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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77649091" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>It would be flimsy based on your strawman considering I havn't claimed that distress causes abusive behaviour. I have proven beyond doubt that distress is linked to abusive beliefs and behaviours the vast majority of the time.</p><p></p><p>As there is no single cause of abusive behaviour no single factor including belief can be said to cause abusive behaviour. So your creating a strawman to argue against and knock down.</p><p></p><p>Your not getting it. There is no single cause of abuse. Its a combination of factors. Even your links state this. If you want to exclude the factors that contribute to abuse then you have nothing as to why people abuse.</p><p></p><p>If you make belief itself the only cause of abuse then you are distorting why people abuse and any approach to remedying the problem will also be distorted and cause more problems.</p><p></p><p>You can call it cause but we cannot say that any specific factors cause abuse. That is why professionals don't really talk in terms of specific causes but use the Risk and protective factors. This is the same approach for all social behavioural problems. We cannot say that any specific factor causes these behaviours.</p><p></p><p>But we can look at the individual, family, community and wider societal factors as an all encompassing influence with a combination of factors at each level influencing attitudes, beliefs and behaviour. Where individuals and families and communities within the wider community have different and varyings experiences and factors, conditions, family functioning ect which all contribute to either increasing the risk factors or the protective factors.</p><p></p><p>Abuse is the result of a combination of risk factors minus any protective factors.</p><p></p><p>How is a statement such as this not clear </p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>Numerous factors were consistently related to more positive parenting attitudes (i.e., more appropriate parenting expectations, greater empathy, and valuing non-physical punishment), </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>including lower levels of caregiver depressive <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/symptoms" target="_blank"><u>symptoms</u></a> and less severity of stressful <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/life-events" target="_blank"><u>life events</u></a> .</strong></em></span></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Parental attitudes are the by-product of a </strong></span></em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>parents own personal and psychological resources</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em> such as their own prior family experiences and functioning, and contextual sources of stress and degree of outside stressors. </em></span></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Elevated levels of </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>parent dysfunctional/irrational cognitions are associated with parental distress</strong></span></em></p><p></p><p>Heres one for you lol </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Divergent etiological viewpoints of child abuse</span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong> stress psychological disturbance in parents</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">, abuse-eliciting characteristics of children, dysfunctional patterns of family interaction, </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>stress-inducing social forces, and abuse-promoting cultural values. </strong></span></em></p><p></p><p>Its your link, why did you post it if it was only about correlations to support your arguement when you claim correlates are not causative. Your having an each way bet lol.</p><p></p><p>Your article is about the determinants of abusive attitudes, expectations and beliefs of parents. There is no other way to measure parental beliefs than through the determinants. Their is no magic bullet as to why people believe what they believe. Belief is the result of experiences and therefore vary sothere is no specific cause and only correlates. But some correlates can have more of a direct and bigger influence than others.</p><p></p><p>Didn't you refer to the PRIBS. You ask me which measure they were using in the PRIBS for articles I linked. Otherwise why did you bring up the PRIBS if not relevant.</p><p></p><p>Then you misunderstand the PRIBS. Its not measuring specific examples of beliefs such as in rigid roles or controlling marriages or hierarchies. Its measuring the cognitive states which create the beliefs in rigid roles and abusive hierarchies.</p><p></p><p>This is what I have been trying to explain to you. You are focusing on the symptoms, the examples of how the controlling mindset thinks of ways to control and abuse others. The core beliefs such as 'Demandingness' is the mindset that thinks and percieves the world in rigid and controlling and demanding ways.</p><p></p><p>So the core belief of 'Demandingness' and to a lessor degree the 3 other core beliefs cover the Mindset of all irrational beliefs. Which includes the distress that leads to the awefullizing and the low frustration, ect which are all involved to varying degrees, But for abusive parenting 'Demandingness' is the basis for all controlling and rigid type thinking, beliefs and behaviour.</p><p></p><p>I have many times you it just doesn't register with you, I don't know why. Maybe a different ideological standpoint.</p><p></p><p>But if you remember I have said that these risk factors combine and they can vary from person to person and that they feed into each other and are often comorbib. So when you find one you usually find another or others.</p><p></p><p>So in that sense they sort of blend into each other so theres no clear seperation where we can say this is where psychological distress stopped and substance abuse took over. They often feed off each other and its often a downhill trajectory once a person has 2 or 3 risk factors. So how can anyone show specific seperate influences.</p><p></p><p>But nonetheless I have more than adequately shown their link to abuse in more than one way as far as articles just focusing on the socioeconomic angle and how this leads to other risks and abuse. Or the past abuse angle, the psychological distress angle, the family structure angle, the DV angle, the stress angle. Each linking to other risks and then all converging on a link to abuse and violent behaviour.</p><p></p><p>Your creating another strawman. I will repeat what I was asking.</p><p></p><p>I wasn't asking what the article was about. I was asking "are you claiming the article did not refer to the connection with abuse" even in passing in any of the rest of the content we cannot see. Which would be the vast majority of text. Such as in the background section or introduction ect which give some background to the topic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77649091, member: 342064"] It would be flimsy based on your strawman considering I havn't claimed that distress causes abusive behaviour. I have proven beyond doubt that distress is linked to abusive beliefs and behaviours the vast majority of the time. As there is no single cause of abusive behaviour no single factor including belief can be said to cause abusive behaviour. So your creating a strawman to argue against and knock down. Your not getting it. There is no single cause of abuse. Its a combination of factors. Even your links state this. If you want to exclude the factors that contribute to abuse then you have nothing as to why people abuse. If you make belief itself the only cause of abuse then you are distorting why people abuse and any approach to remedying the problem will also be distorted and cause more problems. You can call it cause but we cannot say that any specific factors cause abuse. That is why professionals don't really talk in terms of specific causes but use the Risk and protective factors. This is the same approach for all social behavioural problems. We cannot say that any specific factor causes these behaviours. But we can look at the individual, family, community and wider societal factors as an all encompassing influence with a combination of factors at each level influencing attitudes, beliefs and behaviour. Where individuals and families and communities within the wider community have different and varyings experiences and factors, conditions, family functioning ect which all contribute to either increasing the risk factors or the protective factors. Abuse is the result of a combination of risk factors minus any protective factors. How is a statement such as this not clear [COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I]Numerous factors were consistently related to more positive parenting attitudes (i.e., more appropriate parenting expectations, greater empathy, and valuing non-physical punishment), [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]including lower levels of caregiver depressive [URL='https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/symptoms'][U]symptoms[/U][/URL] and less severity of stressful [URL='https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/life-events'][U]life events[/U][/URL] .[/B][/I][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Parental attitudes are the by-product of a [/B][/COLOR][/I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]parents own personal and psychological resources[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] such as their own prior family experiences and functioning, and contextual sources of stress and degree of outside stressors. [/I][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Elevated levels of [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]parent dysfunctional/irrational cognitions are associated with parental distress[/B][/COLOR][/I] Heres one for you lol [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Divergent etiological viewpoints of child abuse[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B] stress psychological disturbance in parents[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)], abuse-eliciting characteristics of children, dysfunctional patterns of family interaction, [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]stress-inducing social forces, and abuse-promoting cultural values. [/B][/COLOR][/I] Its your link, why did you post it if it was only about correlations to support your arguement when you claim correlates are not causative. Your having an each way bet lol. Your article is about the determinants of abusive attitudes, expectations and beliefs of parents. There is no other way to measure parental beliefs than through the determinants. Their is no magic bullet as to why people believe what they believe. Belief is the result of experiences and therefore vary sothere is no specific cause and only correlates. But some correlates can have more of a direct and bigger influence than others. Didn't you refer to the PRIBS. You ask me which measure they were using in the PRIBS for articles I linked. Otherwise why did you bring up the PRIBS if not relevant. Then you misunderstand the PRIBS. Its not measuring specific examples of beliefs such as in rigid roles or controlling marriages or hierarchies. Its measuring the cognitive states which create the beliefs in rigid roles and abusive hierarchies. This is what I have been trying to explain to you. You are focusing on the symptoms, the examples of how the controlling mindset thinks of ways to control and abuse others. The core beliefs such as 'Demandingness' is the mindset that thinks and percieves the world in rigid and controlling and demanding ways. So the core belief of 'Demandingness' and to a lessor degree the 3 other core beliefs cover the Mindset of all irrational beliefs. Which includes the distress that leads to the awefullizing and the low frustration, ect which are all involved to varying degrees, But for abusive parenting 'Demandingness' is the basis for all controlling and rigid type thinking, beliefs and behaviour. I have many times you it just doesn't register with you, I don't know why. Maybe a different ideological standpoint. But if you remember I have said that these risk factors combine and they can vary from person to person and that they feed into each other and are often comorbib. So when you find one you usually find another or others. So in that sense they sort of blend into each other so theres no clear seperation where we can say this is where psychological distress stopped and substance abuse took over. They often feed off each other and its often a downhill trajectory once a person has 2 or 3 risk factors. So how can anyone show specific seperate influences. But nonetheless I have more than adequately shown their link to abuse in more than one way as far as articles just focusing on the socioeconomic angle and how this leads to other risks and abuse. Or the past abuse angle, the psychological distress angle, the family structure angle, the DV angle, the stress angle. Each linking to other risks and then all converging on a link to abuse and violent behaviour. Your creating another strawman. I will repeat what I was asking. I wasn't asking what the article was about. I was asking "are you claiming the article did not refer to the connection with abuse" even in passing in any of the rest of the content we cannot see. Which would be the vast majority of text. Such as in the background section or introduction ect which give some background to the topic. [/QUOTE]
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