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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Kid's Corporal Punishment - a Risk to Mental Health
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 77649002" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>But there not my claims. I have linked the evidence and supported these with multiple independent links such as linking stress and distress with abuse beliefs and behaviours. Repeated verification be several independent credible sources is convincing evidence as it meets the high standard of evidence. </p><p></p><p>But if you take out the acceptance of violence, power and control to abuse others then the stool collapses. The hierarchies and roles then become neutral structures that neither abuse or don't abuse. The human element of adding the human ability to control, disempower and commit violence is what makes the stool into something abusive. </p><p></p><p>Likewise we could replace the leg that wants to control, abuse and violate with a leg that is neutral or even beneficial which would then make the hiearchies and roles of benefit and good for society. So it all depends on the human factor and whether they are using the situation for abuse or for benefit and good healthy reasons. </p><p></p><p>Yes and in challenging beliefs your also challenging a can of worms that involves parents psychological distress and the conditions for which they live in and experience. </p><p></p><p>A parent has unrealistic beliefs and expectations about their child and your going to walk in there and tell them they have the wrong beliefs and attitudes and offer not support with their disadvantage that put them there. This seems cruel and judemental. </p><p></p><p>Did I say cause of. You keep looking for this special cause of abuse and violence when there is none. There is no single cause of abuse and violence. Your taking a narrow and unreal view of why people abuse and use violence. How many times have I said this and you keep ignoring it. </p><p></p><p>Your creating another strawman , in fact the same strawman over and over again like you cannot deal with abuse being caused by a combination of factors. </p><p></p><p>No that is what you claimed. The PRIBS did not state anywhere that it was inadequate in measuring the beliefs and attitudes associated with abusive and controlling parenting including abusive punishment. </p><p></p><p>In fact like I said the core belief of 'Demandingness' was the basic measure of beliefs associated with abusive and controlling parenting ie </p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>Demandingness: This category of irrational beliefs contains absolutist, rigid beliefs which include should, ought, have to statements. </strong></span></em><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"> </span> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">This study demonstrates that the Parent Irrational Beliefs Scale is a valid and reliable for assessing irrational parents’ beliefs.</span></em></p><p><a href="https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ936304.pdf" target="_blank">https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ936304.pdf</a></p><p></p><p>Note <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">"<em>reliable for assessing irrational parents’ beliefs</em></span><em><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">"</span></em> including those about parenting and the use of maladaptive, dysfunctional and abusive parenting. </p><p></p><p>This is the core belief out of the 4 core beliefs that cover all beliefs and attitudes about parenting that underpins the Mindset that comes up with ideas like rigid roles and abusive and controlling hierarchies. The article referred to how this core belief relates to beliefs in abusive discipline ie</p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">The aim of the P-RIBS is to contribute to identifying </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>cognitive mechanisms that are responsible for parental dysregulated affect and behaviour.</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> The validation of the P-RIBS has a number of implications to the field of parenting research and interventions. Specifically, the P-RIBS could lead to further </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>understanding of parents’ thinking in selecting different discipline strategies, such as adaptive or maladaptive responses. </strong></span></em> <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042811022749?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=8776870729d1a868" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042811022749?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=8776870729d1a868</a></p><p> </p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Parental beliefs also consist of </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>parents' beliefs about child-rearing, parental expectations, and attribution from their children, parental perceptions of children's behavior, and parental self-efficacy. </strong></span></em></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>Parent </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>demandingness</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em> refers to an </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>unrealistic expectation</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em> of events of themselves as parents, or of others, in this case, their children (DiGiuseppe & Ketler, 2006). </em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em></em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>The theory suggests that </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>demandingness, or "absolutistic, rigid adherence to an idea,"</strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em> is the core of disturbance and that the </em></span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><em><strong>other beliefs are less critical and are created from demandingness </strong></em></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"><em>(DiGiuseppe et al., 2014). </em></span></p><p><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> </span></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)">Research regarding parents' rational and IBs has stressed </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>the role these cognitions play in parenting behaviors and the negative impact that irrational beliefs could have on parenting practices</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (Ellis et al., 1966; Bugenthal & Johnson, 2000). Literature on this topic has shown that the types of attributions parents make about the cause (or causes) of their child's behavior </span><span style="color: rgb(44, 130, 201)"><strong>can explain parents' emotional and behavioral responses toward their child</strong></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 172, 210)"> (Harrison & Sofronoff, 2002). </span></em></p><p><em><a href="https://scholar.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1640&context=theses_dissertations" target="_blank">https://scholar.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1640&context=theses_dissertations</a> </em></p><p></p><p>OK well as per above I cannot remember you addressing this specifically. Besides all your objecting that the P-RIBS not covering beliefs about abusive and controlling parenting this doesn't change the fact that it does cover these beliefs specifically. </p><p></p><p>The entire P-RIBS is about rational and irrational beliefs about parenting and its effect on childrens development. Do you honestly believe that such a commonly used and referred to scale would not cover one of the most relevant beliefs about parenting, ones related to abusive parenting. </p><p></p><p>Yes as the article says 'Demandingness' is the fundemental core belief that relates to parental abusive demands and dicipline of their child. They describe this core belief as being about rigidity, controlling, demanding certain outcomes which are directly related to harsh and abusive treatment and disicipline. </p><p></p><p>But the other beliefs are also connected in so far as they contribute. Like 'Low Frustration Tolerance'. This is about being anxious, impatient, not tolerating situations that may upset the parent. </p><p> </p><p>Awfulizing-AWF making things worse than they actually are which is apparent when parents are abusing kids for what is age appropriate behaviour. But generally making many things worse than they really are, unreal expectations and evaluations so that things are distorted.</p><p></p><p>'Downingness' of self, others and the world. Putting others down, expecting them to be better, always not good enough. The worlds unfair, I'm not good enough (self efficency) which is mentioned in other articles where the parent either thinks they are not good enough or thinks they are better than they really are. </p><p></p><p>But Demandingness seems to be the core belief behind abusive and controlling beliefs. The others may be more related to creating unreal expectations and beliefs about self, the child and the situation and world they are in.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 77649002, member: 342064"] But there not my claims. I have linked the evidence and supported these with multiple independent links such as linking stress and distress with abuse beliefs and behaviours. Repeated verification be several independent credible sources is convincing evidence as it meets the high standard of evidence. But if you take out the acceptance of violence, power and control to abuse others then the stool collapses. The hierarchies and roles then become neutral structures that neither abuse or don't abuse. The human element of adding the human ability to control, disempower and commit violence is what makes the stool into something abusive. Likewise we could replace the leg that wants to control, abuse and violate with a leg that is neutral or even beneficial which would then make the hiearchies and roles of benefit and good for society. So it all depends on the human factor and whether they are using the situation for abuse or for benefit and good healthy reasons. Yes and in challenging beliefs your also challenging a can of worms that involves parents psychological distress and the conditions for which they live in and experience. A parent has unrealistic beliefs and expectations about their child and your going to walk in there and tell them they have the wrong beliefs and attitudes and offer not support with their disadvantage that put them there. This seems cruel and judemental. Did I say cause of. You keep looking for this special cause of abuse and violence when there is none. There is no single cause of abuse and violence. Your taking a narrow and unreal view of why people abuse and use violence. How many times have I said this and you keep ignoring it. Your creating another strawman , in fact the same strawman over and over again like you cannot deal with abuse being caused by a combination of factors. No that is what you claimed. The PRIBS did not state anywhere that it was inadequate in measuring the beliefs and attitudes associated with abusive and controlling parenting including abusive punishment. In fact like I said the core belief of 'Demandingness' was the basic measure of beliefs associated with abusive and controlling parenting ie [I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]Demandingness: This category of irrational beliefs contains absolutist, rigid beliefs which include should, ought, have to statements. [/B][/COLOR][/I][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)] [/COLOR] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]This study demonstrates that the Parent Irrational Beliefs Scale is a valid and reliable for assessing irrational parents’ beliefs.[/COLOR][/I] [URL]https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ936304.pdf[/URL] Note [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]"[I]reliable for assessing irrational parents’ beliefs[/I][/COLOR][I][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]"[/COLOR][/I] including those about parenting and the use of maladaptive, dysfunctional and abusive parenting. This is the core belief out of the 4 core beliefs that cover all beliefs and attitudes about parenting that underpins the Mindset that comes up with ideas like rigid roles and abusive and controlling hierarchies. The article referred to how this core belief relates to beliefs in abusive discipline ie [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]The aim of the P-RIBS is to contribute to identifying [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]cognitive mechanisms that are responsible for parental dysregulated affect and behaviour.[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] The validation of the P-RIBS has a number of implications to the field of parenting research and interventions. Specifically, the P-RIBS could lead to further [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]understanding of parents’ thinking in selecting different discipline strategies, such as adaptive or maladaptive responses. [/B][/COLOR][/I] [URL]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042811022749?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=8776870729d1a868[/URL] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Parental beliefs also consist of [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]parents' beliefs about child-rearing, parental expectations, and attribution from their children, parental perceptions of children's behavior, and parental self-efficacy. [/B][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] [I]Parent [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]demandingness[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] refers to an [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]unrealistic expectation[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] of events of themselves as parents, or of others, in this case, their children (DiGiuseppe & Ketler, 2006). The theory suggests that [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]demandingness, or "absolutistic, rigid adherence to an idea,"[/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I] is the core of disturbance and that the [/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][I][B]other beliefs are less critical and are created from demandingness [/B][/I][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)][I](DiGiuseppe et al., 2014). [/I] [/COLOR] [I][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)]Research regarding parents' rational and IBs has stressed [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]the role these cognitions play in parenting behaviors and the negative impact that irrational beliefs could have on parenting practices[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] (Ellis et al., 1966; Bugenthal & Johnson, 2000). Literature on this topic has shown that the types of attributions parents make about the cause (or causes) of their child's behavior [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(44, 130, 201)][B]can explain parents' emotional and behavioral responses toward their child[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(84, 172, 210)] (Harrison & Sofronoff, 2002). [/COLOR] [URL]https://scholar.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1640&context=theses_dissertations[/URL] [/I] OK well as per above I cannot remember you addressing this specifically. Besides all your objecting that the P-RIBS not covering beliefs about abusive and controlling parenting this doesn't change the fact that it does cover these beliefs specifically. The entire P-RIBS is about rational and irrational beliefs about parenting and its effect on childrens development. Do you honestly believe that such a commonly used and referred to scale would not cover one of the most relevant beliefs about parenting, ones related to abusive parenting. Yes as the article says 'Demandingness' is the fundemental core belief that relates to parental abusive demands and dicipline of their child. They describe this core belief as being about rigidity, controlling, demanding certain outcomes which are directly related to harsh and abusive treatment and disicipline. But the other beliefs are also connected in so far as they contribute. Like 'Low Frustration Tolerance'. This is about being anxious, impatient, not tolerating situations that may upset the parent. Awfulizing-AWF making things worse than they actually are which is apparent when parents are abusing kids for what is age appropriate behaviour. But generally making many things worse than they really are, unreal expectations and evaluations so that things are distorted. 'Downingness' of self, others and the world. Putting others down, expecting them to be better, always not good enough. The worlds unfair, I'm not good enough (self efficency) which is mentioned in other articles where the parent either thinks they are not good enough or thinks they are better than they really are. But Demandingness seems to be the core belief behind abusive and controlling beliefs. The others may be more related to creating unreal expectations and beliefs about self, the child and the situation and world they are in. [/QUOTE]
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