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"The Sad Truth Of Tolkien Spirituality"
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<blockquote data-quote="jamiec" data-source="post: 76366960" data-attributes="member: 429609"><p>One of the leading features of LOTR, is that it takes place in a world with a vast weight and length of history behind it. The films do not succeed in conveying much of this atmosphere. Elrond is about 6,500 years old, and Galadriel is much older. But if one did not know the contents of the books, of LOTR & the Sil, one would not know either of these things.</p><p></p><p>The events covered in the films come at a very late stage in the history of the invented world, very close to the end of that invented history. And that too is not obvious unless one is familiar with the books.</p><p></p><p>It is the depth, detail, and consistency of the tale, that are, I think, a major source of the power of LOTR. There is world-building, with those qualities, not simply for the story being told in LOTR, but for the "feigned history/geography/ languages/etc." that lead up to the events, places, languages, etc., in LOTR. So the mountains, statues, armies, weapons, caves, rivers, forests, languages, etc., have the consistency of reality to an unusual degree. In many authors, their inventions have little or no depth - especially if they are not Main Characters. The same lack of depth characterises many of the off-stage events in such books. In LOTR, by contrast, even minor characters have depth. When, for instance, Aragorn refers to Beren & Luthien, he is talking about two people in the ancient past of that world, whose story of great personal relevance to him (& not only because they are his direct ancestors, at a remove of about 60 generations & 6,500 years). All of the references are references to things real in that feigned world, things with histories in that world. The Ring is called Isildur's Bane, because that is exactly what it was: the feigned history has a lot to say about Isildur (a more recent ancestor of Aragorn, separated from him by a mere 38 generations & 3,000 years).</p><p></p><p>As for occultism, just what do people mean when they say there is occultism in LOTR ? A good comment on that, may be this exchange from the book:</p><p></p><p>"The air was very still, and the dell was dark, and the Elf-lady beside him was tall and pale. 'What shall we look for, and what shall we see? ' asked Frodo, filled with awe.</p><p></p><p>`Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,' she answered, `and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable than things which we wish to behold. What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, things that yet may be. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look? '</p><p></p><p>Frodo did not answer.</p><p></p><p>`And you? ' she said, turning to Sam. '<strong>For this</strong> <strong>is what your folk would call magic</strong>, <strong>I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to</strong> <strong>use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy</strong>. <strong>But this</strong>, <strong>if</strong> <strong>you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic</strong>? '</p><p></p><p>'I did,' said Sam, trembling a little between fear and curiosity. `I'll have a peep, Lady, if you're willing.'</p><p></p><p>`And I'd not mind a glimpse of what's going on at home,' he said in an aside to Frodo. 'It seems a terrible long time that I've been away. But there, like as not I'll only see the stars, or something that I won't understand.'</p><p></p><p>'Like as not,' said the Lady with a gentle laugh. `But come, you shall look and see what you may. Do not touch the water!'"</p><p></p><p>- from: The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, chapter 7, The Mirror of Galadriel.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jamiec, post: 76366960, member: 429609"] One of the leading features of LOTR, is that it takes place in a world with a vast weight and length of history behind it. The films do not succeed in conveying much of this atmosphere. Elrond is about 6,500 years old, and Galadriel is much older. But if one did not know the contents of the books, of LOTR & the Sil, one would not know either of these things. The events covered in the films come at a very late stage in the history of the invented world, very close to the end of that invented history. And that too is not obvious unless one is familiar with the books. It is the depth, detail, and consistency of the tale, that are, I think, a major source of the power of LOTR. There is world-building, with those qualities, not simply for the story being told in LOTR, but for the "feigned history/geography/ languages/etc." that lead up to the events, places, languages, etc., in LOTR. So the mountains, statues, armies, weapons, caves, rivers, forests, languages, etc., have the consistency of reality to an unusual degree. In many authors, their inventions have little or no depth - especially if they are not Main Characters. The same lack of depth characterises many of the off-stage events in such books. In LOTR, by contrast, even minor characters have depth. When, for instance, Aragorn refers to Beren & Luthien, he is talking about two people in the ancient past of that world, whose story of great personal relevance to him (& not only because they are his direct ancestors, at a remove of about 60 generations & 6,500 years). All of the references are references to things real in that feigned world, things with histories in that world. The Ring is called Isildur's Bane, because that is exactly what it was: the feigned history has a lot to say about Isildur (a more recent ancestor of Aragorn, separated from him by a mere 38 generations & 3,000 years). As for occultism, just what do people mean when they say there is occultism in LOTR ? A good comment on that, may be this exchange from the book: "The air was very still, and the dell was dark, and the Elf-lady beside him was tall and pale. 'What shall we look for, and what shall we see? ' asked Frodo, filled with awe. `Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal,' she answered, `and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable than things which we wish to behold. What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, things that yet may be. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look? ' Frodo did not answer. `And you? ' she said, turning to Sam. '[B]For this[/B] [B]is what your folk would call magic[/B], [B]I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to[/B] [B]use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy[/B]. [B]But this[/B], [B]if[/B] [B]you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic[/B]? ' 'I did,' said Sam, trembling a little between fear and curiosity. `I'll have a peep, Lady, if you're willing.' `And I'd not mind a glimpse of what's going on at home,' he said in an aside to Frodo. 'It seems a terrible long time that I've been away. But there, like as not I'll only see the stars, or something that I won't understand.' 'Like as not,' said the Lady with a gentle laugh. `But come, you shall look and see what you may. Do not touch the water!'" - from: The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, chapter 7, The Mirror of Galadriel. [/QUOTE]
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