Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
Why is there suffering if God is real?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="dzheremi" data-source="post: 77646504" data-attributes="member: 357536"><p>That's only one way to look at the fall, however. I think that kind of interpretation tends to be what predominates in western Christianity, but in the Christian east (churches like the Coptic Orthodox Church in Egypt, the Syriac Orthodox Church in Iraq/Syria/Turkey/India, the various Greco-Arab and Greco-Slavic churches in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, etc.), the fall tends to be seen more in terms of an ancestral sin that has an effect on the human race going forward, without anyone alive since then being <em>personally</em> guilty for anything. In fact, there is a kind of interpretative tradition that can be found to some degree in both the East and the West (but seems to be more prominent in the East) that says that just as Jesus is the restoration of Adam (being the archetypal/primordial "first man", "Adam" here is taken as a synonym or placeholder for all of mankind), His mother the Theotokos St. Mary can be likewise seen as the restoration of Eve, as the Theotokos listens to God when He tells her through His archangel that she will bare the Son of God, whereas Eve listened to the Serpent instead of listening to God's prohibition in the Garden. This is why there are certain paraliturgical songs in the Coptic Orthodox tradition that are dedicated to St. Mary that have this theme (e.g., "You did not listen to the serpent") which might otherwise seem strange or obscure, given the distance in time between our first parents and the mother of God St. Mary.</p><p></p><p>So if it is about "fairness" (which I don't believe it is, but I'll go with it for the sake of finishing up this point), then we could say that the "unfairness" ended with the coming of Jesus Christ our God, Who is incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary. In this, all is restored to "fairness", as the One Whom she bore has elevated and transformed all of humanity, just as she (allegorically!) transformed the image of Eve as the primordial mother from a source of sin and defilement of our race to being perfectly restored and made holy by God, just as she herself was so as to be made a suitable place of rest for His beloved Son. This is, e.g., what is behind the refrain of the Thursday hymn for the Midnight Praises of Kiahk (the month of the Coptic calendar that is especially dedicated to singing praises to St. Mary as the Theotokos) known in English as "The Burning Bush": <strong><em>"Blessed is the pride of the human race"</em></strong> (referring, understandably in this context, to St. Mary herself).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dzheremi, post: 77646504, member: 357536"] That's only one way to look at the fall, however. I think that kind of interpretation tends to be what predominates in western Christianity, but in the Christian east (churches like the Coptic Orthodox Church in Egypt, the Syriac Orthodox Church in Iraq/Syria/Turkey/India, the various Greco-Arab and Greco-Slavic churches in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, etc.), the fall tends to be seen more in terms of an ancestral sin that has an effect on the human race going forward, without anyone alive since then being [I]personally[/I] guilty for anything. In fact, there is a kind of interpretative tradition that can be found to some degree in both the East and the West (but seems to be more prominent in the East) that says that just as Jesus is the restoration of Adam (being the archetypal/primordial "first man", "Adam" here is taken as a synonym or placeholder for all of mankind), His mother the Theotokos St. Mary can be likewise seen as the restoration of Eve, as the Theotokos listens to God when He tells her through His archangel that she will bare the Son of God, whereas Eve listened to the Serpent instead of listening to God's prohibition in the Garden. This is why there are certain paraliturgical songs in the Coptic Orthodox tradition that are dedicated to St. Mary that have this theme (e.g., "You did not listen to the serpent") which might otherwise seem strange or obscure, given the distance in time between our first parents and the mother of God St. Mary. So if it is about "fairness" (which I don't believe it is, but I'll go with it for the sake of finishing up this point), then we could say that the "unfairness" ended with the coming of Jesus Christ our God, Who is incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary. In this, all is restored to "fairness", as the One Whom she bore has elevated and transformed all of humanity, just as she (allegorically!) transformed the image of Eve as the primordial mother from a source of sin and defilement of our race to being perfectly restored and made holy by God, just as she herself was so as to be made a suitable place of rest for His beloved Son. This is, e.g., what is behind the refrain of the Thursday hymn for the Midnight Praises of Kiahk (the month of the Coptic calendar that is especially dedicated to singing praises to St. Mary as the Theotokos) known in English as "The Burning Bush": [B][I]"Blessed is the pride of the human race"[/I][/B] (referring, understandably in this context, to St. Mary herself). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Exploring Christianity
Why is there suffering if God is real?
Top
Bottom