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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77663096" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p><a href="https://www.unicef.org/georgia/media/1191/file/Social%20Norms%20Analysis.pdf" target="_blank">I</a> am talking about beliefs in actual violent and abusive control and not the more ambiguious beliefs which don't spell out in its language that its necessarily violent and abusive controlling. Thats what we need to work out through the facts and science. </p><p></p><p>We don't need to do that for a belief in violent and abusive controlling as it speaks for itself regardless of the determination of what is classed as 'violent and abusive controlling' because whatever it is the intension is to use whatever methods to violently and abusively control someone. Its like a belief that murder is good' </p><p></p><p>It doesn't matter in what social context you want to put it the belief is abusive because the very definition of the language and word usage is about destruction and unjustified killing in the word 'Murder'. Just like in the words 'violent and abusive controlling'. Its a type of controling which is violent and abusive' to the victim. </p><p></p><p>But the other attitudes and beliefs in relation to social norms, they are not so clear and we need to carefully investigate how they actually unfold and work in society. Some are more obvious than others. Like the belief in a strict and rigid upbringing may lean more towards the abusive side its not necessarily completely the case and there are some benefits in having some strictness and rigidity of roles in this regard. So we have to do some contextual investigation to clarify otherwise we can end up promoting unhealthy and negative beliefs themselves.</p><p></p><p>Whereas other beliefs can be taken either way and can be both healthy and positive or unhealthy, negative and destructful. Which means we need to be even more vigelant in ensuring we don't assume these beliefs are automatically abusive to hold. </p><p></p><p>That is why I think as your link says there needs to be a frank and honest discussion with all cards on the table, no view cancelled as to what exactly are the facts around which beliefs and attitudes are best to hold as a society. The problem is with these matters of rights is that its easy for people to promote ideology rather than facts and reality as its such a personal and emotive issue. </p><p></p><p>So the idea that the parents should be at the top of the hierarchy of control within a family setup over the children rather than the child being at the top over the parents is abusive. </p><p></p><p>The idea that the chain of command where control and power over people increases towards the top of the hierarchy of command is abusive. </p><p></p><p>The idea that social policy and laws which allow the government and its agencccies to have power over and control the behaviours of society, of certain sectors of society is abusive. </p><p></p><p>The idea that people as a collective can force someone to conform to behaviour they believe is appropriate is inherently abusive. </p><p></p><p>Life provides the justification for violence anywhere. The idea of checks and balances within these societal hierarchies is a recognition that these institutional hierarchies are necessary to run society. We don't get rid of these structures we make it hard for abusers and people to exploit them. That means the structures, the hierarchies are something society implicitly recognises as the natural and necessary way we should order society to run properly and avoid chaos. </p><p></p><p>Like I said Trad marriage is coming back in vogue for a growing number of couples and families. They see the benefits and yet others like Feminist see it as abusive to womens rights. Who is ultimately right. I suggest that we let the facts and reality determine this and not the beliefs and ideology itselfr which is the very thing we are trying to dispel. </p><p></p><p>Thats the same for many of these beliefs and social norms. The obvious ones can be easily recognised like belief in physically damaging others according to the scientifically recognised measure of damaging people physically or mentally. But there are many upstream micro beliefs and attitudes that are not so obvious and its easy for people to assume that they are factual and the truth when they are not. </p><p></p><p>The only way we can sort this is to ground them in the facts and the reality of how they paan out when lived out. That takes an open and honest investigation because it is at this level of beliefs that abuse and violence grow out of. That is why I say linking belief to the mindset is important as it gives us empricle grounds for identifying whether these beliefs are positive or negative and lead to the type of thinking that supports abuse and violence.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77663096, member: 342064"] [URL='https://www.unicef.org/georgia/media/1191/file/Social%20Norms%20Analysis.pdf']I[/URL] am talking about beliefs in actual violent and abusive control and not the more ambiguious beliefs which don't spell out in its language that its necessarily violent and abusive controlling. Thats what we need to work out through the facts and science. We don't need to do that for a belief in violent and abusive controlling as it speaks for itself regardless of the determination of what is classed as 'violent and abusive controlling' because whatever it is the intension is to use whatever methods to violently and abusively control someone. Its like a belief that murder is good' It doesn't matter in what social context you want to put it the belief is abusive because the very definition of the language and word usage is about destruction and unjustified killing in the word 'Murder'. Just like in the words 'violent and abusive controlling'. Its a type of controling which is violent and abusive' to the victim. But the other attitudes and beliefs in relation to social norms, they are not so clear and we need to carefully investigate how they actually unfold and work in society. Some are more obvious than others. Like the belief in a strict and rigid upbringing may lean more towards the abusive side its not necessarily completely the case and there are some benefits in having some strictness and rigidity of roles in this regard. So we have to do some contextual investigation to clarify otherwise we can end up promoting unhealthy and negative beliefs themselves. Whereas other beliefs can be taken either way and can be both healthy and positive or unhealthy, negative and destructful. Which means we need to be even more vigelant in ensuring we don't assume these beliefs are automatically abusive to hold. That is why I think as your link says there needs to be a frank and honest discussion with all cards on the table, no view cancelled as to what exactly are the facts around which beliefs and attitudes are best to hold as a society. The problem is with these matters of rights is that its easy for people to promote ideology rather than facts and reality as its such a personal and emotive issue. So the idea that the parents should be at the top of the hierarchy of control within a family setup over the children rather than the child being at the top over the parents is abusive. The idea that the chain of command where control and power over people increases towards the top of the hierarchy of command is abusive. The idea that social policy and laws which allow the government and its agencccies to have power over and control the behaviours of society, of certain sectors of society is abusive. The idea that people as a collective can force someone to conform to behaviour they believe is appropriate is inherently abusive. Life provides the justification for violence anywhere. The idea of checks and balances within these societal hierarchies is a recognition that these institutional hierarchies are necessary to run society. We don't get rid of these structures we make it hard for abusers and people to exploit them. That means the structures, the hierarchies are something society implicitly recognises as the natural and necessary way we should order society to run properly and avoid chaos. Like I said Trad marriage is coming back in vogue for a growing number of couples and families. They see the benefits and yet others like Feminist see it as abusive to womens rights. Who is ultimately right. I suggest that we let the facts and reality determine this and not the beliefs and ideology itselfr which is the very thing we are trying to dispel. Thats the same for many of these beliefs and social norms. The obvious ones can be easily recognised like belief in physically damaging others according to the scientifically recognised measure of damaging people physically or mentally. But there are many upstream micro beliefs and attitudes that are not so obvious and its easy for people to assume that they are factual and the truth when they are not. The only way we can sort this is to ground them in the facts and the reality of how they paan out when lived out. That takes an open and honest investigation because it is at this level of beliefs that abuse and violence grow out of. That is why I say linking belief to the mindset is important as it gives us empricle grounds for identifying whether these beliefs are positive or negative and lead to the type of thinking that supports abuse and violence. [/QUOTE]
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