I am having a serious problem...

[Theopneustos3_16]

Hello, I am having a serious problem with people wanting to compromise the word of God. People saying homosexuality is not a sin, when the Bible clearly demonstrates it is in Romans 1:26-28, and Jude 7. I also have a problem with people saying there is justification through works, since Romans chapter 3&4 not to mention Ephesians 2:8-9 speak of salvation through grace & faith. Not to mention there is a belief which states works aren't important, would you care to explain to me how James 2:14 says that Faith is dead being alone (meaning you're not going to be demonstrating it to people because you don't really have faith). And in Act when peter says "Repent and TURN AWAY FROM your sin." He also says "Repent and let your WORKS demonstrate what God has done in you." I'm sorry but I have a very big problem with people compromising the word trying to come up with clever ways to make excuses for believing something when infact the Bible is what needs to shape our opinions. Revelations says "Cursed is he who adds or takes away from this book." If you add to scripture, you better repent ask for forgiveness, if you take away from scripture you better ask forgiveness because that is not pleasing to God. I don't worry about sounding condemning because if all of you who read this are Christians, you'll know how to handle it.
God Bless

[LuxPerpetua]

I have problems with these things, too. Personally, I think all of us Christians get some things wrong . . . it's part of our human weakness. I think that God knows this and I pray that He will have mercy on all us for doing such a rotten job at times of showing His love and message of forgiveness to the world. Goodness knows I've been a bad example many times. :( I've finally concluded for myself that complete and thorough understanding of Christian doctrine and mysteries is not important. Which person does God approve of more--the one who knows the law and observes it perfectly or the one who doesn't fully understand everything but loves and shows mercy? I think the Gospels answer this question rather clearly. Personally, I think much more highly of Christians who may think homosexuality is not a sin but are very involved in charities and social work than a Christian who adamantly condemns homosexuality but is selfish. We are all guilty of sins against God and against our brothers and sisters. We all need forgiveness, and we get that not through our own merit but through our faith in God's grace to those who love Him in spite of their continual misunderstandings and screw-ups.

[BBAS 64]

Hello, I am having a serious problem with people wanting to compromise the word of God. People saying homosexuality is not a sin, when the Bible clearly demonstrates it is in Romans 1:26-28, and Jude 7. I also have a problem with people saying there is justification through works, since Romans chapter 3&4 not to mention Ephesians 2:8-9 speak of salvation through grace & faith. Not to mention there is a belief which states works aren't important, would you care to explain to me how James 2:14 says that Faith is dead being alone (meaning you're not going to be demonstrating it to people because you don't really have faith). And in Act when peter says "Repent and TURN AWAY FROM your sin." He also says "Repent and let your WORKS demonstrate what God has done in you." I'm sorry but I have a very big problem with people compromising the word trying to come up with clever ways to make excuses for believing something when infact the Bible is what needs to shape our opinions. Revelations says "Cursed is he who adds or takes away from this book." If you add to scripture, you better repent ask for forgiveness, if you take away from scripture you better ask forgiveness because that is not pleasing to God. I don't worry about sounding condemning because if all of you who read this are Christians, you'll know how to handle it.
God Bless
Good Day, Theopneustos

I am sorry seems you have molded to many questions together in one post and I am finding it hard to isolate your thoughts in to single questions. If you could seperate them out a bit.

Peace to u,

Cold medicine messes with Bill's mind! ^_^


BBAS

[theseed]

I don't exaclty understand your post, but you are correct, the scriptures clearly indicate that God intends for marriage to be between a man and a woman only.

I believe our goal is not to condem people because of thier sins, but show them their need for a savior because of sin. True, many will deny they have any sin. We have the delicate task of loving the sinner but not the sin. Such is hard to do alot of times. I beleive that we can help people who are homosexual, but we should not wink at thier sin. This is true for any kind of person. We can help them, and helping them does not mean we accept thier sin or what they are doing. The best we can do is warn them of the dangers, and let God know the rest. Most homosexual people know that homosexuality is wrong according to the bible. So pointing this out is not necessary.

Does anybody have any ideas on how the a church or Christians should treat homosexuals or how a church should treat a member who is openly homosexual?

[seebs]

Not to be picky, but...

If homosexuality is a sin, and you have to avoid homosexuality to be saved, then isn't that itself a "work"? Aren't you yourself arguing for salvation via works, indirectly?

[seebs]

Does anybody have any ideas on how the a church or Christians should treat homosexuals or how a church should treat a member who is openly homosexual?

Many, many, ideas.

My current belief, based on years of prayer and consideration, is this.

I believe that homosexuals, like any other societal outcast, are among those we are most called to minister to. It would be convenient if God would simply change them all, but then, it would be convenient if God always healed crippled limbs, so people wouldn't need wheelchairs.

In practice, we will often find that a given person does not appear to be on the short list for immediate deliverance from this burden.

Given that, I think we must make every effort we can to get them into the church, and get them involved in service and worship. It is, in the end, God's business how to redeem people from their sins, or free them from temptation. It is not ours.

For me, then, the answer is to support them as best I can. If they find themselves convicted against homosexual activity, then I will support them in trying to resist temptation. If they do not have such convictions, then I will nonetheless support them in what other ways I can. For instance, I will defend their right to be a part of the fellowship of believers, I will defend their legal rights, and I will try to make sure that they are always made welcome.

The alternatives are ridiculous. It's like refusing to add wheelchair accessibility to a hospital, on the grounds that people who aren't serious enough about being healed to get better on their own shouldn't be coming to a hospital. It's saying that there are people who aren't good enough to become Christians yet.

If there are people that are not good enough to become Christians, they are us; we, too, are not worthy. We are no better than these people. We have no special merit.

Jesus came for the lost, not the saved. Are we to be His sheep? Then we must follow His example, and come for the lost. If they are lost, then let us come for them, and comfort them, and bring them into His presence.

[artybloke]

Hello, I am having a serious problem with people wanting to compromise the word of God.

Why are you pointing out the mite in other peoples' eyes when you are asked to look to the log in your own eye?

I have serious problems with people who think that their interpretation of the Bible has come down to them from heaven on a silver platter. It seems to me that they are replacing the Spirit of Christ (who is the one and only true and living Word - there is no other) with the letter of old Levitical laws that Christ Himself fulfilled and made unnecessary for Christians to keep. We don't stop wearing clothes made from mixed fibre, though the Bible says it's an abomination.

I also have a serious problem with people who compromise the clear teaching of Christ and the prophets and support and vote for the rapacious capitalist money-grabbing of many major corporations. That to me is much more of a compromise, as the Bible is a lot clearer about that than it is about homosexuality.

So I'm not very good at not pointing out the mite in other peoples' eyes myself.

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

[Metanoia02]

We should treat homosexuals, who are members of your Church no differently then someone who is openly engaged in an adulterous affair. To treat them any different would be unfair. If your church confronts a member who is in an openly adulterous affair and asks him or her to turn from thier sin, the same treatment should be given to the openly homosexual person. These are public sins that if left to go unadressed can undermine a community of faith.

[seebs]

We should treat homosexuals, who are members of your Church no differently then someone who is openly engaged in an adulterous affair. To treat them any different would be unfair. If your church confronts a member who is in an openly adulterous affair and asks him or her to turn from thier sin, the same treatment should be given to the openly homosexual person. These are public sins that if left to go unadressed can undermine a community of faith.

It should also be treated no differently than, say, someone who openly refuses to give to charity, or a gossip (who may do it "in secret", but the community will generally know), or someone given to wrath.

People tend to treat sexual sins as much bigger deals than all others, but I don't think there's a great deal of support for this.

[theseed]

Given that, I think we must make every effort we can to get them into the church, and get them involved in service and worship. It is, in the end, God's business how to redeem people from their sins, or free them from temptation. It is not ours.

Yes, I agree. We can't redeem people from thier sins. Only God can change the heart in regards to sin--only God can sanctify a person. But we are called to invite all people into God's kingdom and should shun no one.

For me, then, the answer is to support them as best I can. If they find themselves convicted against homosexual activity, then I will support them in trying to resist temptation. If they do not have such convictions, then I will nonetheless support them in what other ways I can. For instance, I will defend their right to be a part of the fellowship of believers, I will defend their legal rights, and I will try to make sure that they are always made welcome.

I too would defend thier legal rights, except to marry. Often people want to keep homosexuals out of thier hometown and they preach sin but not salvation. How can they hear the good news if they are not invited? This why Rhea County in TN, counsil men, made an unbiblical choice to ban homosexuals.

The alternatives are ridiculous. It's like refusing to add wheelchair accessibility to a hospital, on the grounds that people who aren't serious enough about being healed to get better on their own shouldn't be coming to a hospital. It's saying that there are people who aren't good enough to become Christians yet.

This reminds me of the parable about the banquet. None of the rich people showed up, so the guy had to invite the crippled and blind.

If there are people that are not good enough to become Christians, they are us; we, too, are not worthy. We are no better than these people. We have no special merit.

:amen: We are all "sinners in the hands of an angry God" without Christ.

Jesus came for the lost, not the saved. Are we to be His sheep? Then we must follow His example, and come for the lost. If they are lost, then let us come for them, and comfort them, and bring them into His presence

Yes, no one seeks to be saved unless they believe they need thier sins payed for, or they feel trapped and want out of thier sin. This feeling of entrapment and this burden to escape sin is all the reason that one needs to seek Christ. These days, we see people who deny sin and its existance, and they see no reason to need Jesus Christ. God does not call us to share the good news to such people, but to those that need a healer and forgiver. Don't get me wrong, we need to share the good news with everyone, but God must open thier eyes if they are to believe. Does this sound contradictory? Look at it this way, God has chosen the weak in this world to be strong if faith (1Cor. 1).

I tell you the truth, there are people who struggle with pornagraphy, drugs, homosexuality, and the like. Some these people are Christians who are saved by the blood of the Lamb. It is the Church's job to help such people who seek a way out.

[Prodigal Sun]

In the name of God, Peace

This will be very brief but, God is absolutely perfect, if you have lied or thought just one unclean thought, then you are doomed to death. The smallest of sin is a great sin in the eye of God but through Jesus Christ's blood, we are cleansed from all unrighteousness and saved.

So I think it's fruitless to adress homosexuality as one of the worst sins, all sins lead to death but Jesus sacrifice leads to life.

[Theopneustos3_16]

I should set something straight. In order to recieve Christ you must deny yourself, why? because in order to recieve His will for your life, you must deny your own. Jesus said, "If any man follow me let him pick up his cross daily." I believe that repentance is an act, but to say that one must change themselves to be saved is a misinterpretation of what I am saying. What I am saying is that your works will demonstrate your faith, repentance is a work but it demonstrates the faith you put into Christs' blood. Peter said if you repent then change your ways and act like you have repented since repentance is a life transformation, and through Christ we're dead to sin [Amen].

My origional post had nothing to do with not helping homosexuals or anything of that nature. My origional post was strictly to say "the scriptures show that the Bible does not accept homosexuality". I am not sure how it got to that point but, let's bring it back to the scriptures, are we basing what the Bible says on man's opinion? or man's opinion on what the Bible says? If we make our theology around what society tells us, then we need to repent, because we're saying God must heed to our opinion.

Also, prodigal son, thinking unclean thoughts is not a sin, it is uncontrollable, it's when that unclean thought births lust. Paul said "take every thought captive in the name of Jesus Christ." so that way ungodly lust is avoided. Jesus faced everything we did, after all He was fully man and fully God, not God in skin, but fully man, thus he battled temptation and sin and unclean thoughts as we do now. Which is why His death could forgive us and give us strength against all those things.

[Utah Knight]

i feel that homosexuality is wrong due to what it says in the bible men shall sleep with men as one of the signs of the times

[PatrickM]

I have serious problems with people who think that their interpretation of the Bible has come down to them from heaven on a silver platter. It seems to me that they are replacing the Spirit of Christ (who is the one and only true and living Word - there is no other) with the letter of old Levitical laws that Christ Himself fulfilled and made unnecessary for Christians to keep. We don't stop wearing clothes made from mixed fibre, though the Bible says it's an abomination.
Does this apply to everyone except you? "replacing the Spirit of Christ with the letter of old Levitical laws . . ." Couldn't this be considered your interpretation ? I believe the OP mentioned more NT verses than the "old Levitical laws."
I also have a serious problem with people who compromise the clear teaching of Christ and the prophets and support and vote for the rapacious capitalist money-grabbing of many major corporations. That to me is much more of a compromise, as the Bible is a lot clearer about that than it is about homosexuality.
Really? A lot clearer? Are "corporations" mentioned in Scripture? Do all corporations claim to be Christians? Do two wrongs therefore make a right?

Your tirade regarding "money-grabbing" is irrevelant to the OP. He is specifically talking about homosexuality, not sin in general.

[Svt4Him]

Why are you pointing out the mite in other peoples' eyes when you are asked to look to the log in your own eye?


The Bible says take the log out of your eye, THEN the one in the other's eye.

I have serious problems with people who think that their interpretation of the Bible has come down to them from heaven on a silver platter. It seems to me that they are replacing the Spirit of Christ (who is the one and only true and living Word - there is no other) with the letter of old Levitical laws that Christ Himself fulfilled and made unnecessary for Christians to keep. We don't stop wearing clothes made from mixed fibre, though the Bible says it's an abomination.

I also have a serious problem with people who compromise the clear teaching of Christ and the prophets and support and vote for the rapacious capitalist money-grabbing of many major corporations. That to me is much more of a compromise, as the Bible is a lot clearer about that than it is about homosexuality.

Oh, the irony.

[9-iron]

http://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuote:http://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right.gifhttp://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gifI have serious problems with people who think that their interpretation of the Bible has come down to them from heaven on a silver platter. It seems to me that they are replacing the Spirit of Christ (who is the one and only true and living Word - there is no other) with the letter of old Levitical laws that Christ Himself fulfilled and made unnecessary for Christians to keep. We don't stop wearing clothes made from mixed fibre, though the Bible says it's an abomination.

I also have a serious problem with people who compromise the clear teaching of Christ and the prophets and support and vote for the rapacious capitalist money-grabbing of many major corporations. That to me is much more of a compromise, as the Bible is a lot clearer about that than it is about homosexuality.
</FONT>http://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.christianforums.com/images/quotes/quot-bot-right.gif
Oh, the irony.




:D ROTHFLMHO!!!!!!!!