Peace - Jeremiah and Psalms

[Crazy Liz]

Hi all! This is my first post here because I'm not sure whether I fit Erwin's definition of a liberal Christian or not. I know a lot of people in my church consider me a liberal if I don't watch what I say pretty carefully. ^_^

Anyway, what do you all think of these two scriptures, and the way they relate to each other?
jeremiah 29:4-9
The response to this seems to be:psalms 137

So God tells the exiles to pray for the welfare of Babylon, but the people pray for Babylon's destruction, and God allows both to be included in sacred scripture. What do you think?

[seebs]

I think God is very, very, very, patient.

On my road trip, I ran into a guy with a kid. The kid was maybe 3. The kid kept trying to run away. Not like he was scared; he was just bored. And the guy would hold the kid, and say "don't run away". So, the kid wanted to sit down, so the guy said "you can go over to that bench, but don't run away".

So the kid takes off like a bullet straight into the unlit copse of trees by the rest area.

His dad still loved him, but it must have been very frustrating. And there are six billion of us, and we are all like that.

[seebs]

p.s.: This forum is intentionally very loose about it's definitions. So far as I can tell, anyone who isn't actively picking fights is allowed to socialize, chatter, or even debate. We even have a fellowship thread for people who don't meet the site's normal standards for Christianity. Check out the forum name; we picked it for a reason.

[Crazy Liz]

I like the forum name. Never noticed it before. Is it new?

I agree about God's patience. :thumbsup:

[seebs]

Yup, newish forum name. We selected it in a poll.

[McCravey]

Just a quick take on them.

On one hand God is telling them that the captivity is because of his will...to pray for their captors and bless them (seems to be Christ like advice)

The people view this in a different manner tho, and hold the unforgiveness in their hearts toward their captors and the others who delighted in their misfortune.

Just a quick glance.

[Toney]

The thrill of bashing Babylonian babies' heads on rocks aside, most of the Israelites, it should be noted, remained behind in Babylon after Cyrus' victory. The remnant that returned to the Promised Land imposed a new brand of Judaism (post-exilic) on those Israelites that had remained behind, as Jeremiah had done.

The theory of election was turned on its head by the stark realisation that God had raised up "His people" the Babylonians as an instrument to punish Israel. God does not seem to suffer Triumphalist Doctrines very well.

There are some interesting lessons from history in that fig tree.

[Crazy Liz]

Just a quick take on them.

On one hand God is telling them that the captivity is because of his will...to pray for their captors and bless them (seems to be Christ like advice)

The people view this in a different manner tho, and hold the unforgiveness in their hearts toward their captors and the others who delighted in their misfortune.

Just a quick glance.

That would pretty much be my take, too.

Having come from a background that is quite fundamentalist, though, finding this psalm among the prayers and praises of Israel, which directly contradicts the way God's prophet told the people to pray, though, does seem to upset a certain view of scripture. I think I've moved beyond that view, but this was jarring. It doesn't surprise me that the people would feel that way and even express those sentiments in a song, but that they would be preserved among their sacred psalms when so obviously contrary to the way their prophets told them to pray is a big surprise.

Although I'm not an inerrantist by any stretch, I do believe the scriptures in some way reflect what God wanted to have preserved for God's followers in later generations. This psalm, with its beautiful imagery in the first few verses, is still one I would not have expected to see preserved.

[McCravey]

That would pretty much be my take, too.

Having come from a background that is quite fundamentalist, though, finding this psalm among the prayers and praises of Israel, which directly contradicts the way God's prophet told the people to pray, though, does seem to upset a certain view of scripture. I think I've moved beyond that view, but this was jarring. It doesn't surprise me that the people would feel that way and even express those sentiments in a song, but that they would be preserved among their sacred psalms when so obviously contrary to the way their prophets told them to pray is a big surprise.

Although I'm not an inerrantist by any stretch, I do believe the scriptures in some way reflect what God wanted to have preserved for God's followers in later generations. This psalm, with its beautiful imagery in the first few verses, is still one I would not have expected to see preserved.

I've come to a slightly modified conclusion recently;

God's word spoken through prophets is of a different caliber than the ones spoken through his people. They are both God's word. The latter is filtered through the feelings, passions, and emotions of His people.

Both can be edifying.

[Toney]

It doesn't surprise me that the people would feel that way and even express those sentiments in a song, but that they would be preserved among their sacred psalms when so obviously contrary to the way their prophets told them to pray is a big surprise.


I don't believe the psalm is about prayer per se, which was not very common in the ancient world. Rather it describes the angst of a people asking the question, "How can we sing God's song in a foreign land?" Even worse, their captors are the very ones who are asking them to sing of Yahweh. This is a psalm about the torment of spiritual dislocation.

The exile set the stage for Ezekiel, a prophet widely considered the father of Judaism. Think of it! -- Yahweh makes an appearance in Tel Aviv, the name of an Israelite settlement in Babylon, in the person of a prophet. Yahweh was not confined to the Promised Land.

The psalm petitions Yahweh to remember his promise: "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you." (Gen 12:3)