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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hans Blaster" data-source="post: 77663430" data-attributes="member: 396028"><p>Frankly this half sentence makes no sense in context. You seem to be arguing against my claim that the US was never a unified Christian nation. Since that's the only one I care about, it is the one I will respond about. The rest had scattered wars of religion for centuries.</p><p></p><p>The western nations certainly do not have similar politics and that has been the case for a while. Fascism, communism, and liberal democracy are not "similar politics", but let's move on to more reasonable claims, like religious unity.</p><p></p><p>Let's start with the religious separatists. Those that are still Christians (and very devout) but have such differing views that they feel a need to live separately from the rest. Going back to the earliest, pre-US days of this land one of the first major colonies was formed by a group that were called "Separatists". A century later came German Amish and Mennonites and another century a home-brewed religious movement that is so different the majority of other Christians don't even consider them Christians -- Mormons. Then there were the 3 English colonies set up nominally to protect a group of Christians from other Christians -- Pennsylvania for Quakers, Maryland for Catholics, and Rhode Island (Providence Plantation) for non-Puritans. Yep, unified ideas, laws, conventions, and norms, that's the ticket. </p><p></p><p>It took a long time before even half of the land claimed and controlled by the US or its predecessor colonial states was occupied by Christians. The rest was occupied by non-Christian peoples.</p><p></p><p>But let us set aside for the moment the non-Christian native peoples outside of "western civilization" and the internal conflicts of various Christian sects. Were 90% of (non-native) Americans ever Christian? Perhaps, but it is hard to tell. A few percent of the people who were practicing a different religion (starting with Jews and then later other groups as well) have always been here. Especially earlier, before the conversion of most, the Africans held in bondage were almost all non-Christians. Then there are plenty of non-participating and non-believers. It only takes a few percent of them to break your 90% threshold. </p><p></p><p>Part of the problem we all suffer from is the impression of peak Christian participation in the post-war period (1946-1965) when Christian participation and birth rates boomed.</p><p></p><p>If you think this is a peak period of political turmoil, then you are ill informed about the politics of the past.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hans Blaster, post: 77663430, member: 396028"] Frankly this half sentence makes no sense in context. You seem to be arguing against my claim that the US was never a unified Christian nation. Since that's the only one I care about, it is the one I will respond about. The rest had scattered wars of religion for centuries. The western nations certainly do not have similar politics and that has been the case for a while. Fascism, communism, and liberal democracy are not "similar politics", but let's move on to more reasonable claims, like religious unity. Let's start with the religious separatists. Those that are still Christians (and very devout) but have such differing views that they feel a need to live separately from the rest. Going back to the earliest, pre-US days of this land one of the first major colonies was formed by a group that were called "Separatists". A century later came German Amish and Mennonites and another century a home-brewed religious movement that is so different the majority of other Christians don't even consider them Christians -- Mormons. Then there were the 3 English colonies set up nominally to protect a group of Christians from other Christians -- Pennsylvania for Quakers, Maryland for Catholics, and Rhode Island (Providence Plantation) for non-Puritans. Yep, unified ideas, laws, conventions, and norms, that's the ticket. It took a long time before even half of the land claimed and controlled by the US or its predecessor colonial states was occupied by Christians. The rest was occupied by non-Christian peoples. But let us set aside for the moment the non-Christian native peoples outside of "western civilization" and the internal conflicts of various Christian sects. Were 90% of (non-native) Americans ever Christian? Perhaps, but it is hard to tell. A few percent of the people who were practicing a different religion (starting with Jews and then later other groups as well) have always been here. Especially earlier, before the conversion of most, the Africans held in bondage were almost all non-Christians. Then there are plenty of non-participating and non-believers. It only takes a few percent of them to break your 90% threshold. Part of the problem we all suffer from is the impression of peak Christian participation in the post-war period (1946-1965) when Christian participation and birth rates boomed. If you think this is a peak period of political turmoil, then you are ill informed about the politics of the past. [/QUOTE]
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