Can Charismatics debate here?

[ufonium2]

Having recently been told (in so many words) by a Charismatic that I should stay in my own forum (this was in PRE), it dawned on me that Charismatics have their own forum just like Catholics, Orthodox and Messianic Jews, yet they are apparently allowed to debate here in PRE as well. Why is that?

I understand Charismatics can align themselves with any denomination, but does that give them the right to debate in PRE?

[Greeter]

PREs are allowed to debate in PRE. Some of us are also Charismatic as well, but it is not being Charismatic that allows you to debate here, it is being PRE.

[LuxPerpetua]

What is charismatic???

[ethereal hope]

Lex, charismatics are the ones who believe spiritual gifts never ceased. (The early Church said they had ceased so people would stop making claims about secret knowledge and coming up with new canon. However, it popped back up in the late 1800s.)

[LuxPerpetua]

Which Protestant denominations are charismatic? Would that be Pentecostals and such?

[boughtwithaprice]

Which Protestant denominations are charismatic? Would that be Pentecostals and such?
The main Charismatic denominations are

Church of God
Four Square
Assembly of God

There are some pentecostal denominations that deny the Trinity, but the three mentioned are Trinitarian and are the main charismatic denominations.

[Jim B]

Having recently been told (in so many words) by a Charismatic that I should stay in my own forum (this was in PRE), it dawned on me that Charismatics have their own forum just like Catholics, Orthodox and Messianic Jews, yet they are apparently allowed to debate here in PRE as well. Why is that?

I understand Charismatics can align themselves with any denomination, but does that give them the right to debate in PRE?
Hey, u.

I am Vineyard so I am somewhere between Charismatics and Evangelicals (nobody likes us ;) !) and I have noticed that on the Charismatic forum they are definitely more sensitive, defensive, and suspicious (and sometimes even hateful) than what I am finding on other forums.

This may come from a history of being shunned and ridiculed by PRE’s. I would be defensive, too. They defend their forum from those who come in to debate tired old issues and resurrect old ridicules. So, if you go on their forum to criticize you might catch it on the chin (I have).

You just need to know where their defensiveness comes from.

\o/

[LynneClomina]

its charismatics only NOT because we are a different denomination (most of us would be protestant in the simplest definition ie. including anabaptists) but becuase we dont wish to debate things like "did the gifts cease?" "are tongues of the devil?" and "dont you know that's NOT the spirit of God.....?". we just wish to discuss charismatic stuff in a charismatic way without defending it all the time. much the same as protestants in general dont wish to always have to defend, or catholics, or orthodox, or messianic, etc. there are forums for those discussions.

you are totally welcome to come and fellowship, read stuff from a bit of a different perspective, and ask questions to understand our view. just not debate the differences in doctrine. keep the peace. just like here, OBOB, TAW, etc.

sorry someone was mean. that's not christlike and sheds a bad light on us. i'm sorry.

[LynneClomina]

oh, and another point... i'm a calvinist, whereas most of the good folk over on the charismatic board are arminian. so when it comes to talking about election and predestination from a calvinist standpoint, it doesnt usually fly. so i would hate to be unable to debate here on the basis of being a charismatic. i dont generally debate predestination over there, and i probably wont debate (discuss, sure) spiritual gifts over here if it ever came up.

[ChrisB]

PRE is quite a broad term, for example there are some Anglicans who are indistinguishable from Evangelicals (we recently had an ordained Anglican minister preach at my Evangelical Free Church) and there are others who are to all intents and purposes Catholics. I think charismatics are in a similar position - although I don't think we should place too great an emphasis on speaking in tongues etc I don't think I would deny it's validity in all circumstances. As long as charismatics don't deny the validity of other gifts of the Spirit I think they could post here quite happily - most are definitely Protestant after all.

[Plan 9]

The main Charismatic denominations are

Church of God
Four Square
Assembly of God

There are some pentecostal denominations that deny the Trinity, but the three mentioned are Trinitarian and are the main charismatic denominations.

BWAP is speaking of the Church of God (Anderson, IN).
The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) is a "Oneness" or "Jesus Only" denomination.
Because this can be a source of confusion at times, I just thought I'd add it as a footnote to this fine post. :)

[LynneClomina]

PRE is quite a broad term, for example there are some Anglicans who are indistinguishable from Evangelicals (we recently had an ordained Anglican minister preach at my Evangelical Free Church) and there are others who are to all intents and purposes Catholics. I think charismatics are in a similar position - although I don't think we should place too great an emphasis on speaking in tongues etc I don't think I would deny it's validity in all circumstances. As long as charismatics don't deny the validity of other gifts of the Spirit I think they could post here quite happily - most are definitely Protestant after all.

which gifts do charismatics deny??? :scratch:

[Jim B]

BWAP is speaking of the Church of God (Anderson, IN).
The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) is a "Oneness" or "Jesus Only" denomination.
Because this can be a source of confusion at times, I just thought I'd add it as a footnote to this fine post. :)
To clarify.

The Church of God, Anderson IN, is not a Pentecostal denomination. Bill & Gloria Gaither and Sandi Patty are members of this denomination. They are more perfectionist holiness, like the Church of the Nazarene or Congregational Methodists.

The Church of God, Cleveland TN, is a Trinitarian Pentecostal denomination (not Oneness/Unitarian like the United Pentecostal Church), who believe, like the above, that sanctification is a separate work of grace whcih precedes the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with tongues).

\o/

[Plan 9]

To clarify.

The Church of God, Anderson IN, is not a Pentecostal denomination. Bill & Gloria Gaither and Sandi Patty are members of this denomination. They are more perfectionist holiness, like the Church of the Nazarene or Congregational Methodists.

The Church of God, Cleveland TN, is a Trinitarian Pentecostal denomination (not Oneness/Unitarian like the United Pentecostal Church), who believe, like the above, that sanctification is a separate work of grace whcih precedes the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (with tongues).

\o/
Well, that's not how it was explained to me when I visited in Anderson, IN (where many of them were sure speaking in tongues at the time), or what the Cleveland folks led me to believe when I once visited at one of their churches (yes, they also told me that they believed in entire sanctification), nor is it what my pastor at my charismatic church in Fort Wayne, IN told me, and the Bill Gaither Trio (do I have that right, at least??? LOL) came to sing for us quite often, just as our singers frequently went there. However, that was many years ago, so I'm than willing to take your word for it.
Times have certainly changed, so, as an old fogey, I'll just shuffle off now and make no more statements of this nature based on personal experience of thirty years ago and more. :wave:

[Svt4Him]

I would say most charismatics are protestant, which is a RC term, but not all protestants are charismatic. So what would exclude a charismatic from posting in protestant?

[boughtwithaprice]

BWAP is speaking of the Church of God (Anderson, IN).
The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) is a "Oneness" or "Jesus Only" denomination.
Because this can be a source of confusion at times, I just thought I'd add it as a footnote to this fine post. :)
thank you for clarifying, Plan 9. I did not want to be a source of confusion. I was going by my memory of Jimmy Swaggart from the Assembly of God. He always mentioned the three that I did as being Trinitarian and Pentecostal.
I used to be Assembly of God, and I read the statement of faith of Four Square. They were atarted by Amie Semple Mcpherson, I believe. The Pentecostal denominations grew out of the Asuza street (sp?) revival in 1906. I thought that there was a trinitarian Chruch of God that was Pentecostal:scratch: I was aware of the Jesus Only groups which is why I foot noted my post.

sorry again if I gave misinformation:sorry:

[Greeter]

I would say most charismatics are protestant, which is a RC term, but not all protestants are charismatic. So what would exclude a charismatic from posting in protestant?
I think there are Catholics and Orthodox on the boards who are charismatic as well.

[boughtwithaprice]

I think there are Catholics and Orthodox on the boards who are charismatic as well.
You would be correct:D ;) brother Greeter:)

[HumbleMan]

I am Church of God, Cleveland, and we are most definitetly NOT Oneness pentecostals.

I identify myself as Charismatic because I believe the gifts haven't ceased. I can't put God in a box when there is no absolute proof in the bible that it is so. I do get in trouble, though, when I mention that I think some people are so intent on speaking in tongues that they elevate tongues to a prideful quest. Paul says tongues were the least of the gifts, and I think he knew that they would be used for self elevation. We must be careful that we are not inviting something else besides the Spirit when we pray.

I enjoy the PRE board because I believe that not only worship, but discipleship and teaching are a very important aspect of our walk.

[Svt4Him]

I think there are Catholics and Orthodox on the boards who are charismatic as well.
Hence the reason I said most, not all.

[ChrisB]

which gifts do charismatics deny??? :scratch:

I'm thinking here of gifts like serving, teaching, encouraging and administration. According to Paul these gifts are every bit as valid as tongues, healing or prophecy but some charismatics appear to regard them as "second-class" gifts and give the impression that someone who does not have the more "spectacular" gifts is not truly saved.

I'm not having a go at charismatics in general, I think we can learn much from them in terms of faith and passion for Jesus. I'm just saying that some appear to have this attitude.

[Svt4Him]

I'm thinking here of gifts like serving, teaching, encouraging and administration. According to Paul these gifts are every bit as valid as tongues, healing or prophecy but some charismatics appear to regard them as "second-class" gifts and give the impression that someone who does not have the more "spectacular" gifts is not truly saved.

I'm not having a go at charismatics in general, I think we can learn much from them in terms of faith and passion for Jesus. I'm just saying that some appear to have this attitude.
Yes, there are some in error, yet there are pretty much some of every denomination in error.

[PatrickM]

Lex, charismatics are the ones who believe spiritual gifts never ceased. (The early Church said they had ceased so people would stop making claims about secret knowledge and coming up with new canon. However, it popped back up in the late 1800s.)
Not to be argumentative here :D, but Eusebius wrote of gifts being in existence in his day in his Eccl. History, cir. 4th century. And there is much written of their existence throughout church history. They didn't "pop" back in the late 1800s.

[Plan 9]

thank you for clarifying, Plan 9. I did not want to be a source of confusion. I was going by my memory of Jimmy Swaggart from the Assembly of God. He always mentioned the three that I did as being Trinitarian and Pentecostal.
I used to be Assembly of God, and I read the statement of faith of Four Square. They were atarted by Amie Semple Mcpherson, I believe. The Pentecostal denominations grew out of the Asuza street (sp?) revival in 1906. I thought that there was a trinitarian Chruch of God that was Pentecostal:scratch: I was aware of the Jesus Only groups which is why I foot noted my post.

sorry again if I gave misinformation:sorry:
You information is accurate according to my sources. :scratch:

A friend of mine did her Master's thesis on the homiletics of Aimee Semple McPherson, and traveled to Angelus Temple to study there. She found rolf McPherson to be a fine, hospitible man, and used to worry that he wouldn't like her thesis when she sent him a copy. lol
I thought it was great myself!
Sister Aimee was a fascinating woman and she fed and clothed many people during the Great Depression. :)