The Athanasian Creed

[7]

The Athanasian Creed
(QUICUNQUE VULT)
[Alternate readings in brackets]


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this:
That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity,
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance [Essence].
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate [uncreated], the Son uncreate [uncreated], and the Holy Ghost uncreate [uncreated].
The Father incomprehensible [unlimited], the Son incomprehensible [unlimited], and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible [unlimited].
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles [infinites], nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible [infinite].
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity: to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord,
So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, There be [are] three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another [there is nothing before, or after: nothing greater or less];
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must [let him] thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man;
God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.
Who although he be [is] God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking assumption of the Manhood into God;
One altogether, not by confusion of Substance [Essence], but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell [Hades, spirit-world], rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God [God the Father] Almighty,
From whence [thence] he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully [truly and firmly], he cannot be saved.

[Weasel7711]

The Athanasian Creed
(QUICUNQUE VULT)
[Alternate readings in brackets]


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this:
That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity,
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance [Essence].
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate [uncreated], the Son uncreate [uncreated], and the Holy Ghost uncreate [uncreated].
The Father incomprehensible [unlimited], the Son incomprehensible [unlimited], and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible [unlimited].
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles [infinites], nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible [infinite].
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity: to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord,
So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, There be [are] three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another [there is nothing before, or after: nothing greater or less];
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must [let him] thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man;
God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.
Who although he be [is] God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking assumption of the Manhood into God;
One altogether, not by confusion of Substance [Essence], but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell [Hades, spirit-world], rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God [God the Father] Almighty,
From whence [thence] he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully [truly and firmly], he cannot be saved.
Ah, Tenacious Athanasious

[holo]

I'll have whatever the thief on the cross had, thank you very much.

[SteelDisciple]

The Athanasian Creed
(QUICUNQUE VULT)
[Alternate readings in brackets]


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the Catholic Faith is this:
That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity,
Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance [Essence].
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreate [uncreated], the Son uncreate [uncreated], and the Holy Ghost uncreate [uncreated].
The Father incomprehensible [unlimited], the Son incomprehensible [unlimited], and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible [unlimited].
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles [infinites], nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible [infinite].
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty.
And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.
And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity: to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord,
So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion, to say, There be [are] three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.
And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another [there is nothing before, or after: nothing greater or less];
But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must [let him] thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man;
God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world;
Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.
Who although he be [is] God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ;
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking assumption of the Manhood into God;
One altogether, not by confusion of Substance [Essence], but by unity of Person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell [Hades, spirit-world], rose again the third day from the dead.
He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God [God the Father] Almighty,
From whence [thence] he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully [truly and firmly], he cannot be saved.


The stench of flesh is all over that creed.

[Jacob4707]

The stench of flesh is all over that creed.

Were you to find yourself confronted with rampant heresies and denials of the Trinity and the Incarnation , what would you come up with to set forth the Truth against the heretics' lies?

(I assume you believe in the Trinity and in the Incarnation of God. If so, why? If so, WHAT do you believe about the Trinity? How do you explain to non-believers who and what the members of the Trinity are? How do you explain to non-believers the relationship the members of the Trinity have to each other?)

I say this in defense of the Creed because where the rubber meets the road, the church has to use real language to describe what it does and does not believe. The Creed pretty much covers the bases of what is correct belief about the Trinity and what is not. It may not be as "spiritual" as just quoting Scripture verses, but the Church believed this before the Creed was written, and the Church has believed this since the Creed was written.

[GK]

I have to admit, through bible college and seminary, I haven't seen this before. At first reading, I don't see anything about it contrary to what scripture teaches. It seems it's just an exposition on the common concept of trinity and a statement of the deity of Christ. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's no more superfluous than any other scripturally-based creed.

That said, could you tell us why you posted this, 7? Just to share? Do you have a thought on it? Is it something new you found that you're interested in? You started this train. Where's it headed?

[Counter-Reformer]

I have to admit, through bible college and seminary, I haven't seen this before. At first reading, I don't see anything about it contrary to what scripture teaches. It seems it's just an exposition on the common concept of trinity and a statement of the deity of Christ. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's no more superfluous than any other scripturally-based creed.

That said, could you tell us why you posted this, 7? Just to share? Do you have a thought on it? Is it something new you found that you're interested in? You started this train. Where's it headed?
The Athanasian Creed is a creed purportedly to have been written by Athanasius as a clear understanding of the Blessed and Most Holy Trinity. From What I undertsand is that while Athanasius did not actually write this, it has been deemed as a very Orthodox creed by the Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans. Infact all three on thier liturgical calenders celebrate the Feast of the Athanasian Creed.

[Jacob4707]

I have to admit, through bible college and seminary, I haven't seen this before. At first reading, I don't see anything about it contrary to what scripture teaches. It seems it's just an exposition on the common concept of trinity and a statement of the deity of Christ. I don't see anything wrong with that and it's no more superfluous than any other scripturally-based creed.

That said, could you tell us why you posted this, 7? Just to share? Do you have a thought on it? Is it something new you found that you're interested in? You started this train. Where's it headed?

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (without the Filioque), the so-called Athanasian Creed, and the Declaration of Chalcedon are three foundational historic Christian Creeds that all students of Christian history and theology should be familiar with, IMO. (The sad truth is that many Christians, except those from a liturgical church, are rarely aware of them, and even those in some liturgical churches aren't aware of all of them - e.g., the Orthodox Church recites the Nicene Creed at each liturgy, but not the other two. Some churches use the so-called "Apostles' Creed.") IIRC, Harold O. J. Brown in his book HERESIES focused on these three as being the identifying beliefs of Christianity.

[Philip]

The Athanasian Creed is a creed purportedly to have been written by Athanasius as a clear understanding of the Blessed and Most Holy Trinity. From What I undertsand is that while Athanasius did not actually write this

It is widely accepted that St Athansius the Apostolic did not write the Quicunuqe Vult.


, it has been deemed as a very Orthodox creed by the Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans.

I am not sure if you meant to capitalize the 'O' in Orthodox or not, but must Orthodox theologians consider the QV to be a distinctly Western expression of the Holy Trinity.

[SteelDisciple]

Were you to find yourself confronted with rampant heresies and denials of the Trinity and the Incarnation , what would you come up with to set forth the Truth against the heretics' lies?

(I assume you believe in the Trinity and in the Incarnation of God. If so, why? If so, WHAT do you believe about the Trinity? How do you explain to non-believers who and what the members of the Trinity are? How do you explain to non-believers the relationship the members of the Trinity have to each other?)

I say this in defense of the Creed because where the rubber meets the road, the church has to use real language to describe what it does and does not believe. The Creed pretty much covers the bases of what is correct belief about the Trinity and what is not. It may not be as "spiritual" as just quoting Scripture verses, but the Church believed this before the Creed was written, and the Church has believed this since the Creed was written.


I would start by talking like a normal human being and not using self-righteous language and attitude.

I am less concerned with telling a non-believer about the trinity and put all my concentration into having them BELIEVE God exists in the first place. :) Then work on the other stuff later.

That Creed is FAR from normal language. I already know a large number of non-christians who would NEVER understand that and mistake it for nothing more than drivel.

I prefer to reach a soul through common language and easy understanding. Through compassion and the love of God.

Because...why bother to see if they will believe in the trinity...if they don't even believe in God in the first place? It's almost like quoting scripture to prove God's existance to someone who doesn't even believe the Bible is truth. :)

[SteelDisciple]

BTW...I find the creed insulting for one big reason...

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. "

Before all things? I thought accepting Christ into your heart was the first and foremost thing...not joining a little club.

[GK]

I think you may be reading too much into the word "Catholic." See it in the generic "universal body of Christ" way, not the specific "church group headquartered in Rome" way.

To accept Christ into your heart is to hold the Catholic Faith.

[Jacob4707]

BTW...I find the creed insulting for one big reason...

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. "

Before all things? I thought accepting Christ into your heart was the first and foremost thing...not joining a little club.

There was no church but the "catholic" church back then. Ignatius is the first recorded use of the term, ca. 110 A.D. in one of his epistles:

"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains . Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" ([I]Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

You can read Ignatius's genuine letters (the first 7 ones, I believe) at http://www.ccel.org (http://www.ccel.org/). Go to "Church Fathers" - he's in Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers.

The term "catholic" means "universal," and may be derived from "[according to the] whole" (kata holos) - i.e., where/when the church meets, it is the "catholic" church - i.e., it's a "whole" church, embodying all the aspects and beliefs and functions of the church.

To be in the church was to believe "what has been believed everywhere, always, and by all" - i.e., the catholic faith.

FYI - the term/phrase "accepting Christ into your heart" is not found in the New Testament." Believing the Gospel + Repentance + Baptism + Reception/Sealing of the Holy Spirit were the acts a person underwent or was told to undergo to become saved and a member of the Church, which is Christ's Body.

[Nadiine]

Were you to find yourself confronted with rampant heresies and denials of the Trinity and the Incarnation , what would you come up with to set forth the Truth against the heretics' lies?

(I assume you believe in the Trinity and in the Incarnation of God. If so, why? If so, WHAT do you believe about the Trinity? How do you explain to non-believers who and what the members of the Trinity are? How do you explain to non-believers the relationship the members of the Trinity have to each other?)

I say this in defense of the Creed because where the rubber meets the road, the church has to use real language to describe what it does and does not believe. The Creed pretty much covers the bases of what is correct belief about the Trinity and what is not. It may not be as "spiritual" as just quoting Scripture verses, but the Church believed this before the Creed was written, and the Church has believed this since the Creed was written.

NICE! I sent you a rep. :amen:

If people who believe in the Trinity can't even unite on THIS CREED, THEN I'D SAY ANOTHER ISSUE BEING OVERLOOKED IS DISUNITY of the Body of Christ.

I see ZERO wrong with this creed, and these creeds were necessary due to heresies that were infiltrating the churches to REDEFINE CHRISTIANITY (which liberal theology is seeking to do right now despite the creeds from the past).

I'd much rather have this creed in place, than have their heresies hijack the Christian Faith to do worse damage.

I guess this goes to prove that absolutely no one will find agreement these days and I think that's a shame because God calls us to be one body of Christ with those of the same faith.

This is partly why i'm non denominational.
I SEEK TO UNITE WITH ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMS. IN THE TRUTH OF GOD THRU ESSENTIALS OF THE FAITH while granting mercy & liberty on non divisional doctrines that we CAN divide on.

I just see no problem with this creed and glad it was written to define the Christian faith as it was under threat.

[*Starlight*]

For me, that creed contradicts itself.... I mean, you can't have this:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

and this:

At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies
And shall give account for their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
at the same time!

Or maybe I understand it in the wrong way? :confused:

[Stan53]

Well I have no problem with the creed. At first it sort of catches you off balance but upon further thought I find myself no being able to critisise it much.

[Nadiine]

For me, that creed contradicts itself.... I mean, you can't have this:

and this:
at the same time!

Or maybe I understand it in the wrong way?

This would be a good place to make a general observation about the Bible we have.


The Bible claims (of itself) that it is "God Breathed", you can see here that when MAN WRITES A STATEMENT ABOUT GOD (outside those God directly used to relay His Words to man), that he's fallible.


This Creed is not "God breathed" - nor claims to be.
& I don't suggest that this Creed is a work of "spiritual perfection", but they were addressing heretics that were trying to "Hijack the Christian Faith" as best they could and had something in mind specifically relating to those particular falsities being brought in by them.


It wasn't meant to be any "addition to the Bible" or anything. It is what it is to counter the problem of their day (and I submit that WE HAVE THIS VERY PROBLEM RUNNING RAMPANT IN CHRISTENDOM TODAY EVEN WITH THESE EARLY CREEDS IN EXISTANCE).
:sigh: :sick: :mad: :help:

But, this just goes to show me how much more I can count on my Bible to relay the WHOLE truth of God as only God can perfectly relay it [thru flawed humanity] -
and why we shouldn't tamper with its words.


Prov. 30:5-6 Every Word of God is Pure;... Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. :bow: