Need Orthodox advice

[Maggie893]

Could someone with a solid knowledge of Russian Orthodoxy take a look at this link and tell me what you think?
http://user.transit.ru/~maria/arch_john_en.htm

I received a document written by this man from a friend who was trying to help some Russian priests print it in English. My friends are Roman Catholic and they asked me to review it. It didn't take long for me to see some significant problems with the text. I am certain it is nothing that the orthodox churches would approve of and I know the Roman Catholic church wouldn't. I'm trying to do some additional background research for my friends so that they can speak intelligently to these priests but I don't know enough about the Russian orthodox church to discern what is legit and what isn't. I'm guessing this guy isn't orthodox but I'd like some knowledgable help with that assumption.

Thanks for whatever you might be able to offer.

Maggie

[Sergius_Lucius]

Chuch of the Mother of God Derjavnaya aka "Theotokos' Center (Bogorodichniy tsentr)", a New Age cult disguised as an Orthodox Church.

[Maggie893]

Thank you so much that is what I thought I might hear. I appreciate your checking it out for me.

[Moros]

"...the movement combines the best in the Eastern Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant churches, revering saints of the world religions."

[Matrona]

Could someone with a solid knowledge of Russian Orthodoxy take a look at this link and tell me what you think?
http://user.transit.ru/~maria/arch_john_en.htm

I received a document written by this man from a friend who was trying to help some Russian priests print it in English. My friends are Roman Catholic and they asked me to review it. It didn't take long for me to see some significant problems with the text. I am certain it is nothing that the orthodox churches would approve of and I know the Roman Catholic church wouldn't. I'm trying to do some additional background research for my friends so that they can speak intelligently to these priests but I don't know enough about the Russian orthodox church to discern what is legit and what isn't. I'm guessing this guy isn't orthodox but I'd like some knowledgable help with that assumption.

Thanks for whatever you might be able to offer.

Maggie
This is weird. He definitely sounds like a schismatic. We don't worship Mary, we only respect her as the birth-giver of the incarnate God.

[Maggie893]

Yes. I was fairly certain that Orthodox churches were inline with Roman Catholic in the area of Mary. That was a first clue for me in the writings that I received.

Here's a quote you'll appreciate I'm sure:

There thunders the voice of the Father:

“Let the firmament break and a rain of fire pour down! Hearken to the voice of the Lord, Universe! I send unto the world My Daughter, named henceforth the Daughter of the Father in Heaven, the Virgin Mary Mother of God, Queen of the World;

Her Who stands at the right hand of the Holy Trinity, consubstantial with the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Hearken to Her, for every word uttered by Her is the will of God that descends unto the world through prophetic lips.” :eek:

That's from a vision he apparantly had. The worst part is that I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt because the writing was being translated but in the pdf version I received the word consubstantial was underlined.

The writings are clearly not of God. I just wanted to be sure that before I responded to the request made of me that I was certain of the churches status. If it was a Russian Orthodox church I would want to be careful not to refute the church while refuting the author.

It's guys like this that add to the confusion for protestants. gggrrr:mad:

Thanks so much!

[prodromos]

It says he was made a bishop under ROAC. Whether this is true or not, ROAC are definitely schismatic.

[Sergius_Lucius]

Hey, Maggie!

Sorry I disappeared after one post.

Here (http://www.apolresearch.org/win/disphtml_win.php3?id=242) is a report (in Russian) on them by an inter-denominational anti-cult group. It says they have ties with pseudo-Catholic "Universal Marian Church", which was disavowed by Vatican. They also teach that Bereslavsky's profesies are the "Third Testament"; Mary is Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the same time etc.

It is known that Bereslavsky was ordained into hieromonk (priest-monk) by "True Orthodox Church" (schismatic), but then was excommunicated for heresy.

It's completely "self-made" church, they never were associated with the canonical Russian Church. They try to look "ecumenical" and adopted some Catholic traditions (rosary, Mary's statues). So thank you for not letting them fool more people.

[Sergius_Lucius]

It says he was made a bishop under ROAC. Whether this is true or not, ROAC are definitely schismatic.
chirotonised bishop of Russian Autocephalous Orthodox Church by Metropolitan John (Bodnarchuk) of Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.
No, it is not ROAC (those who broke away from ROCOR). ROAC stands for "Autonomous". AFAIK, "Russian Autocephalous Orthodox Church" is how Bereslavsky's followers call themselves. Such a mess...

[prodromos]

No, it is not ROAC (those who broke away from ROCOR). ROAC stands for "Autonomous". AFAIK, "Russian Autocephalous Orthodox Church" is how Bereslavsky's followers call themselves. Such a mess...
Ah, my apologies. Thank you for the correction :)

[Oblio]

Oh great, now there is a RAOC along with ROAC :sigh:

[Reader Nilus]

Oh great, now there is a RAOC along with ROAC :sigh:Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church (http://www.roac-suzdal.narod.ru/bishops.html) which is not to be confused with ROCA, Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, AKA ROCOR. We have seen ROAC around before Oblio.
Jeff the Finn

[Oblio]

Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church (http://www.roac-suzdal.narod.ru/bishops.html) which is not to be confused with ROCA, Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, AKA ROCOR. We have seen ROAC around before Oblio.
Jeff the Finn


I know Jeff, I am all to familiar with the ROAC crowd (or at least those who have posted here) but that post seemed to indicate that there was a separate RAOC schismatic group.

[ExOrienteLux]

:sigh:

I love the alphabet soup of Orthodox and Ultradox jurisdictions, don't you?

[Maggie893]

wow! So now I'm just asking this out of curiousity and of course ignorance. My understanding is that there is an Eastern Orthodox Church. Is this the same as a Russian Orthodox church? I thought it was but with the prior posts I'm now not sure I understand. How many legitimate orthodox "denominations" are there? I use that word simply for a lack of another appropriate word.

[Maggie893]

By the way all your information on Bereslavsky is greatly appreciated and it has helped me pull my friends out of these dialogues. The priests who want the book printed are really pushing right now and so my friends are working to explain their change of heart and getting out of this warped relationship with them. It's highly deceptive and I'm disturbed by their games. Your information has really helped my friends see the truth of this work. Thank you so much!

[ExOrienteLux]

wow! So now I'm just asking this out of curiousity and of course ignorance. My understanding is that there is an Eastern Orthodox Church. Is this the same as a Russian Orthodox church? I thought it was but with the prior posts I'm now not sure I understand. How many legitimate orthodox "denominations" are there? I use that word simply for a lack of another appropriate word. Maggie893,

The Orthodox Church is not necessarily 'Eastern', per se, but it's just happened that it was churches in the East that remained Orthodox (as we would say).

The different 'denominations', as you call them, are better termed 'jurisdictions'. The Russian Orthodox Church has jurisdiction in Russia, the Greek Church in Greece, the Alexandrian Church in Egypt and all of Africa, the Serbian Church in Serbia, etc., etc.

Now, things really get muddled when the jurisdictions crossed the oceans. By rights, America should have a Church of her own, the 'American Orthodox Church', if you will. But, the Russian Revolution knocked that train from its tracks and we've spent the last century trying to get back on track. The jumble of different jurisdicitons in this country is both noncanonical and very confusing for the non-Orthodox. It helps contribute to the (erroneous) belief that Orthodoxy is 'just for the Greeks, Russians, and other immigrants who talk funny'. Speaking as a former Protestant whose ancestors come from Ireland, Scotland, Italy, and Germany, I can tell you for a fact that this is not true.

As to how many legitimate jurisdictions there are, the pictures on this site (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/) are of the heads of the autocephalous and autonomous Orthodox Churches of the world. If a church is in communion with one of these Churches, then there's a very good chance that they're canonical.

Feel free to ask any more questions that you may have. We'll be more than glad to help you!

Oh, and welcome to TAW!

+IC XC NIKA+
Josh.

[Oblio]

How many legitimate orthodox "denominations" are there? I use that word simply for a lack of another appropriate word.


In the USA, if they are legitimate (many of those discussed are not, think Orthodox SSPX :) ), the preferred term is jurisdiction.

[Sergius_Lucius]

wow! So now I'm just asking this out of curiousity and of course ignorance. My understanding is that there is an Eastern Orthodox Church. Is this the same as a Russian Orthodox church? I thought it was but with the prior posts I'm now not sure I understand. How many legitimate orthodox "denominations" are there? I use that word simply for a lack of another appropriate word.
Hello Maggie! The Russian Orthodox Church is one of the local Churches that compose the (Eastern) Orthodox Church.
This site (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/autoceph.html) may be helpful.

There are also Oriental Churches (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/oriental.html) that are separated presently from Eastern, but quite close to us.

Glad to help.
Sergey

[Maggie893]

Maggie893,

The Orthodox Church is not necessarily 'Eastern', per se, but it's just happened that it was churches in the East that remained Orthodox (as we would say).

The different 'denominations', as you call them, are better termed 'jurisdictions'. The Russian Orthodox Church has jurisdiction in Russia, the Greek Church in Greece, the Alexandrian Church in Egypt and all of Africa, the Serbian Church in Serbia, etc., etc.

Now, things really get muddled when the jurisdictions crossed the oceans. By rights, America should have a Church of her own, the 'American Orthodox Church', if you will. But, the Russian Revolution knocked that train from its tracks and we've spent the last century trying to get back on track. The jumble of different jurisdicitons in this country is both noncanonical and very confusing for the non-Orthodox. It helps contribute to the (erroneous) belief that Orthodoxy is 'just for the Greeks, Russians, and other immigrants who talk funny'. Speaking as a former Protestant whose ancestors come from Ireland, Scotland, Italy, and Germany, I can tell you for a fact that this is not true.

As to how many legitimate jurisdictions there are, the pictures on this site (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/) are of the heads of the autocephalous and autonomous Orthodox Churches of the world. If a church is in communion with one of these Churches, then there's a very good chance that they're canonical.

Feel free to ask any more questions that you may have. We'll be more than glad to help you!

Oh, and welcome to TAW!

+IC XC NIKA+
Josh.
Ok this is extremely helpful to me. I had no idea how this was setup. I must say that photos on the site link you gave are great. It's so great to see such tradition in attire and appearance. I could only think of the Jewish High Priests when I looked at those guys. Very cool!


In the USA, if they are legitimate (many of those discussed are not, think Orthodox SSPX :) ), the preferred term is jurisdiction.
Thank you for that:) . Somehow I knew denomination was inaccurate.

Hello Maggie! The Russian Orthodox Church is one of the local Churches that compose the (Eastern) Orthodox Church.
This site (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/autoceph.html) may be helpful.

There are also Oriental Churches (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/oriental.html) that are separated presently from Eastern, but quite close to us.

Glad to help.
Sergey
This is great information. I'm plowing through some of it now. So do you all share the same doctrine? Does each jurisdiction have it's own? My limited understanding was that the significant issue seperating orthodox churches from Roman Catholic churches was the issue of the Pontiff. Is this accurate?

[Sergius_Lucius]

This is great information. I'm plowing through some of it now. So do you all share the same doctrine? Does each jurisdiction have it's own? My limited understanding was that the significant issue seperating orthodox churches from Roman Catholic churches was the issue of the Pontiff. Is this accurate?
Yes, we all share the same doctine and yes, we don't accept the Catholic view of the Papacy.

[Sergius_Lucius]

BTW, you're very lucky that you won't have to publish his works, 'cause he has written about 200 volumes of prophesies! :)

[Maggie893]

BTW, you're very lucky that you won't have to publish his works, 'cause he has written about 200 volumes of prophesies! :)
Yes. Thank you for that! I wasn't directly involved but my friends are a bit hurt by the whole situation. Very much a situation of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

Thank you for all your help.

[ufonium2]

As to how many legitimate jurisdictions there are, the pictures on this site (http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/) are of the heads of the autocephalous and autonomous Orthodox Churches of the world. If a church is in communion with one of these Churches, then there's a very good chance that they're canonical.


That's a cool site. The Patriarch of Japan looks so young...and Japanese! Very cool!

[Sergius_Lucius]

That's a cool site. The Patriarch of Japan looks so young...and Japanese! Very cool!
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/sykon/database/imagebase/1107.jpg Although he is 66 year old. :) He has studied at St. Vlad's, btw.

[Theophorus]

This is great information. I'm plowing through some of it now. So do you all share the same doctrine? Does each jurisdiction have it's own? My limited understanding was that the significant issue seperating orthodox churches from Roman Catholic churches was the issue of the Pontiff. Is this accurate?
Orthodoxy also does not accept the filioque, doctrine of original sin, or the immaculate conception.