Time for Outreach

[SPALATIN]

CrossWiseMag has a very good point about False doctrine on the non-christian forums. These forums are for outreach and how many of us go to OBOB or GT or just stay here and commune only with our kind? We need to take our faith outside the box and give those in need the unadulterated word of God. I am not saying we shouldn't come back here because that is wrong as well. We need to come back here for encouragement and strength to keep going to the forums that need to hear his word.

Let's go therefore and preach the Gospel as Christ commanded us in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[JMRE5150]

CrossWiseMag has a very good point about False doctrine on the non-christian forums. These forums are for outreach and how many of us go to OBOB or GT or just stay here and commune only with our kind? We need to take our faith outside the box and give those in need the unadulterated word of God. I am not saying we shouldn't come back here because that is wrong as well. We need to come back here for encouragement and strength to keep going to the forums that need to hear his word.

Let's go therefore and preach the Gospel as Christ commanded us in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.We are all called upon to make witness...I agree. What good is a follower of Christ if they aren't baring witness? Thats called "stagnant faith" in my eyes, but alas, I'm just a humble servant.

YOU HEARD THE MAN! SADDLE UP AND GET GOING! CHRIST IS COUNTING ON YOU! BARE WITNESS TO BELIEVER AND NON-BELIEVER ALIKE! :preach:

Robb

[SPALATIN]

We are all called upon to make witness...I agree. What good is a follower of Christ if they aren't baring witness? Thats called "stagnant faith" in my eyes, but alas, I'm just a humble servant.

YOU HEARD THE MAN! SADDLE UP AND GET GOING! CHRIST IS COUNTING ON YOU! BARE WITNESS TO BELIEVER AND NON-BELIEVER ALIKE! :preach:

Robb
Makes you wanna get out the Stephen Curtis Chapman song "Saddle up your horses, we've gotta tail to tell."

[filosofer]

For those who can I strongly encourage you to do so.

BUT....

Before anyone feels false guilt about this, keep in mind the situation that some of us are in. For isntance, I have limited time to participate in the boards - I have a full-time job; I teach two Bible classes/week, involving background Hebrew and Greek study;I am counseling people from church; I am preparing Bible College curriculum; I am writing a book that needs to be done by December; I have a wife, son, DIL, three grandchildren. I encounter non-Christians everyday at work. I witness regularly to those that I can.

When I come to the boards, I use this as a time for relief from that. Thus, I am very selective about threads and sections in which I participate - in fact, only three (here, Exposition, and Hermeneutics). Even in those there is plenty of false teaching to go around. And many responses are "off-the-cuff" that seem to satisfy but really set the person up for failure, disallusionment, etc. Could I "correct" them in those three sections? Sure, but I don't have the time, even if I didn't have a full-time job.

Witnessing effectively, studying Scripture with a goal of maturity in the faith - those are serious goals. It takes energy, time, etc. To effectively witness on this board, you have to be prepared for extended discussion, and patiently ask the questions that will lead a person to re-consider. Anger, impatience, etc. will never work - in person, nor on the boards.

just some ramblings from an old codger...

[SPALATIN]

For those who can I strongly encourage you to do so.

BUT....

Before anyone feels false guilt about this, keep in mind the situation that some of us are in. For isntance, I have limited time to participate in the boards - I have a full-time job; I teach two Bible classes/week, involving background Hebrew and Greek study;I am counseling people from church; I am preparing Bible College curriculum; I am writing a book that needs to be done by December; I have a wife, son, DIL, three grandchildren. I encounter non-Christians everyday at work. I witness regularly to those that I can.

When I come to the boards, I use this as a time for relief from that. Thus, I am very selective about threads and sections in which I participate - in fact, only three (here, Exposition, and Hermeneutics). Even in those there is plenty of false teaching to go around. And many responses are "off-the-cuff" that seem to satisfy but really set the person up for failure, disallusionment, etc. Could I "correct" them in those three sections? Sure, but I don't have the time, even if I didn't have a full-time job.

Witnessing effectively, studying Scripture with a goal of maturity in the faith - those are serious goals. It takes energy, time, etc. To effectively witness on this board, you have to be prepared for extended discussion, and patiently ask the questions that will lead a person to re-consider. Anger, impatience, etc. will never work - in person, nor on the boards.

just some ramblings from an old codger...
Okay, Let me refine my original post to say that if you have the time and ability please do so. I certainly would understand a person like yourself Filo who has a full plate and family to boot not being able to take part in this and I wouldn't expect you to either. You come here for an occasional discussion or to just say hello. You are doing your part in the Great commission, but there are those of us who every now and again need to spread our wings and fly with what we know to be the truth and spread it in love.

Scott

[CrossWiseMag]

I wasn't intending to rile up a bunch of Lutherans to go out and storm the ChristianForums site. If some of us do it, all the better. But filosofer is right: it's a daunting task. There's way too much false teaching at this site alone to be able to counter it all. I initially asked my question because, now that I know how much falsehood if out there, I feel a little guilty about not spending more time alerting people to it. On the other hand, I can't be spending all my time in here, either. I guess we just need to find a balance, sharing a word of truth when we can.

[SPALATIN]

I wasn't intending to rile up a bunch of Lutherans to go out and storm the ChristianForums site. If some of us do it, all the better. But filosofer is right: it's a daunting task. There's way too much false teaching at this site alone to be able to counter it all. I initially asked my question because, now that I know how much falsehood if out there, I feel a little guilty about not spending more time alerting people to it. On the other hand, I can't be spending all my time in here, either. I guess we just need to find a balance, sharing a word of truth when we can.
I for one just appreciate the alert. I don't intend to go there unless I have the time of day for it.

[Flipper]

Did I ever tell you guys why I started hanging out here (not like you'd be interested or anything)? I've been a member for a couple of years, but only posting regularly for a few months.

I was a regular on another Christian Messageboard which had evolved from yet another one that I was a member of since 2000. On this other Christian Messageboard, I was one of the only Lutherans, lately the only Lutheran. While I think the intent of that particular board was very honorable, the fact was that most of the discussions are about things that we as Lutherans find very much against scripture. Some things, I made a stand on and argued, but when it was just me against a bunch of others, you can imagine who "won" and over there in every argument, it will be argued to death until one can declare themselves the winner. You have no idea how respectful all of you, my fellow Lutherans, are as debaters. You are to be commended.

With the amazement of how certain issues can bring out the worst of people over there, and with all the back stabbing and two sidedness I was seeing from people, I knew I had to leave. It got personal, it was affecting my non-cyber life. That's not healthy. When your only social outlet in life is a semi-anomynous messageboard, there is something seriously wrong with you. I can hear the jokes on that statement coming. Guys, I'm serious, it's very unhealthy.

Since I came here, I have realized how far I actually strayed from the true Christian path. First of all, I'm no theologian, so I can't argue as well as most of you can. Second, right now in my life, I need the comfort and safety of this particular forum, so I can "re-learn" much of what I lost. Even though I feel like I was a Christian my entire life, I have never felt so much more like a baby (new) Christian as I do now.

That all being said, you don't want me on the other forums fighting the good fight right now - I'll ruin the cause. Right now, I'm better off sitting here, soaking up the correct information, and being a cheerleader for the more proficiant ones.

[ByzantineDixie]

This has been a tough thread to digest because everyone has good intentions and important points to make but everyone also has a different situation and perspective. Some come to teach, some come to learn, some come to share of themselves, some come to comfort, some come to battle the heresies.

There is a role each of us can play and each of us need not play the same role. (Same Body, different parts)

I have learned so much since I have come here and I have had the opportunity to share in RL lots of what I have learned. Flipper is right, this is a safe and comfortable place to learn and to play and to teach and to comfort. I suppose we could all go over and learn at LQ but that would neither be safe nor comfortable. :(

And filo's right...if you are gonna hang out online...why not hang out with Lutherans!!! We can be fun...well, after a beer or two anyway! ;)

I need to echo something else filo said...

To effectively witness on this board, you have to be prepared for extended discussion, and patiently ask the questions that will lead a person to re-consider. Anger, impatience, etc. will never work - in person, nor on the boards.
Sometimes you even have to be prepared for extended one on one dialog. Its an investment and it can be very rewarding but it's a mistake to assume a couple of quick posts and your job is done.

Anyway...I am so happy I found CF and this marvelous group of Lutherans...my visits here are brightspots in my day and I thank all of you for that!

:hug: Rose

[JMRE5150]

EEK, leave it to us Lutherans to over-analyze the gesture of witnessing as available...


Folks, I personally don't believe Scott meant his "charge to leave these forums" as a direct order to those who don't see fit to do this. NATURALLY as Christians and as Lutherans we understand that many can't or aren't in a place of their faith that warrants this. Nor do we expect this.

We obviously realize that many cant, or dont feel comfortable expressing this at their stage of faith. This doesn't need explaination in my eyes. We need to agree early in this thread that this was simply (and assumed) a charge to those willing to do so at their stage of faith and understanding.

Guess I'm saying "Chill folks...this isn't a call for all of us", but my guess is, most folks already know this, but feel the need to defend their current beliefs on this subject.

If you feel ready, do it, if not, thats fine too. WE aren't silly...we understand those that may be ill-prepared our unwilling, due to sensitive issues, can't witness. Heck yeah, it might even be due to time constraints. Naturally we realize this. This obviously wasn't meant as a charge directly to you. Why do we constantly (as Lutherans) try to over-justify or over-analyze a charge to take action?

I personally sensed Scott's meaning behind it all, and understood that he wasn't charging all of us to abandon where we feel comfortable. Let's move past that notion, and get on with the discussion of witnessing (if able and willing) in other forums, which I believe was his intent.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it needed reconciliation,
Robb

[SPALATIN]

EEK, leave it to us Lutherans to over-analyze the gesture of witnessing as available...


Folks, I personally don't believe Scott meant his "charge to leave these forums" as a direct order to those who don't see fit to do this. NATURALLY as Christians and as Lutherans we understand that many can't or aren't in a place of their faith that warrants this. Nor do we expect this.

We obviously realize that many cant, or dont feel comfortable expressing this at their stage of faith. This doesn't need explaination in my eyes. We need to agree early in this thread that this was simply (and assumed) a charge to those willing to do so at their stage of faith and understanding.

Guess I'm saying "Chill folks...this isn't a call for all of us", but my guess is, most folks already know this, but feel the need to defend their current beliefs on this subject.

If you feel ready, do it, if not, thats fine too. WE aren't silly...we understand those that may be ill-prepared our unwilling, due to sensitive issues, can't witness. Heck yeah, it might even be due to time constraints. Naturally we realize this. This obviously wasn't meant as a charge directly to you. Why do we constantly (as Lutherans) try to over-justify or over-analyze a charge to take action?

I personally sensed Scott's meaning behind it all, and understood that he wasn't charging all of us to abandon where we feel comfortable. Let's move past that notion, and get on with the discussion of witnessing (if able and willing) in other forums, which I believe was his intent.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it needed reconciliation,
Robb
Again I apologize if anyone got the wrong idea from my OP. I was so taken by CrossWiseMag's thread that I was hoping to challenge a few of us to go out and battle the false doctrines on the other message boards. I wasn't trying to advocate anything else. This is a great forum and I think of all of you as friends. If you have the ability to do outreach I do encourage it, but if it is not your cup of tea then you won't be disappointing me. Everyone here has a different gift and should use it the way that God intended.

Scott Strohkirch

[Flipper]

EEK, leave it to us Lutherans to over-analyze the gesture of witnessing as available...


Folks, I personally don't believe Scott meant his "charge to leave these forums" as a direct order to those who don't see fit to do this. NATURALLY as Christians and as Lutherans we understand that many can't or aren't in a place of their faith that warrants this. Nor do we expect this.

We obviously realize that many cant, or dont feel comfortable expressing this at their stage of faith. This doesn't need explaination in my eyes. We need to agree early in this thread that this was simply (and assumed) a charge to those willing to do so at their stage of faith and understanding.

Guess I'm saying "Chill folks...this isn't a call for all of us", but my guess is, most folks already know this, but feel the need to defend their current beliefs on this subject.

If you feel ready, do it, if not, thats fine too. WE aren't silly...we understand those that may be ill-prepared our unwilling, due to sensitive issues, can't witness. Heck yeah, it might even be due to time constraints. Naturally we realize this. This obviously wasn't meant as a charge directly to you. Why do we constantly (as Lutherans) try to over-justify or over-analyze a charge to take action?

I personally sensed Scott's meaning behind it all, and understood that he wasn't charging all of us to abandon where we feel comfortable. Let's move past that notion, and get on with the discussion of witnessing (if able and willing) in other forums, which I believe was his intent.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it needed reconciliation,
Robb
Robb, sweety, you are awesome. :hug:

You really should hang out with us more.

I reread my post and Rose's, and I can see where you would think that we were freaking out at Scott's notion about witnessing on other forums. Neither of us were, and I would be surprised if Scott and most everyone else here thought we were.

The cool thing about this forum is that we can bluntly share our feelings and concerns, and those feelings and concerns are respected. In no way was I or Rose criticizing what Scott and CrossWiseMag wants to do. It's an honorable calling that needs to be answered by more Lutherans. Also, in no way did Rose or I (hope Rose doesn't mind if I speak to her) think that they believed that every single one of us needs to be out there. The intent of this thread is not a threat to either of us.

We're Lutherans! We don't always argue things to death, but we do discuss them to death. That's all that's going on here. No one here is against the intent of this thread.

Thank you for trying to protect us though. It was very kind of you. :)

[CrossWiseMag]

I had to come back in here to warn everyone that Scott appears to be on fire for the Lord (dare I say, "Ablaze?"). He's out there throwing around incendiary terms like "Baptism saves!" in the middle of a bunch of American evangelicals! The whole place could catch fire at any moment! Run for your lives!!

(Just kidding you, Scott! I think it's awesome!)

[JMRE5150]

I had to come back in here to warn everyone that Scott appears to be on fire for the Lord (dare I say, "Ablaze?"). He's out there throwing around incendiary terms like "Baptism saves!" in the middle of a bunch of American evangelicals! The whole place could catch fire at any moment! Run for your lives!!

(Just kidding you, Scott! I think it's awesome!)
YOU SAID "ABLAZE"?!?!?!? Oh you went and did it now, didn't you?

Well, there goes the forums!

*punches timecard out and goes home*

Just kidding Scott. Rock on, mate! Do what you feel the Lord is telling you to do!

[JMRE5150]

You really should hang out with us more.

I'd love to, but alas, I mod 6 different forums here now (we are hugely understaffed here at CF.com and spread quite thin), and my duties here take up alot of my time. Rest assured, I do call this forum home and miss you guys terribly.

I try to drop in here for some banter ever now and then, though!

Love you folks, and thanks for keeping the Confessional Lutherans section alive and growing!

Robb

[SPALATIN]

I had to come back in here to warn everyone that Scott appears to be on fire for the Lord (dare I say, "Ablaze?"). He's out there throwing around incendiary terms like "Baptism saves!" in the middle of a bunch of American evangelicals! The whole place could catch fire at any moment! Run for your lives!!

(Just kidding you, Scott! I think it's awesome!)
Well hey if they want to spread around the gasoline the least I can do is light a match to get things warmed up some.

We all know what the word ABLAZE will do on LQ. Someone will want to get a bucket of water and put it out.

[KagomeShuko]

Well hey if they want to spread around the gasoline the least I can do is light a match to get things warmed up some.

We all know what the word ABLAZE will do on LQ. Someone will want to get a bucket of water and put it out.
We could always get Michael from Lost And Found to do "The Truly New Dance" which apparently looks like his reaction to the floor being on fire . . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[filosofer]

EEK, leave it to us Lutherans to over-analyze the gesture of witnessing as available...


Folks, I personally don't believe Scott meant his "charge to leave these forums" as a direct order to those who don't see fit to do this. NATURALLY as Christians and as Lutherans we understand that many can't or aren't in a place of their faith that warrants this. Nor do we expect this.

We obviously realize that many cant, or dont feel comfortable expressing this at their stage of faith. This doesn't need explaination in my eyes. We need to agree early in this thread that this was simply (and assumed) a charge to those willing to do so at their stage of faith and understanding.

Guess I'm saying "Chill folks...this isn't a call for all of us", but my guess is, most folks already know this, but feel the need to defend their current beliefs on this subject.

If you feel ready, do it, if not, thats fine too. WE aren't silly...we understand those that may be ill-prepared our unwilling, due to sensitive issues, can't witness. Heck yeah, it might even be due to time constraints. Naturally we realize this. This obviously wasn't meant as a charge directly to you. Why do we constantly (as Lutherans) try to over-justify or over-analyze a charge to take action?

I personally sensed Scott's meaning behind it all, and understood that he wasn't charging all of us to abandon where we feel comfortable. Let's move past that notion, and get on with the discussion of witnessing (if able and willing) in other forums, which I believe was his intent.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it needed reconciliation,
Robb
If you knew me, you would know I did not post to "justify" my non-posting elsewhere on the boards. I have known Scott long enough to know his intention was good; that is why my post started with the encouragement to do so. And I respect Scott and others who have the time, training, energy, patience, emotional stamina, etc. to do so.

However, there are many who are relatively new to the faith, and maybe new to Lutheranism, who read these threads. My concern is that many times they will take at face value what is said/written, and in the process set themselves up for failure or discouragement or disallusionment. By reading that some who are a "little older in the faith" (by more than a half century!) also do not post in those forums, they can be reassured that there are valid reasons not to post, without feeling the guilt. And they can see the wisdom of preparing for the posting style that will be effective.

[JMRE5150]

If you knew me, you would know I did not post to "justify" my non-posting elsewhere on the boards. I have known Scott long enough to know his intention was good; that is why my post started with the encouragement to do so. My post in this thread was not directed at anyone in particular. It was a general statement for not only those that did already respond, but to those that may not have read the thread yet but might post later on.

It was not so much of a reactive statement as one might think, but rather a proactive statement for those continuing to post or will post in the future to help clear things up that noone expects those who are ill-prepared, unwilling or simply can't do to other reasons (time, personal, etc).

As a Mod, I noticed the tone of the thread turning into folks posting why they'd rather not head out to other forums for witnessing more than folks discussing the importance to witness as Scott asked, and I was simply trying to change that tone. This, however, wasn't stated as a "You can't post why you don't or can't witness in 'those other forums'"; but rather it was an attempt to shift the discussion of witnessing in those other forums to a more upbeat "How should we go about this?" or "Here's some good ideas to get our Lutheran views out to those that need to hear it" tone.

By all means, this is your CF.com as much as it is mine. If you want to post reasons why some folks can't, or shouldn't, thats great too. But lets try and interject some other thoughts on what has so enthused our dear friend Scott and others. It will be most helpful for those that can or are willing to take on his charge to witness, I think.

Just my .02

Robb

[Razzie]

By all means, this is your CF.com as much as it is mine. If you want to post reasons why some folks can't, or shouldn't, thats great too. But lets try and interject some other thoughts on what has so enthused our dear friend Scott and others. It will be most helpful for those that can or are willing to take on his charge to witness, I think.

Just my .02

Robb
I think you have a great Point. :thumbsup:

[CrossWiseMag]

I think the important thing to keep in mind, as my pastor reminds me, is that we are not responsible for converting anyone. We simply share the Word, and the power of the Word does the converting. The Gospel is the power of salvation to those who believe, after all.

[JMRE5150]

Excellent reminder, mate! Thanks for the incite!


Robb

[SPALATIN]

So far i have found the biggest doctrinal blunder to be that of "decision" theology. Many who are sharing will say "first you must accept Jesus." I told one of them to get his doctrine correct before he shares. Another thread was asking about Ecumenism and breaking bread with other denominations. My answer was that unless a doctrinal agreement could be reached I could not break break bread at communion with them.

[Zoomer]

So far i have found the biggest doctrinal blunder to be that of "decision" theology

That's why I put the quote from the Luther in my signature. Maybe if it is read enough, it will sink in :).

[SPALATIN]

[/color][/font]

That's why I put the quote from the Luther in my signature. Maybe if it is read enough, it will sink in :).
I love that quote and use some of it sometimes when arguing that point.

[KagomeShuko]

I think the important thing to keep in mind, as my pastor reminds me, is that we are not responsible for converting anyone. We simply share the Word, and the power of the Word does the converting. The Gospel is the power of salvation to those who believe, after all.
Very true! Our job is witnessing and sharing the word. I think that's sometimes what bothers me about these Christian concerts, which I like, but these altar calls and what they say to the crowds tend to make people think that they are responsible for actually "making" people Christians rather than just sharing the Good News.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[night2day]

I think the important thing to keep in mind, as my pastor reminds me, is that we are not responsible for converting anyone. We simply share the Word, and the power of the Word does the converting. The Gospel is the power of salvation to those who believe, after all.

Very good point. Which is what concerns me about the "ABLAZE!", the program being officially promoted by the LCMS. We're not to focus on the numbers of people we witness too...we're simply told to be witnesses.

The number of who we may or may not draw isn't ours to say.

Just as one cannot gather whether or not one receives the unadulterated Law and Gospel simply by how many people may be members of a church.

[CrossWiseMag]

Check out some of the stories posted about personal witnessing at the Ablaze website, and you can see just what a mess it is. I'm sorry, but "I shared the importance of putting Christ at the center of your life," is not a Gospel witness!

[night2day]

Check out some of the stories posted about personal witnessing at the Ablaze website, and you can see just what a mess it is. I'm sorry, but "I shared the importance of putting Christ at the center of your life," is not a Gospel witness!

But, gives an example of how the Theology of Glory has made it's way upfront into the synod. :sigh:

[SPALATIN]

Hey let's make sure we don't turn this into LQ2 here. So far we have managed to keep from complaining too much about the synod directives on this forum. An occasional diatribe is okay but we don't want it to get out of hand. Also keep in mind the Lutheran forum rules.

[CrossWiseMag]

Scott, I don't think there's any danger of that. And I also don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the theological problems with the Ablaze! program. I'm a member of an LCMS congregation, so there's no inter-synod bashing going on. Just because Ablaze! is a political program at its heart, doesn't mean any discussion of it is necessarily political. We could have the same discussion about any program that relies on numbers for its ultimate measure of success. It's just not Biblical. It relies on a business model that fails to recognize the power in the Word, rather than the ways the word is "marketed."

[SPALATIN]

Scott, I don't think there's any danger of that. And I also don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the theological problems with the Ablaze! program. I'm a member of an LCMS congregation, so there's no inter-synod bashing going on. Just because Ablaze! is a political program at its heart, doesn't mean any discussion of it is necessarily political. We could have the same discussion about any program that relies on numbers for its ultimate measure of success. It's just not Biblical. It relies on a business model that fails to recognize the power in the Word, rather than the ways the word is "marketed."

I agree whole heartedly that whenever we rely on numbers we get off-track as to the reason we do anything in the church. We are not a business that relies on numbers to show success, but are part of God's Holy people. We need only to follow the Great commission and then let God grow the church if that is his will.

[KagomeShuko]

Oi. . .outreach on these boards, or even just asking questions out of curiousity, gives me a headache. I'm not going and telling people, "my beliefs are right and yours are wrong." However,they seem to act like that and tell me how this is right, and that is right.

Talk about some SDAs and some people who are wondering about the nature of God and Christ's body. . .gives me a headache just reading those posts. So sad that Christians act like that, really.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[filosofer]

I agree whole heartedly that whenever we rely on numbers we get off-track as to the reason we do anything in the church. We are not a business that relies on numbers to show success, but are part of God's Holy people. We need only to follow the Great commission and then let God grow the church if that is his will.
I think we have to be careful on this. Numbers are used in Acts (generic "about 5,000", "3,000", etc.), so numbers to note growth is not unBiblical. Even the "good old LCMS" (if such a thing ever existed) kept track of numbers [Baptisms, Lord's Supper, Confirmands, etc.], and the most ultra-right wing LCMSers will also refer to numbers to talk about their congregations.

The danger is moving toward a method that encourages growth for growth's sake, or that uses technique to replace Word and Sacrament. And this can happen even with sound theology.

[SPALATIN]

I think we have to be careful on this. Numbers are used in Acts (generic "about 5,000", "3,000", etc.), so numbers to note growth is not unBiblical. Even the "good old LCMS" (if such a thing ever existed) kept track of numbers [Baptisms, Lord's Supper, Confirmands, etc.], and the most ultra-right wing LCMSers will also refer to numbers to talk about their congregations.

The danger is moving toward a method that encourages growth for growth's sake, or that uses technique to replace Word and Sacrament. And this can happen even with sound theology.
I think that is what I was trying to say, but you said it much better.:thumbsup:

[night2day]

So far we have managed to keep from complaining too much about the synod directives on this forum. An occasional diatribe is okay but we don't want it to get out of hand...

As far as I'm concerned it's a pure theological issue that should be addressed.

Whether the LCMS is following it's official standing and profession of doctrine as a synod or not is another issue altogether.

[night2day]

I think we have to be careful on this. Numbers are used in Acts (generic "about 5,000", "3,000", etc.), so numbers to note growth is not unBiblical.

Well...keep in mind this was after the fact. Peter and the other disciples preached their sermons without worry of how many would be reached. They just preached under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The numbers indicated how many were brought to Christ by the Holy Spirit working through the Gospel as a result of the sermon. It certainly wasn't used as a "we need to reach this many to grow". They simply did as God asked and God worked through them to bring about His purpose.

Too many today methinks look to what the results they think they should be instead of allowing God to work as He wills.

The danger is moving toward a method that encourages growth for growth's sake, or that uses technique to replace Word and Sacrament. And this can happen even with sound theology.

I agree. The growth movement within the church in general focuses on something else rather than the Gospel. I'm not sure how it could happen with sound theology since...either the pure unadulterated Law and Gospel and the Sacraments administered as Christ commanded takes place...or another system is used. They way I view it, one will always cancel the other out.

[ByzantineDixie]

Hey let's make sure we don't turn this into LQ2 here. So far we have managed to keep from complaining too much about the synod directives on this forum. An occasional diatribe is okay but we don't want it to get out of hand. Also keep in mind the Lutheran forum rules.
Thanks, Scott!

:hug: Rose

[SPALATIN]

Was over on the Outreach forum for a few minutes today and one person was giving another advice on how to "get saved" She suggested reading the Gospel of John and finding the verses that speak of his deity.

This alone through me over the edge. I told her that first we should give them the Law so that they know what sin is and convince them that they have a need for what Jesus did. Then present them with the Gospel. She took little if no responsibility in her post and I let her know this. It is astounding how much bad theology is being put there.

[filosofer]

Was over on the Outreach forum for a few minutes today and one person was giving another advice on how to "get saved" She suggested reading the Gospel of John and finding the verses that speak of his deity.

This alone through me over the edge. I told her that first we should give them the Law so that they know what sin is and convince them that they have a need for what Jesus did. Then present them with the Gospel. She took little if no responsibility in her post and I let her know this. It is astounding how much bad theology is being put there.

The problem is you (nor she) don't know whether the Law has ALREADY been spoken to the person. In other words, we are not the ones to unload the whole load of hay for the cattle (from my days on the farm). If the person has been crushed by the Law, then the person needs the Gospel. Check out the different responses to the same question (Mark 10:17-23 and Acts 16:25-33).

[SPALATIN]

The problem is you (nor she) don't know whether the Law has ALREADY been spoken to the person. In other words, we are not the ones to unload the whole load of hay for the cattle (from my days on the farm). If the person has been crushed by the Law, then the person needs the Gospel. Check out the different responses to the same question (Mark 10:17-23 and Acts 16:25-33).
You would be correct here. First we must determine what they are going through. Have they been crushed already by the law and just need the Gospel or do they need a good dose of the Law first.

[Wolfdragon]

CrossWiseMag has a very good point about False doctrine on the non-christian forums. These forums are for outreach and how many of us go to OBOB or GT or just stay here and commune only with our kind? We need to take our faith outside the box and give those in need the unadulterated word of God.
Praise God that CrossWiseMag was right. :bow:

It was he who has been helping me understand so many things lately. Without him going to the outreach forums, I likely would no longer even be using these forums. God chose to use CrossWise and many others on this forum to help in guiding my back to our Saviour.

Just had to give a small shameless plug to my new Brother CrossWise, and all my new Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

:groupray:

[SPALATIN]

Praise God that CrossWiseMag was right. :bow:

It was he who has been helping me understand so many things lately. Without him going to the outreach forums, I likely would no longer even be using these forums. God chose to use CrossWise and many others on this forum to help in guiding my back to our Saviour.

Just had to give a small shameless plug to my new Brother CrossWise, and all my new Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

:groupray:


CrossWiseMag is one of God's servants as we should all be in our vocations.

I am glad that he was able to help you out.

[ByzantineDixie]

Praise God that CrossWiseMag was right. :bow:

It was he who has been helping me understand so many things lately. Without him going to the outreach forums, I likely would no longer even be using these forums. God chose to use CrossWise and many others on this forum to help in guiding my back to our Saviour.

Just had to give a small shameless plug to my new Brother CrossWise, and all my new Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

:groupray:
Awesome news, Wolfdragon!!! Welcome to our little piece of CF. We are happy to have to with us! And praise to our Triune God for working through CWM to bring you here! God is GOOD! :clap:

In Him

Rose

[SPALATIN]

Awesome news, Wolfdragon!!! Welcome to our little piece of CF. We are happy to have to with us! And praise to our Triune God for working through CWM to bring you here! God is GOOD! :clap:

In Him

Rose
Wolfdragon,

I think she meant to say that "We are happy to have YOU with us. Rose sometimes gets excited when someone news joins the fold and her fingers get all tied up.

:D

[Rechtgläubig]

LOL Scott. :D


Welcome Wolfdragon.

:wave:

[Wolfdragon]

LOL...... ^_^


I didn't even notice the typo. I am glad I am not the only person to be excited. Thank you all for the welcomes.

:groupray:

[CrossWiseMag]

Welcome, Wolfdragon. :) I haven't had much time to post this week, but it's great to see you in here!!

[Wolfdragon]

Thank you so much CWM. Glad to see you are still around. I know busy. See you around when you have more time. :wave: