Turkey is it Kosher?

[P_G]

Had some discussion tonight as to if Turkey is kosher now because the modern Turkey the domesticated one cannot fly or does not fly.

What say you?

Turkey Kosher or no?


Love

Pastor George :wave:

[YatzivPatgam]

Pastor George,


This would be a question for a Schotet. Not quite sure anyone here can answer that, unless they have a ruling from some of the "Kosher" organizations from America or Israel.

[Charlesinflorida]

Pastor George,

Greetings to you.

Domesticated Chickens and Ducks also are not able to fly, more than a few feet. If you are looking for a consenses of opinion, put me down for calling Turkey Kosher.
I feel no condemnation of spirit when eating these.

I have wondered about some fishes. There are some that while in the ocean and have fins and scales, later during the maturing process loose these tiny sales and develop the typical coating of sea slime that protects them. I believe Halibut is one of these.

Other Fish like Salmon which are fresh water spawners, change color and form, becoming "horn snouted" when they come to spawn. This change is actually due to the change in osmotic pressures caused by the fresh water's relative density, which results in a backup of uric acid in the tissue of the fish. So I wonder are these fish considered Kosher by heir deep sea definition and then become unkosher later on?

In the case of Halibut, because it is somewhat bottom feeder, I feel uneasy in my spirit about it. Though before becoming Kosher, I ate a great deal of it, and it is perhaps some of the best and cleanest meat you can Find, except around the cheeks as with most fish. (There tends to be worms in all fish there) which we did not consume as some do.

Charles the Crazy Messimaniac from Florida

[Henaynei]

I can get kosher turkey from the (local) kosher wharehouse from which the chabad and orthodox get their meats.

I do agree with YP, however, a concensus of OUR opinions counts little - which of us have spent years studying the minutia of the laws of Kashrut - who among us understands (*truly* knows, not just has an opinion) why chicken, a scavenger, is kosher and an ostrich, another scavenger, is not??

This is another example of *why* halakah is necessary ;)

[YatzivPatgam]

This is another example of *why* halakah is necessary ;)
Which is why the symbol for Messianics in this forum is a Torah scroll, whose upkeep and care take up hundreads of pages if Halach, while the Orthdox Jew's is a symbol of culture more then anything else?

I can some that up in one word.

Awesome.

[Henaynei]

Which is why the symbol for Messianics in this forum is a Torah scroll, whose upkeep and care take up hundreads of pages if Halach, while the Orthdox Jew's is a symbol of culture more then anything else?

I can some that up in one word.

Awesome.
Because the orthodox need no reminder, and, sometimes, the Messiainics do ;)

[YatzivPatgam]

Because the orthodox need no reminder, and, sometimes, the Messiainics do ;)
Actually...

I posted that when I misread your post, after I learned of my mistake, the server at this internet cafe didn't let me edit my post so....

I end up looking like the wrong end of a donkey :D

My apologies.:hug:

[Henaynei]

Actually...

I posted that when I misread your post, after I learned of my mistake, the server at this internet cafe didn't let me edit my post so....

I end up looking like the wrong end of a donkey :D

My apologies.:hug:I used to work with donkeys, and for my money the "wrong end" is the one with the teeth!!! LOL:D

When I was in Israel I *Tried* to find a cyber cafe!! I would see them from the bus window - but they were either closed by the time we were free or were so far away as to make finding them costly (taxi - and we won't talk of how the honorable taxi drivers gauge the route they take by how well you know hebrew and the city!! LOL - true entrepreneurs ;) )

[P_G]

I pray all had a good sabbath!

The comment regarding the domesticated chickens and ducks is valuable.

I think that Turkey likely is kosher because they can fly. Trust me there is a huge flock of them in the woods surrounding my home and I had one take off in front of me one time when I went out to the woodshed. Honestly it sounded like a huey helecopter taking off and he did fly that bird.

But it does draw an interesting question regarding man's interference with what G-d has made. And can we by our hand ruin that which G-d made perfect as in the case of our non flying birds or is G-ds perfection so great that man's feeble attempts have no real effect.

Also I vote that there is no particularly pleasent side of a donkey!

Love

Pastor George :wave:

psssst do you like the new picture?

[JewishHeart]

according to your conscious and conviction of the Holy Spirit: Halacha counts for nothing!

[ShirChadash]

When ones conscience and The Spirit of Elohim together agree that any given halacha is not directly AGAINST the Word of YHVH, then that halacha is perfectly fine to hold. NO?

[JewishHeart]

As long as you don't look to Halacha for the answer for every kosher question, but rather as a commentary tool, alongside of the Holy Spirit.


I will say it again, I appreciate Halacha as a commentary with some truths and some lies,;but it is never authorative and we should never as believers draw our biblical conclusions ONLY from Halacha as the source.

[JewishHeart]

Many messianics on this forum will not decide about anything in the Torah besides what the Halacha says.

[JewishHeart]

Also , why look to the source of men (Halacha) rather than asking the Holy Spirit yourself...unless you are totally astray as a messianic and believe oral torah came from Sinai.

[Henaynei]

JH - While I DO believe that the concept, principle and much of the content of Oral Traditions DID come from Sinai, I do not hold you or your belief in contempt for thinking otherwise.

However, I DO hold very strong views in you assigning to my walk with HaShem that I am *astray as a messianic* because I hold halakah in high regard.

Shalom

[simchat_torah]

Turkeys can fly more than chickens can. Has anyone seen a wild turkey? I've seen them fly more than a football field in length, and that's not even when they are scared.

[iitb]

Turkeys can fly more than chickens can. Has anyone seen a wild turkey? I've seen them fly more than a football field in length, and that's not even when they are scared.
I almost drove through a flock of them as they flew across a road. It was the first time I'd ever seen a turkey fly. Pretty freaky.

[Pray4Isrel]

Oddly enough, I was raised out in the country on farmland.
Turkeys not only fly, but they roost in trees... and I mean tall trees. They certainly don't climb em'. ;)

[simchat_torah]

I used to go camping in a place called "turkey run" ;)

Turkeys flyin all around. They are ginormous birds... and beautiful when in flight.... not awkward at all.

[P_G]

I used to go camping in a place called "turkey run" ;)

Turkeys flyin all around. They are ginormous birds... and beautiful when in flight.... not awkward at all.
And when properly roased quite delicious!


:D


PG :wave:

[Pray4Isrel]

Says in a Homer Simpson voice: "Mmmmmmmmmm....... Turrrkey......"

[ShirChadash]

Many messianics on this forum will not decide about anything in the Torah besides what the Halacha says.
Ya know... I find this to be such a condescending comment. Brother, I highly -- highly -- doubt you can know even a small degree of all that goes into any individual's decision regarding where to stand on any issue of faith, just judging by the comments they make on a message board. Many of the people here have been delving into the Word and have gone through a long and incredibly rich, in-depth lifelong process of following hard after the Lord, and believe it or not some might actually come to a place of understanding things differently than you do, due to that process.

You, yourself, say you believe one can follow written Torah and Living Torah -- Yeshua -- but in your posts here you talk a lot about Yeshua and less about Torah partly because you see so many on here that (you think) focus too much on written Torah, and you want to present the "other side" strongly (as you see it is lacking in its representation here). Others (myself included) often present the "other side" of Torah obedience in many of our posts because (even though YOU may not be saying this...) the "we don't need the Law" blahblah is so often thrown at us, and is a more-than-well represented view among nearly all believers in Yeshua, so some of us want to represent the Torah observance "side" strongly in our posts (because we see it is lacking in its representation in the Body, even among most Messianics). Most people in these congregational areas have Yeshua/Jesus... but by and large people do not understand nor accept that there is ANY place for Torah in the believer's life... so *shrug*, to me balance is needed on all parts.

And if those who have studied in-depth and been convicted of the Spirit to go with Rabbinic halacha as the authority they choose to place themselves under in ANYthing, or in ALL things of Practice, as long as those things are not directly against Scripture itself and do not deny Yeshua as Messiah, what in this causes you to address those brethren so disdainfully?

respectfully,
~z~

[simchat_torah]

Many messianics on this forum will not decide about anything in the Torah besides what the Halacha says.

That's funny, I know most of these people pretty well, and I can't say that about a single person here.

hmmm....

[simchat_torah]

Just because someone may follow halacha, does not mean they blindly follow it.

This does not mean one tosses aside their logical reasoning. Personally, I examine each and every halachic decision and determine its value as a practice in my life. Typically, I find a lot of the conservative (and a good chunck of orthodox) halacha is very worthwhile.

This does not mean I, nor others, follow it blindly.

Your words are that of ignorance and offense JH.

[Pray4Isrel]

This thread went from turkey to theology.
;)

I am going to close this now in hopes that we can all take a breather and try a new approach next time. :)