Yet Again, At Planet Fitness...

[rturner76]

May I repeat myself? No one is saying that private stalls are a bad thing. Somehow you have a brain that's locked up. You have an idea in your head and you can't seem to let it go.

I do have an idea in my head that I can't let go of which is privacy is better.

In fact I bet that people on this board would appreciate a gym that had such a thing. I know I would. That being said though the question is, is this NECESSARY and should it be forced upon businesses to do so. It's NOT a necessity and it should NOT be forced upon businesses to do so. If they want to great. If they don't that's great too.

I never said there should be any new laws passed to force businesses to provide private stalls or toilets. In fact if you go back through my posts you will not see that I have said I support governmental mandates on providing privacy. What I HAVE said over and over is that it's better for business. I have said things like "vote with your wallet." If you don't like the situation at your gym you or anyone is free to find a gym that meets your needs.

Are you calling for governmental mandates for private stalls in all public accomodations and private businesses and all governmental buildings?

Check my posts. I NEVER said that, I said businesses that cater to privacy in this day and age will likely be more successful. I guess what I may be confused about (and possibly have misinterpreted) is the conservative view we should not change anything at all ever. In fairness that is the definition of conservative. I interpreted your posts to mean that we should force trans women to use men's facilities and it is more important to force people into a space they are not comfortable with.

Just recognize that men don't belong in a woman's space either in a private stall with them or a large locker room without private stalls.

I do recognize that women shouldn't be forced to shower next to someone with a penis. I also advocate to make it a non-issue by providing privacy. Problem solved.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think it's really that complicated. All they seemed to need was a half a dozen private shower stalls in order to meet the demand at any given time.

Enough for 6 people? Do you think the average gym accommodates 6 people?

Well you're already advocating for private toilets.

Why would we waste space and make them separate from the showers and lockers?

I hope you can enlighten me as how it is more feasible to check people's genitals

First....why don't you enlighten me about why folks like yourself  always bring up some goofy scenario about checking genitalia? I certainly didn't mention it.

Surely you understand that a sign saying "Women only" would be enough and if some man wanders into the women's room claiming to be a woman you just have that person removed by staff or police.

 

[rturner76]

Okay. I showered with boys in gym class all through highschool and college. I never demanded the school give me a private shower and I never demand d to shower with the girls. So your thoughts don't counyer anything I said.

I did too and it was fine. Some people don't want to.

Okay that's good. That's the first time you actually clarified that you aren't calling for any laws. Usually and advocacy involves that. If I advocate for the protection of endangered species that generally means I want laws that protect endangered species. If I advocate for clean air I usually want laws to require a reduction in air pollution.

In your advocacy are you going around to your business and advocating there or just on line in a forum?

Mostly just on forums to be honest. I'm not going to tell someone how to run their business but I will express my opinion when the subject arises.

And you are continuing to gaslight us in regards to this issue. Cause I didn't t recall a SINGLE person in this board saying they "want to shower in the midst of a dozen boys". And it's quite disgusting to suggest that we see what other boys have. What's wrong with you saying stuff like that?

The resistance comes for our concerns that you are calling for a mandate. Now that we know your not you are free to advocate all you want.

And to be clear again. I'd be fine if a business, school or whatever decides to create those things in their business. I used one while we were visiting Portland last year. We were in a store that had all private bathrooms. We were perfectly fine with that.
And I bw fine with that if my gym dis the same thing with private rooms with showers toilets etc. But if my cost went up too much to pay for that, I guess I'd go somewhere that didnt have that. I can afford only so much.

The reason I said that people seem to want to shower with the other boys is because the issue is privacy and it seems (you guys) seem to think that it's better to discriminate against trans women rather than just provide them with privacy.

As we've been saying all along. It's not necessary. It's a luxury. But you are free to advocate for it and if you can convince a business.or gym to do it then good for you.

But I'm still skeptical of your motivations here. I think all your advocacy for these private spaces solely related to transgender people. I noticed you didn't claim to be advocating for this before the trans issues became a real thing.

But I do note that you are not for creating laws to require it. So I don't know if we have much more to talk about on this. Unless.you keep making false and inflammatory claims.

I think it's more than a luxury. It's common decency. Why I harp on conservatives preferring to shower with the other boys is this attitude that because we grew up doing it, it's fine for everybody but times change, people's needs change and we should change with the times instead of holding on to the past.

But yes, I am specifically thinking of trans women because it seems that it what the conservative community would like to shove back into the closet like the old days. If someone truly identifies as a woman and they have altered their body to reflect that I think they shouldn't be required to use the public men's shower. Like we've said all along, they can vote with their wallets (or purses) and go to a place where they do provide privacy. My personal opinion is that if they still have a penis, they shouldn't be in the men's or the women's but the family restroom.

 

[rturner76]

So your whole private shower thing is not really about privacy after all. It IS about transgenders. Just as I thought.

I'd also like a single quote from anyone on this board that said we have to check everyone's genitals before they go in. Just one. If you you can't then is oblivious your imagination has gotten out of control if you think that's what is needed or wanted.

Then how can we determine who has the correct genitalia in their chosen restroom/shower? Yes, the trans issue is why this thread was made. It's because conservatives are afraid a trans person will choose the improper restroom. Otherwise just having a men's or women's restroom is a non-issue. It only becomes an issue for conservatives when the trans community is brought into the equation.

 

[BCP1928]

Enough for 6 people? Do you think the average gym accommodates 6 people?

Well you're already advocating for private toilets.

Why would we waste space and make them separate from the showers and lockers?




First....why don't you enlighten me about why folks like yourself  always bring up some goofy scenario about checking genitalia? I certainly didn't mention it.

Surely you understand that a sign saying "Women only" would be enough and if some man wanders into the women's room claiming to be a woman you just have that person removed by staff or police.

How do you know it's a man?

 

[rturner76]

Enough for 6 people? Do you think the average gym accommodates 6 people?

Well you're already advocating for private toilets.

Why would we waste space and make them separate from the showers and lockers?

In EVERY gym I have been to, the showers are in a different area than the toilets and the lockers are in another area. It's not rocket science

Surely you understand that a sign saying "Women only" would be enough and if some man wanders into the women's room claiming to be a woman you just have that person removed by staff or police.

Then what's the problem?

First....why don't you enlighten me about why folks like yourself  always bring up some goofy scenario about checking genitalia? I certainly didn't mention it.

How else would we confirm the person is in the correct restroom? Some men look like women and some women look like men whether by nature or on purpose. You conservatives are the ones who start all of these threads about what restroom people are using so it makes me wonder if we are going to confirm women are women and men are men, how else can we be certain? I know it's not about "men" using the ladies, it's about trans people.

 

[BCP1928]

Nobody cares about women using the men’s bathroom. It’s not a safety issue

I know of a men's room or two where a woman wouldn't be safe. Or do you mean that the men would be safe so it's no problem?

 

[RileyG]

Of course you don't have to accept everything they do. But don't try to claim "They are just pretending" is respectful of an actual medical condition they suffer from. Nor is it respectful to assume a greater understanding of their issue then they posses.


The sole point of my example was to demonstrate that no one can force another accept an ideology. As long as you agree on that point there is no need to expound upon it further.

I understand what you are saying, yes. But in my opinion, their identity still doesn’t change their biology.

 

[Belk]

I understand what you are saying, yes. But in my opinion, their identity still doesn’t change their biology.

Yes. That is exactly the issue they suffer from. That is what causes their discomfort.

 

[BPPLEE]

I know of a men's room or two where a woman wouldn't be safe. Or do you mean that the men would be safe so it's no problem?

Who is forcing women to use the men’s bathroom? A woman who does this may not be safe but how do you protect people from themselves?
There is no law against stupidity.

 

[RileyG]

Yes. That is exactly the issue they suffer from. That is what causes their discomfort.

Yes, and it must be further researched.

 

[BCP1928]

Who is forcing women to use the men’s bathroom? A woman who does this may not be safe but how do you protect people from themselves?
There is no law against stupidity.

I just didn't understand what you meant by a safety issue.

 

[BPPLEE]

I just didn't understand what you meant by a safety issue.

A woman who goes in a men’s restroom doesn’t pose a threat in most cases

 

[Ceallaigh]

If I was to make a generalization about "all women" it would be that they like to do their business in private from both men and other women. That, I know, is true of many men as well, who won't use a urinal if there are other men using them. but go to a stall instead.

Would a cosmetically transitioned woman who still had female genitalia but looked like a man cause the same discomfort?

Probably. But that's not everyone else's burden to deal with. The trans person should make his/her own accommodations as they already have been doing. The argument nowadays is one of privilege where anyone is supposed to get to do whatever they want to.

 

[Belk]

Yes, and it must be further researched.

On that we are agreed. Have a great day RileyG.

 

[BPPLEE]

Probably. But that's not everyone else's burden to deal with. The trans person should make his/her own accommodations as they already have been doing. The argument nowadays is one of privilege where anyone is supposed to get to do whatever they want to.

Women always go to the bathroom in pairs when they have the option.

 

[Ceallaigh]

We'll get to those "christian values" in a moment, but it is still open if you think the US society was based on Christian values at some point in the past (that they are now being pushed out). If you do think so, when was that time?


This particular sequence started with a blind post (no liked response) about 200 posts in:



@BCP1928 engaged in reply and first mentioned "Western Christian culture/civilization" to which you eventually (after the next quoted post) challenged to name a better civilization or culture. (To which I replied with the Secular equivalent).



This post now brings up a different question based on the themes of this thread and given that it was made in this thread:

Which "Western Christian cultural convention" do you think we (that is the not you and your allies on this thread) are trying to git rid of? Which one of these is "Western Christian"?

1. Treating transpeople like dirt, or
2. Gendered restrooms and locker rooms.

Or is it something else?

Respecting that women and girls don't want men imitating them and invading their spaces.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Respecting that women and girls don't want men imitating them and invading their spaces.

I have no idea how this classifies as "Christian".

 

[Ceallaigh]

I have no idea how this classifies as "Christian".

It classifies as being on topic.

 

[RileyG]

On that we are agreed. Have a great day RileyG.

Thank you! You too