Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Leisure and Society
Hobbies, Interests & Entertainment
Science Fiction & Fantasy
"The Sad Truth Of Tolkien Spirituality"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="dms1972" data-source="post: 75256095" data-attributes="member: 325736"><p>I would need to read the article more thorougly, but I tried to get the gist of his concerns in a quick perusal. I don't object to a critical article of this sort if it attempts an intelligent assessment, and is well argued, and in this case its clearly not a Jack Chick polemic. I looked at his desertation on it which runs to 400+ pages, but I doubt very much I would have time to study that in any detail, nevertheless i might look at it again.</p><p></p><p>He mentions the history of Middle Earth being a "feigned history", which I suppose what Tolkien meant by that was "fictional history". He says this leads to the "thematisation of its veracity", but I am not sure whether I know what he means and whether that really is the reason for groups getting into Tolkien's world more seriously. In the time Tolkien wrote, a story was pretty much taken as that, there was a sort of prejudice (which still exists) about fairy stories, that they belonged in the nursery and he sought to challenge that in some of his essays - however he didn't look favorably on all fairy stories as being equal in merit. He did seem to think the realm of Faerie was "more real". So maybe some misunderstanding of what he meant by that has slipped in.</p><p></p><p>People who had never read his works, did start to ask at times, what or where is Middle Earth supposed to be? And that question might arise for the first time reader or someone who has a friend who is into it and talking about it.</p><p></p><p>We would also have to understand Tolkien's purposes in writing his Middle Earth stories, for instance are they for edification of the reader, to help him discern good from evil? In fact Tolkien thought sub-creation was part of his christian worship. He been inventing Elfin languages at first, and wanted to incorporate them into a story.</p><p></p><p>To locate the source of the problem with Tolkien's mythology is to ignore the later sesmic shifts in culture and society that came about for other reasons and led to the phenomenon the writer is concerned about. That is more difficult to analyse. I read the Hobbit and LOTR in my twenties. But I was earlier interested in them through their cultural spinoffs like the early computer games based on the Hobbit and LOTR.</p><p></p><p>Another thing in reference specifically to <em>Gnosticism</em> rather than Paganism. This was a philosophical movement that chiefly existed parasitically as it were on other host traditions and religions and canons, not having any canon as such of its own. Gnosticism equally has made use of Homer for its own purposes and re-signified that. Something similiar happens in the more recent Disney, where stories like Aladdin are re-invented with a new set of values, in a shift away from the moral of the original tales.</p><p></p><p>So I don't think Tolkien's mythology is Gnostic. The author of the article is trying to locate something in Tolkien's stories that makes them more likely than others to be subverted, I think he misplaces the locus of the problem however, and that it is less something about Tolkien and his Middle Earth, and more about the nature of gnosticism and its need for a host.</p><p></p><p>It's rather unlikely that many people take it so far, that comes more from the role-playing culture which might re-inforce such beliefs in a few. I don't know that many Tolkien fans could be termed religious about it except in a very loose sense, rather much of it is counter-cultural.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dms1972, post: 75256095, member: 325736"] I would need to read the article more thorougly, but I tried to get the gist of his concerns in a quick perusal. I don't object to a critical article of this sort if it attempts an intelligent assessment, and is well argued, and in this case its clearly not a Jack Chick polemic. I looked at his desertation on it which runs to 400+ pages, but I doubt very much I would have time to study that in any detail, nevertheless i might look at it again. He mentions the history of Middle Earth being a "feigned history", which I suppose what Tolkien meant by that was "fictional history". He says this leads to the "thematisation of its veracity", but I am not sure whether I know what he means and whether that really is the reason for groups getting into Tolkien's world more seriously. In the time Tolkien wrote, a story was pretty much taken as that, there was a sort of prejudice (which still exists) about fairy stories, that they belonged in the nursery and he sought to challenge that in some of his essays - however he didn't look favorably on all fairy stories as being equal in merit. He did seem to think the realm of Faerie was "more real". So maybe some misunderstanding of what he meant by that has slipped in. People who had never read his works, did start to ask at times, what or where is Middle Earth supposed to be? And that question might arise for the first time reader or someone who has a friend who is into it and talking about it. We would also have to understand Tolkien's purposes in writing his Middle Earth stories, for instance are they for edification of the reader, to help him discern good from evil? In fact Tolkien thought sub-creation was part of his christian worship. He been inventing Elfin languages at first, and wanted to incorporate them into a story. To locate the source of the problem with Tolkien's mythology is to ignore the later sesmic shifts in culture and society that came about for other reasons and led to the phenomenon the writer is concerned about. That is more difficult to analyse. I read the Hobbit and LOTR in my twenties. But I was earlier interested in them through their cultural spinoffs like the early computer games based on the Hobbit and LOTR. Another thing in reference specifically to [I]Gnosticism[/I] rather than Paganism. This was a philosophical movement that chiefly existed parasitically as it were on other host traditions and religions and canons, not having any canon as such of its own. Gnosticism equally has made use of Homer for its own purposes and re-signified that. Something similiar happens in the more recent Disney, where stories like Aladdin are re-invented with a new set of values, in a shift away from the moral of the original tales. So I don't think Tolkien's mythology is Gnostic. The author of the article is trying to locate something in Tolkien's stories that makes them more likely than others to be subverted, I think he misplaces the locus of the problem however, and that it is less something about Tolkien and his Middle Earth, and more about the nature of gnosticism and its need for a host. It's rather unlikely that many people take it so far, that comes more from the role-playing culture which might re-inforce such beliefs in a few. I don't know that many Tolkien fans could be termed religious about it except in a very loose sense, rather much of it is counter-cultural. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Leisure and Society
Hobbies, Interests & Entertainment
Science Fiction & Fantasy
"The Sad Truth Of Tolkien Spirituality"
Top
Bottom