Judas Doomed but Peter not?

[Anthony]

In the Bible it provides evidence that Judas is doomed

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


Question: Why is Judas doomed and Peter is not? Both rejected Christ, why is Judas doomed and Peter is not. All Peter had to do is what, accept Christ back . . . three times, like some magic words and he was back in?

[joevberry3]

Hi Anthony. I have always wondered about this myself. Both betrayed Jesus. But Peter did repent to God. Remember he ran and cried after he knew what he had done.
The Bible also says that Judas repented, but did he really repent to God or to man?
I cant say if Judas is in Heaven or Hell, thats not for man to say. But, what we dont know is if Judas really repented to God.
I also remember Christ saying forgive them father, for they know not what they do. Who all was he talking about? Im sure he would have been talking about Judas too since its clear Judas done this out of ignorance, wouldnt you agree?
God Bless,
Joe

[countrymousenc]

It's an interesting question. Just thinking "out loud" ...

Judas belonged to the Zealot party, who most adamantly expected that when the Messiah came, He would lead the Jews in a military coup against the Roman oppressors and win. Jesus hadn't shown much sign of fulfilling those expectations, and it may be that Judas thought that a real confrontation with imperial soldiers would give Jesus the impetus He needed, or perhaps that if Jesus and the Sanhedrin got together, they'd work out a plan. Either way, we also know that Judas was the greedy sort, and that he sold Jesus to His enemies for a price. (Which fulfilled prophecy.) Judas didn't apparantly expect Jesus to be condemned and executed, and was sorry that it didn't go the way he expected and that Jesus ended up being exectuted. Moreover, in hanging himself, he demonstrated lack of faith.

Peter, on the other hand, had shown a pattern of overconfidence (like many of us) and was sure he was a better man than one who would abandon his Teacher in the face of danger. After the fact, Peter cried bitterly, but he was a changed man.

Peter couldn't have single-handedly stopped the trial and execution, whereas Judas could have resisted the temptation to sell Jesus out.

Judas plotted and planned; Peter chickened out at the last minute. Both of them sinned, but what does their behavior tell us about what was in their hearts?

[Veritas]

Judas betrayed Jesus, Peter denied Him. Jesus prophesied both events. But only one of them could accept the forgiveness that Jesus offered. Therefore, only one (Judas) actually rejected Him.

[LuxPerpetua]

It kind of makes you feel for Judas' mom . . . or at least I do. :(

[Tappanga]

I think it was not only that Peter repented to God, while Judas only repented to the temple priests, I think it was because Peter then used his life to preach the Word, while Judas only hung himself in shame.

[Wilfred of Ivanhoe]

I think we can safely, within the Bible say that Judas is in Hell. Did not Jesus say it would be better for him whom betrayed him if he had never been born? Is not Judas called the son of perdition?

As to countrymousenc's thoughs on why Judas did what he did. That is an interesting story, but I'd prefer to stay away from fallable man rationalising why certain things happened as they did. I've gone through all four gospels several times just this year and have never seen anything to confirm that. I'm not saying that isn't how it happened, but I don't think it matters at any rate. I am very learly of people who try to explain God's mysteries in ways that humans can understand. I would prefer to have the faith of a child in these areas and simply trust that Judas did what he did because God ordained it. I hope I didn't come off too harsh, but that is what I believe :wave:

I pray that the Lord would reveal within my heart where I do such things as well.

I think that this is as far as we should take this argument. Judas repented of his worldly actions but did not seek God's forgiveness. Peter was bitter of his actions and was allowed the opportunity to be forgiven.

[JMRE5150]

Judas betrayed Jesus, Peter denied Him. Jesus prophesied both events. But only one of them could accept the forgiveness that Jesus offered. Therefore, only one (Judas) actually rejected Him.This is dead on. And lets remember that Judas KNEW he was the Son of God, knew his miracles...and still sent him to his accusers, and eventually the cross. Peter knew he was God, but denied Jesus to save his own hide...because he was afraid for his own life. My point is, doing what Peter did is a basic human trait that is sinful in its own right, but not as evil as sending the Living God to his end. Judas had the devil working through him, but Peter was acting like we all are...flawed men/women in sin.

Robb

[Andry]

So given the choice in friendship, which one would you choose? Judas or Peter?

[JMRE5150]

So given the choice in friendship, which one would you choose? Judas or Peter?Very very interesting question....

I'd have to say Peter, because while being denied is horrible as a friend, its got to be alot worse than being "thrown to the wolves". Lets not forget an important thing: Jesus knew that Peter would repent, and spread the message throughout the known world about salvation, and Jesus' purpose here on Earth.

I'd like to think Peter far outways Judas who may have betrayed Jesus by doing what he did, but guess what? He also broke one of God's commandments, and killed himself. Peter repented, as did Judas, but Peter DID something with his repentance, and helped to change the world. Judas was always thinking about himself, even in the end when he took his own life.

I would always take Peter hands down. A friend who denies you but comes back to you is always better than a friend who betrays you then laughs in God's face by killing himself. Wouldn't you agree?

Robb

[Andry]

Very very interesting question....

I'd have to say Peter, because while being denied is horrible as a friend, its got to be alot worse than being "thrown to the wolves". Lets not forget an important thing: Jesus knew that Peter would repent, and spread the message throughout the known world about salvation, and Jesus' purpose here on Earth.

I'd like to think Peter far outways Judas who may have betrayed Jesus by doing what he did, but guess what? He also broke one of God's commandments, and killed himself. Peter repented, as did Judas, but Peter DID something with his repentance, and helped to change the world. Judas was always thinking about himself, even in the end when he took his own life.

I would always take Peter hands down. A friend who denies you but comes back to you is always better than a friend who betrays you then laughs in God's face by killing himself. Wouldn't you agree?

Robb

That was well spoken, so I do appreciate your perspective.

Which one of those two men, Judas or Peter, helped Jesus the most, to fulfill his destiny? Which one of those two men, would have prevented Jesus from fulfilling his destiny? That’s interesting isn’t it.

Clearly Judas assisted Jesus to fulfill his destiny, while Peter was an opposition and an obstacle to the completion of Jesus’ destiny in the earth.

John 6:70 says, ‘Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil’. 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) NIV

Do you think that Jesus choosing Judas was a mistake? That Jesus in some hair-brained moment of madness and unconstraint, suddenly thought, ‘I’ll choose that guy to be part of the twelve?’ Or do you believe that Jesus chose Judas in full understanding that Judas would betray him, and that it was the purposes of God to choose Judas. That’s very interesting isn’t it? So would you agree in order to do that you would have to be thinking on a slightly higher level than most of us think?

We have to come to an understanding of thinking on a higher level in our lives that, ‘nothing shall by any means hurt you.’ Luke 10:19

But you see, we read the Bible but we don’t actually believe it. So we can’t accommodate a Judas, cause we see how Judas betrays, and think, that man is going to spoil my destiny. No, he’s probably going to help your destiny. That the things you thought that you have to get rid of are probably the greatest help in your life, right now, to bring you where you need to be in God.

In John, chapter 13, we come to the last supper. And Jesus is reclining at the table, and John is leaning on Jesus, and of course He makes the statement that says one of them is going to betray Him. Now Peter wants to know, who’s going to betray Jesus. So Jesus wouldn’t tell him. Cause with all his good points if Peter gets to know, guess what’s going to happen to Judas? And then what’s going to happen to Jesus? What happens to His future? How does He now make the cross? Cause one of the most significant pieces in the puzzle to take Him to the destiny that would change the world would now be missing.

And in John 13:27 it says as soon as Judas took the bread, satan entered him, ‘What you are about to do, do quickly.’ Jesus told him.

How incredible that Jesus actually commissioned Judas to betray him by the word of the Lord. That Jesus gave Judas a mandate from heaven, to go and do what he was about to do. What courage, what a level of understanding of the issues of life, to release the man who is about to betray you, that will cost you your life, to go and fulfill his purpose. And then we wonder sometimes why the will of God does not unfold for us. Cause our thinking needs to change because we do not yet understand the things that contribute to the fulfilling of our destiny.

Had Jesus accommodated the desires of Peter, he would have had success. Because Peter would have supported Jesus, to get the Romans out of Israel, and as the statement goes in Acts 1:6, ‘… restore the kingdom of Israel of this time.’

You see the problem is we come to Peter’s side of the equation, and we start building the wrong kingdom, we start fighting for the wrong things. We start protecting the wrong issues. And we have our bright moments, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.’ A little bright moment – the lights came on for just a second. Just for a second, because a second later, ‘I won’t let you die.’

Peter would have given Jesus success. All the natural acclaim, that he could ever wanted. Think about it, just let your mind wander a bit. Jesus, if He doesn’t sin, He can’t die. If He can’t die He’s got the opportunity to build a natural kingdom that will last forever. He has the power and authority as a legitimate son of Adam. Therefore He can wreak havoc, in His righteous way throughout the earth. He gets success. But you see if He follows Judas, He gets significance, which is a whole different thing. That success, affected His generation. Significance, affects the world forever.

But you see if we are going to build something that will last forever, we’ve got to get to the level where we can see that the Judas situations in our lives, is bringing us to the fulfillment of our destiny. But in the process we may die - to self - but we will rise again, in Christ.

[Tappanga]

Very very interesting question....

I'd have to say Peter, because while being denied is horrible as a friend, its got to be alot worse than being "thrown to the wolves". Lets not forget an important thing: Jesus knew that Peter would repent, and spread the message throughout the known world about salvation, and Jesus' purpose here on Earth.

I'd like to think Peter far outways Judas who may have betrayed Jesus by doing what he did, but guess what? He also broke one of God's commandments, and killed himself. Peter repented, as did Judas, but Peter DID something with his repentance, and helped to change the world. Judas was always thinking about himself, even in the end when he took his own life.

I would always take Peter hands down. A friend who denies you but comes back to you is always better than a friend who betrays you then laughs in God's face by killing himself. Wouldn't you agree?

Robb

I completely agree with all of this and couldn't have said it better myself.

[bloodofthelamb12]

Bear in mind there were still consequences for Peter: because he had betrayed His Master's confidence, he was later martyred on a cross. Consider John 21...

"When Jesus and his disciples had finished eating, he asked, "Simon son of John, do you love me more than the others do?" Simon Peter answered, "Yes, Lord, you know I do!" "Then feed my lambs," Jesus said.

Jesus asked a second time, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter answered, "Yes, Lord, you know I love you!" "Then take care of my sheep," Jesus told him.

Jesus asked a third time, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus had asked him three times if he loved him. So he told Jesus, "Lord, you know everything. You know I love you." Jesus replied, "Feed my sheep.

I tell you for certain that when you were a young man, you dressed yourself and went wherever you wanted to go. But when you are old, you will hold out your hands. Then others will wrap your belt around you and lead you where you don't want to go."

[boughtwithaprice]

Very very interesting question....

I'd have to say Peter, because while being denied is horrible as a friend, its got to be alot worse than being "thrown to the wolves". Lets not forget an important thing: Jesus knew that Peter would repent, and spread the message throughout the known world about salvation, and Jesus' purpose here on Earth.

I'd like to think Peter far outways Judas who may have betrayed Jesus by doing what he did, but guess what? He also broke one of God's commandments, and killed himself. Peter repented, as did Judas, but Peter DID something with his repentance, and helped to change the world. Judas was always thinking about himself, even in the end when he took his own life.

I would always take Peter hands down. A friend who denies you but comes back to you is always better than a friend who betrays you then laughs in God's face by killing himself. Wouldn't you agree?

Robb

This is a very great and interesting thread guys. I always wondered about Judas. Why would he be in hell if he is so sorry for his sin? I thought those in hell would be standing proud and defiant toward God:scratch: Then I learned about the sins against hope. The sins of presumption and despair.
In the 'Divine Comedy' by Dante, the lowest pit in hell is not the hottest furnace, but the coldest, darkest, icyest pit....ice formed by the tears of invicible despair. Satan is not a mighty defiant being of evil, rather a pathetic creature that is frozen in his own tears.
Despair is the feeling of no hope........like the sign says, "abandon all hope, all ye that enter here" Despair is a sin because it is really pride in disguise. The being refuses to be consoled, because he has committed sin so horrible that he feels God can't and won't forgive him. Every time Judas saw Jesus, he did not see a redeemer, but was reminded of his sin. A sin that Judas judged unforgivable, he sought to run away from God to death.
His pride judged that he (Judas) could/would not be forgiven, so he sentenced himself to death, and chose to be in hell, rather than seek forgiveness from God.

Peter wept bitterly, but was not filled up with pride; he humbled himself and came back. He saw Jesus as Redeemer:clap:

[Razzie]

Very very interesting question....

I'd have to say Peter, because while being denied is horrible as a friend, its got to be alot worse than being "thrown to the wolves". Lets not forget an important thing: Jesus knew that Peter would repent, and spread the message throughout the known world about salvation, and Jesus' purpose here on Earth.

I'd like to think Peter far outways Judas who may have betrayed Jesus by doing what he did, but guess what? He also broke one of God's commandments, and killed himself. Peter repented, as did Judas, but Peter DID something with his repentance, and helped to change the world. Judas was always thinking about himself, even in the end when he took his own life.

I would always take Peter hands down. A friend who denies you but comes back to you is always better than a friend who betrays you then laughs in God's face by killing himself. Wouldn't you agree?

Robb

Yes i agree with you Robb.

[JMRE5150]

Yes i agree with you Robb.
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[aanjt]

I disagree with Robb about Judas laughing in the face of God when he hung himself. Does anyone here know what it is like to be suicidal? The last thing that I was doing when I was suicidal was "what can I do to disrespect God." I was in such of a depression that I could not see there was any hope. Death, for me, would have been a blessing. I literally thought at the time that my family would be better off without me. That without me, my husband would not have a wife so depressed, hearing voices, seeing things, etc, that my children would not have a mother doing these things and that if my life ended my family could move on and eventually find a woman who could be a better wife and mother. I was in a lot of pain that I could not get out of at that time. Hospitalization, with a lot of mixing of meds finally worked (and of course prayers). Can we step back for a moment and think if this was where Judas was? That he was in such despair that he betrayed Christ, that he could not see any hope at the end, that he was in such pain and mental anguish that at that time death seemed like a blessing? Maybe he took Christ's words to heart of "it would have been better if that person was not born." and said, "He's right! He is the Christ, it is better if I was not born." and proceeded to hang himself. People who commit suicide, generally, cannot think rationally. I believe that Judas did repent and the evidence of that, IMO, is when he returned the money. Why would he need to ask for forgiveness (repent) to the leaders? They wanted him arrested. I believe that Judas, not being in his right mind, could not live with what he did. He probably saw Christ scourged, beaten, etc and just could not bear what he did to his Lord. I have a hard time believing that Judas is in hell. Besides, if it was prophesied that this is what Judas would do, did Judas really have a choice? If God was going to have him do this, how much of a choice did Judas have?

Yours in Christ,
Jen