Spiritual fruit verses politics

HopeSings · May 3, 2024

Political dissension, division, contention, strife, factions, worries, fears, suspicions, conspiracies, slander, rebellion, gossip, cursing, bitterness, unforgiveness, discontent and complaints are not good according to the holy spirit. None of these things are spiritual fruit from God

Fantine · May 4, 2024

You are right in that legislators should work together for the common good.
We can help in this regard by voting for public servants who are there to represent their constituents and get things done.
Usually compromise is necessary.
God wants us to do good and be good citizens. If politics is a den of hatred, you can change that. You find the troublemakers and vote them out the same way you'd cultivate a garden.

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

Fantine said:
You are right in that legislators should work together for the common good.
We can help in this regard by voting for public servants who are there to represent their constituents and get things done.
Usually compromise is necessary.
God wants us to do good and be good citizens. If politics is a den of hatred, you can change that. You find the troublemakers and vote them out the same way you'd cultivate a garden.

It will never happen in my opinion. God has no fellowship with darkness

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

Today hatred is defined as being opposed to whatever is immoral.

Whether it's abortion, same-sex marriage, transgender ideology or whatever comes next,
you will be labeled as a hater for opposing these things.

Jesus told us that we would be hated because of His name. It's taking place in our society
today.

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
Today hatred is defined as being opposed to whatever is immoral.

Whether it's abortion, same-sex marriage, transgender ideology or whatever comes next,
you will be labeled as a hater for opposing these things.

Jesus told us that we would be hated because of His name. It's taking place in our society
today.

The world does what it wants but we stay separate from them. We don't Lord over them.

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
The world does what it wants but we stay separate from them. We don't Lord over them.

Supporting truth doesn't mean remaining silent. We cannot affirm immoral policies by remaining silent.

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
Supporting truth doesn't mean remaining silent. We cannot affirm immoral policies by remaining silent.

The sinners will still be sinners. You can't pass laws and make them obey God. The government isn't the church and we shouldn't turn it into one

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
Supporting truth doesn't mean remaining silent. We cannot affirm immoral policies by remaining silent.

Psalms 1:
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the [a]ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he [b]meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the [c]rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
The sinners will still be sinners. You can't pass laws and make them obey God. The government isn't the church and we shouldn't turn it into one

So, there should be no laws against murder, rape, theft or whatever according to you. Afterall, we should just let the
sinners who follow these things be left alone.

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
So, there should be no laws against murder, rape, theft or whatever according to you. Afterall, we should just let the
sinners who follow these things be left alone.

Rome makes its own laws and God judges them

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
Psalms 1:
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the [a]ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he [b]meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the [c]rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

King David, who is most likely the author of the Psalms, followed the Ten Commandments as given by
God.

They did not allow murder, nor even adultery to go unpunished.

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
Rome makes its own laws and God judges them

Should our society follow God's laws or not?

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
King David, who is most likely the author of the Psalms, followed the Ten Commandments as given by
God.

They did not allow murder, nor even adultery to go unpunished.

David isn't American or Roman. America is not the church or spiritual Israel

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

JimR-OCDS said:
Should our society follow God's laws or not?

How can you force people to obey God? If you make sexual immorality illegal they will still sin anyway. No politician looks like Paul or the apostles. The apostles dressed in rags and were poor. They didn't have wealth like politicians do.

oikonomia · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
Political dissension, division, contention, strife, factions, worries, fears, suspicions, conspiracies, slander, rebellion, gossip, cursing, bitterness, unforgiveness, discontent and complaints are not good according to the holy spirit. None of these things are spiritual fruit from God

Amen to this.

Paul tells us what is "good and acceptable" to God also. That is prayer and petition for all who are in government.
Often this is needed because they will not pray for themselves.

Many things Christian might do are not that "good and acceptable" to our Savior God. This admonition of an Christian apostle under
the reign of Emperor Nero, of all rulers, is impressive.

Here Paul expresses (along with the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians) the proper Christian attitude toward government.

I exhort therefore, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men;
On behalf of kings and all who are in high position, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all godliness and gravity.
This is good and acceptable in the sight of our Savior God, (1 Tim. 2:1-3)

One day the Lord will touch many of our consciences - something like this -
"But if you had prayed and made petition for these authorities it would have been more profitable than godless strife and bitter gossips."

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

oikonomia said:
Amen to this.

Paul tells us what is "good and acceptable" to God also. That is prayer and petition for all who are in government.
Often this is needed because they will not pray for themselves.

Many things Christian might do are not that "good and acceptable" to our Savior God. This admonition of an Christian apostle under
the reign of Emperor Nero, of all rulers, is impressive.

Here Paul expresses (along with the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians) the proper Christian attitude toward government.

I exhort therefore, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men;
On behalf of kings and all who are in high position, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all godliness and gravity.
This is good and acceptable in the sight of our Savior God, (1 Tim. 2:1-3)

One day the Lord will touch many of our consciences - something like this -
"But if you had prayed and made petition for these authorities it would have been more profitable than godless strife and bitter gossips."

Yes. Paul teaches is to be separate from the world and its ways including politics

oikonomia · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
Yes. Paul teaches is to be separate from the world and its ways including politics

He knew that God's kingdom and government were coming.
His teaching there is not passive. It is how we can cooperate to hasten that day -
the coming of "the Desire of the nations" (Haggai 2:7) the Lord Jesus as King of Kings.

Christ is the One all the nations really desire.
I love also Paul's encouragement of the inevitable manifestation of the One Sovereign.

. . . until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Which in its own times the blessed and only Sovereign will show, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,
Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor can see, to whom be honor and eternal might. Amen. (1 Tim. 6:13b-16 RcV)

HopeSings · May 4, 2024

oikonomia said:
He knew that God's kingdom and government were coming.
His teaching there is not passive. It is how we can cooperate to hasten that day -
the coming of "the Desire of the nations" (Haggai 2:7) the Lord Jesus as King of Kings.

Christ is the One all the nations really desire.
I love also Paul's encouragement of the inevitable manistation of the One Sovereign.

. . . until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Which in its own times the blessed and only Sovereign will show, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords,
Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor can see, to whom be honor and eternal might. Amen. (1 Tim. 6:13b-16 RcV)

I am a nation. Isaiah 60:22. I rule my own land or rule myself

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
David isn't American or Roman. America is not the church or spiritual Israel

But the United States was founded on Biblical teachings, especially the Book of Exodus.

JimR-OCDS · May 4, 2024

HopeSings said:
How can you force people to obey God? If you make sexual immorality illegal they will still sin anyway. No politician looks like Paul or the apostles. The apostles dressed in rags and were poor. They didn't have wealth like politicians do.

So, we can't make people stop murdering and stealing, because it's two of God's laws. They'll just do it anyway
so let them do as they wish?

Spiritual fruit verses politics

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