilla and all:

Here's a site with lots of advice. And they also have a "Mother's Digest" newsletter via e-mail that comes out every so often. You can e-mail them questions and get answers and advice from other Orthodox mothers.

www.orthodoxfamily.com (http://www.orthodoxfamily.com/)

[MariaRegina]

One of my concerns about converting is raising my kids in a faith that not only is a very small minority, but also is quite different from what their friends will know. I'm in the South, where Protestant Christianity is huge; moreover, I am in the land of Bob Jones Univ., where Catholic bashing is rampant (ironically, BJU has an incredible collection of icons in its art museum). I worry about raising my boys without a Christmas tree, with celebrating holidays on a different day, with fasting constantly. I worry about them being teased and misunderstood.

Are my fears overblown? What experiences can any of you share regarding raising Orthodox kids? (I've also asked this question of the parish priest, who has two kids).

Thanks for any help you can give.

Dear Momzilla:

At one time, perhaps even still true today, an Orthodox Priest taught Church history at Bob Jones University. He always began his classes with an Orthodox Prayer: O Heavenly Spirit ...

Many young men became Orthodox because of that one priest ... many are Orthodox Priests today!

Love in Christ,
Elizabeth