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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hans Blaster" data-source="post: 77663024" data-attributes="member: 396028"><p>I've heard there is a new kind of Christianity, different than the normal kind called -- pro-test-tant. They might believe in something different, but then why would I bother. Religion bores me and always has.</p><p></p><p>WHAT!?!?!?</p><p></p><p>Christians don't believe Christianity because it is *factual*? Do you not think heaven and hell are factual? God and Jesus are factual? the Resurection was factual? the miracles of Jesus were factual? Are you that blinded by a need to slam naturalism, that you mistook "factual" for "evidenced"? </p><p></p><p>What I said is that despite no longer finding those things I just listed and many more to be true/factual anymore, for a long time (at least a decade) I still held enough favor in my mind to grant the "Christian" label certain latitude and favorable impressions even though I didn't believe any of its teachings. When the bad behavior of Christians were called out by other Christians as "un-Christian" I accepted that position and agreed with them. Even though I disagreed with the supernatural claims of Christianity, I maintained a position, not unlike the one you express in this thread repeatedly that Christianity was generally good thing.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to repeat it in a different way so you can understand this. I was not cynical about Christianity when I found this site during a deep dive down a (non-Christian related) pseudoscience rabbit hole. I was generally disposed to positive feelings about it. (Though from in-person exposure, I didn't fully trust those known as "evangelicals".) Then I came here. In arguments people would link to outside sources of kinds I'd never seen before. I saw the "Christian arguments" and the counter arguments, apologetics (which I'd never even heard of before), debates, etc. I heard arguments for non-religious alternatives to the kind of thing you often insist must come from a god (morality, etc.) And above all I saw a lot of people practicing deliberate distortion of facts in support of Christianity (or at least their version of it). "Lying for Jesus" you could call it. It killed any nostalgic preference I had once given my old faith and left it clear that Christianity was just one of many religions I didn't believe. Though I am no expert on it, Christianity is the religion I know the most about, and when appropriate can most easily criticize.</p><p></p><p>Christians certainly have done good and often in the name or motivation of their faith. I cannot and would not dispute that, but Christianity is just a religion to me and its spiritual/supernatural claims are no more credible than those of any other religion. Christians are fine, Christianity not so much.</p><p></p><p>To restate a greater physicist than myself: "For good people to do good and bad people to do evil is normal, but for good people to do evil requires religion."</p><p></p><p>Yes, I am cynical about religion, but I didn't start that way. Not when I was losing my faith, and not even when I discovered I did not believe in God, or even a decade or more after.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hans Blaster, post: 77663024, member: 396028"] I've heard there is a new kind of Christianity, different than the normal kind called -- pro-test-tant. They might believe in something different, but then why would I bother. Religion bores me and always has. WHAT!?!?!? Christians don't believe Christianity because it is *factual*? Do you not think heaven and hell are factual? God and Jesus are factual? the Resurection was factual? the miracles of Jesus were factual? Are you that blinded by a need to slam naturalism, that you mistook "factual" for "evidenced"? What I said is that despite no longer finding those things I just listed and many more to be true/factual anymore, for a long time (at least a decade) I still held enough favor in my mind to grant the "Christian" label certain latitude and favorable impressions even though I didn't believe any of its teachings. When the bad behavior of Christians were called out by other Christians as "un-Christian" I accepted that position and agreed with them. Even though I disagreed with the supernatural claims of Christianity, I maintained a position, not unlike the one you express in this thread repeatedly that Christianity was generally good thing. I'm going to repeat it in a different way so you can understand this. I was not cynical about Christianity when I found this site during a deep dive down a (non-Christian related) pseudoscience rabbit hole. I was generally disposed to positive feelings about it. (Though from in-person exposure, I didn't fully trust those known as "evangelicals".) Then I came here. In arguments people would link to outside sources of kinds I'd never seen before. I saw the "Christian arguments" and the counter arguments, apologetics (which I'd never even heard of before), debates, etc. I heard arguments for non-religious alternatives to the kind of thing you often insist must come from a god (morality, etc.) And above all I saw a lot of people practicing deliberate distortion of facts in support of Christianity (or at least their version of it). "Lying for Jesus" you could call it. It killed any nostalgic preference I had once given my old faith and left it clear that Christianity was just one of many religions I didn't believe. Though I am no expert on it, Christianity is the religion I know the most about, and when appropriate can most easily criticize. Christians certainly have done good and often in the name or motivation of their faith. I cannot and would not dispute that, but Christianity is just a religion to me and its spiritual/supernatural claims are no more credible than those of any other religion. Christians are fine, Christianity not so much. To restate a greater physicist than myself: "For good people to do good and bad people to do evil is normal, but for good people to do evil requires religion." Yes, I am cynical about religion, but I didn't start that way. Not when I was losing my faith, and not even when I discovered I did not believe in God, or even a decade or more after. [/QUOTE]
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