Sin Boundaries

[Pray4Isrel]

I have always wondered about the boundaries of sin within Judaism/Messianic Judaism. It seems to me that out of all religions, Judaism is one of few that are actually concerned with sin and conduct regarding it. That is one of the main reasons Messianic Judaism has always appealed to me. I was never interested in the denominations/affiliations that always condone sin and make excuses. MJ has always propelled me to continue striving for purity and constantly convicts me to grow and push past areas in my life that need to be done away with. In other words, we take the Word to heart and strive to live by it even though we are not perfect.

I want to discuss boundaries here because it is often an area of confusion for most people, in general. We know what sin is... we know what is most certainly considered sinful. But what about those "smaller" areas that seem harmless on the outside, but cause a world of sin and pain on the inside? Sins such as gossip, pride, unforgiveness... or even physical sins such as sexual impurity, pornography... and what about things such as smoking, tattoos, drunkenness...

What are your thoughts? I believe that sin is sin. I believe that there are not levels of sin in G-d's eyes. Do you agree/disagree? How do you treat such sins as listed above, and why do you suppose people in most "churches" condone these sins by covering them with Grace as opposed to adhering to what the Word says about these sins? I am constantly grieved by those around me that attend churches and yet are living sinful lifestyles but are not prodded by their congregations to ask for forgiveness and live in accordance to G-d's Law. I am so grateful that I attend a Synagogue that convicts, challenges and encourages me to stay on the straight and narrow... but what about all the others? Does this concern you? How are they supposed to have victory in the above areas when their churches condone homosexuality, abortion etc.? What are your personal thoughts on sin and conduct that is expected of us as Messianics?

[ShirChadash]

I have some thoughts to add when I can later, but I wanted to say:



why do you suppose people in most "churches" condone these sins by covering them with Grace as opposed to adhering to what the Word says about these sins? a very wise pastor of ours from years ago called this "Cheap Grace". And he didn't espouse it either :) . Good topic P4I, I can't wait to read the responses.


:hug:

[P_G]

You are exactly correct Erin

SIN is SIN

Ha'Shem is just - ultimately supremely Just
And his penelty for sin is always the same

DEATH

So He makes a way Y'shuah he sheds his grace and compassion for us.
Loves us so much to pay the penelty.

We are in the grace zone.

I drove to work today and on the highway the speed limit says 55
Now I know I can drive 60 and not get pulled over not ever and in fact
if I keep it under 65 I am in good shape. I am in the grace zone.
I am not obeying the law and infact I am guilty. But there is grace there.

G-d gives us even greater grace. But he will not bless our disobedience.
G-d calls us to righteousness.

Be thou Holy for I am Holy.

Any teaching that sin or sinning is ok and acceptable in any form is heresy.

Much Love Erin

Pastor George :wave:

[ShirChadash]

HAhahaaaa where *I* live, much over the speed limit, 3-4 miles even, will get you a ticket *MAYBE a warning*. The Law is the Law.

[WildCelt]

Heh, this is quite timely. My wife and I were just discussing this topic the other day.

We had quite a discussion. Is it considered sin to disobey man-made laws? If one says "yes," what about civil disobedience? Were Germans who harbored Jews during WWII sinning?

Sin=to miss the mark
Shomer Mitzvot=to hit the mark

So, since obeying the speed limit is not a mitzvah, is it sin?

:scratch:

[P_G]

Heh, this is quite timely. My wife and I were just discussing this topic the other day.

We had quite a discussion. Is it considered sin to disobey man-made laws? If one says "yes," what about civil disobedience? Were Germans who harbored Jews during WWII sinning?

Sin=to miss the mark
Shomer Mitzvot=to hit the mark

So, since obeying the speed limit is not a mitzvah, is it sin?

:scratch:
EXAMPLE EXAMPLE EXAMPLE

I am not a scoff law!
I actually was doing 50

Yes I admit it I am that old man with the hat on in front of you
Driving 5 miles under the limit with his blinker on for the last 10 miles


Sheeesh
;)


Love

Pastor George :wave:

[cleaveun2him]

This is a most interesting discussion and I will look forward to the posts in the future. I belive as others above have posted that we are called to obey the commandments of our L-rd and G-d. There is no gray with Him. He is the Eternal One and worthy of our praise, worship, and obedience. Actually if we would do our best to obey we would all be a lot better off, which our Abba in Heaven is well aware of.

As to civil law, I believe and try to stick to those laws that come from civil authorities as we are admonished to by Paul. Do I sometimes sneak a little above the speed limit...well...occasionally, but using the cruise control helps. Usually, when temted to take a short cut, whether in work or in other cases, I try to remember that I am to be an example to others. Don't be surprised, others are watching and listening. The things you do, and the things you say are by far the best witnesses of what you believe.

[P_G]

I do beleive we are called to obey "just" cival laws
those are the ones that do not violate Torah.

Hence speeding you should not do

But the example of Germany in WWII we would be called to disobey
the cival law because G-ds law says not to murder.

Clink Clink <- my 2 cents


BLessings
Pastor George :wave:

[WildCelt]

I do beleive we are called to obey "just" cival laws
those are the ones that do not violate Torah.

Hence speeding you should not do


In my earlier days when I owned my Z28 I definitely called the speed limit "unjust." :D

[Sephania]

Regarding the traffic laws, these are in place in regard and to help preserve people's life. This is a Jewish concept I believe that above all life should be preserved.

Example, you are not to drive drunk or intoxicated.
Why?

Because you can loose control very easily of your senses, hence your vehicle and cause the death of someone, including yourself.

Good civl law = Preserves life


German law, turn in any Jews - penalty Death.

The only life saved in regard to this law would be your own. Chancing it to save countless Jews, believe me the Lord would watch over you.

Hence breaking Bad civil law = saving lives.

Everything must be held in the light of what Torah teaches, we cannot trust man over G-d to tell us what Truly is right and wrong.

[Pray4Isrel]

Any additional thoughts on this, or is it "Case Closed"? ;)

[ShirChadash]

Well, it seems to me I had some things to add... and I forget now just what ;)


But I'll take a chance, gather my thoughts and come back to add them. My thoughts are not necessarily Jewish, nor even particularly Messianic, maybe.
BB in a bit.

[Christy4Christ]

German law, turn in any Jews - penalty Death.

The only life saved in regard to this law would be your own. Chancing it to save countless Jews, believe me the Lord would watch over you.

Hence breaking Bad civil law = saving lives.



I cannot imagine ANY human being turning one over for sure death! I must comment on this because it appauls me! I really believe I'd have rather died myself during those times than to turn a person over to an authority that would kill them! I agree: BAD CIVIL LAW!

Edited to Add:
Even before I was a practicing Christian I couldn't have done this. I often wonder how people can be so cold, where does this come from? Sorry to deviate from your topic, this has just always baffled me so much!

I will now surrender your topic back into your hands...

as you were :)

[Pray4Isrel]

Come on, People! I still want answers for this!!! :)

[ShirChadash]

:sorry:



:cry: I know I am JUST so helpful (not!)



What was the question again? Can I buy a vowel, Pat? :blush: If I find my brain which is surely mush by now, I will get back to it. I promise!
ARGH!:rolleyes: