Need For Circumcision

[kyzar]

Umm, i know I am not supposed to post in here, but I been wondering something for a while. Since the Messiah's coming is there a need for circumcision?

[sojeru]

yes and no

[visionary]

circumcision of what your.... or your heart?

[mjterry87]

Why not? Do you love Yeshua, do you want to be just like he was? Answer that question first. He was a Jew. Now what do you think?

[kyzar]

thanx mj, thats a good point...

[kyzar]

visionary, circumcision of your ... a physcial circumcision...

[The Thadman]

IMHO, you follow Jesus -> you have the faith of Jesus -> you follow Torah.

Torah says circumcise, do it :)

Have faith :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[JSynon]

Hi Steve-o, :wave:

Sorry to post this off topic. I tryed to PM you, but your stored PM's have reached the max limit. Anyways... I was referred to you to ask for your opinion on the accuracy of Stern's CJB, specifically the Tanakh. Also, if I may ask, what version of the Tanakh would you recommend I purchase? And do you have any comments on the HNV or MRC translations? Feel free to PM me your response so we don't bog down this thread. :)

[PaladinGirl]

Here are some Bible verses I looked up that are about circumcision:

1 Corinthians 7:18-19

Galatians 5:6

Galatians 6:15

Colossians 2:11

[mjterry87]

All I have to say is do it, why not? It is good for health reasons, and it says to do it in the Torah, Yehsua preached the Torah, so there you go.

Shalom,
Michael :wave:

[visionary]

visionary, circumcision of your ... a physcial circumcision...
Circumcision of your foreskin is a token of the circumcision of your heart. If you just do the token then you have missed the point.

Genesis 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

[JSynon]

Hi Holly, :wave:

I think that those verses are saying that there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in Christ and circumcision of the heart. Is it possible for one to become physically uncircumcised?

[Sephania]

NO, it is not, thus the point. ;) If you are Jewish and for some reason you weren't circumcised, then you should be to be in the covenant of your fathers; now for beliefs sake, NO.

But,, it was an everlasting ordinance. Remember Moses? He was almost slain by G-d because he didn't do it to his two boys.

What Paul is speaking of is that if you are a gentile, there is no need to get circumcised; your faith is enough to graft you in.

But you also must remember that circumcision was not a part of the law given at Sinai, it came before way before, with Father Abraham. It was a sign and also it was a covenant that way 'cut' in the flesh, blood was shed . Yeshua shed that blood for the covenant you are now in, so just accepting that blood, you are in; you do not have to shed your own blood.

[kyzar]

thanx Zayit... in fact, thank-you all for your varied views... c ya

[The Thadman]

Is it possible for one to become physically uncircumcised?

Do a Google search on "EPISPASM." :)

It's in the Greek of Paul's letters, usually translated as "uncircumcision." :)

Peace!
-Steve-o

[mjterry87]

NO, it is not, thus the point. ;) If you are Jewish and for some reason you weren't circumcised, then you should be to be in the covenant of your fathers; now for beliefs sake, NO.

But,, it was an everlasting ordinance. Remember Moses? He was almost slain by G-d because he didn't do it to his two boys.

What Paul is speaking of is that if you are a gentile, there is no need to get circumcised; your faith is enough to graft you in.

But you also must remember that circumcision was not a part of the law given at Sinai, it came before way before, with Father Abraham. It was a sign and also it was a covenant that way 'cut' in the flesh, blood was shed . Yeshua shed that blood for the covenant you are now in, so just accepting that blood, you are in; you do not have to shed your own blood.


Your starting to sound like a Christian talking about the Torah! LOL
Why not get it done? Yeshua did, why not be like him?

[Shimshon]

As visionary mentioned, If you just do the token then you've missed the point. Outward observances are nothing if the heart is not lined up with G-d's plum line (Torah).

The whole of Torah leads to Yeshua. Yeshua showed all to often that observing outwardly is useless if your inner most heart is not observing as well. Does the term "white washed tombs" mean anything to you?

As the pendullum swings rabbis hold it to one extreme and say "Observance over intent....halacha over mitzvot" and the pastor says "Intent over observance...Love over deeds. But I do beleive the middle ground is where the plum line rests. Trusting without walking out that trust is useless. Faith without works is not faith at all. Works without faith is no work at all, but vanity and legalism.

Repentance that leads to forgivness was the testimony witnessed. And how can one repent without trusting faithfulness in Yeshua?

The righteous will live their life by faith......."live life" is an action....a work. Rabbi's seem to say, "the righteous will live"...and Pastors seem to say, " by faith I am righteous. But Ya'akov (james) says "You see that his faith worked with his actions, by the actions the faith was made complete.

Justly so, if Yeshua would have only spoken in faith what he desired to happen, yet not come down and do the actual work...would the outcome be complete? would sins be forgiven? if Yeshua had only operated in faith without the action would the work be complete? No. Without faith it is impossible to please G-d (heb 11:6) And no amount of works will make you righteous without faith attatched to them.

David ben Michael

[Sephania]

Your starting to sound like a Christian talking about the Torah! LOL
Why not get it done? Yeshua did, why not be like him?
Yeshua was Jewish, it was the law for Jewish men, Not Christian men. This was for a physical descendant of Abraham only. I don't think it should be usurped by Gentile men. And I think I understand the Torah alot more than most Christians Michael, please don't insult me like that again.

Remember, two people can agree on the same thing for different reasons. :)

[Shimshon]

And I think I understand the Torah alot more than most Christians Michael, please don't insult me like that again.
Did I get caught in the crossfire? I thought you were talking to MJterry? If not, I would humbly like to ask in what manner I insulted you?

[Sephania]

MJTerry, IS the Michael I was speaking too, thus why I quoted his post, MJ stands for Michael James; not Messianic Jew or Judaism. ;)

[Shimshon]

MJTerry, IS the Michael I was speaking too, thus why I quoted his post, MJ stands for Michael James; not Messianic Jew or Judaism. ;)
Oh good, Yes I did assume MJ stood for messianic judaism. Thanks for the clarification. :)

[Mary_Magdalene]

Yeshua was Jewish, it was the law for Jewish men, Not Christian men. This was for a physical descendant of Abraham only. I don't think it should be usurped by Gentile men.


ITA. :)

[kyzar]

thank you GodsCHosenGirl, i missed that one of zayits posts... This is i guess how I feel, that circumcision was for the Jew, given in His covenant with Abraham, and as such is not given to the gentiles etc. Is this right? If so, I feel that instead of a physcial circumcision (with hands) there is a spiritual circumcision (by the Holy Spirit)...

Any ideas?

[Sephania]

Yes, the circumcision of the heart, cutting out our will and replacing it with the Holy Spirit's, this is one that is unisex, whereas the Abrahamic one was stricktly for men only.

That would make a great topic to discuss as well. :)