Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Struggles by Non-Christians
I think I'm unregnerate, reprobate, vessel of wrath, despairing, tried all I can think of
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="aiki" data-source="post: 74269412" data-attributes="member: 178791"><p>@ diana092086:</p><p></p><p><em>Do you think this is so because you are too full of yourself? What room is there in you for God?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><strong><em>Wouldn't that be a work of my own to "make room" for God?</em></strong></p><p></p><p>You aren't a puppet. Or a robot. You are response-able - responsible - for the choices you make. In any case, I didn't suggest that you make room. I was merely observing the problem you're having with God. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I know all these things. I've tried to ask God/surrender to Him. I know so much. I know all these things that are supposed to happen in the Christian life but without being one. I think I'm deceiving myself. </em></strong> </p><p></p><p>I don't think you do know "all these things." Or, perhaps, the problem is that, while knowing them, you don't really understand them.</p><p></p><p>It's a certainty that you <em>are</em> deceiving yourself in some way. We all are. That's why God is so necessary. He peels off the blinders of self-deception that we cannot recognize we have. And these blinders must come off if we are to walk well with Him. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I know this too. But I don't know how to let Him. I know He chooses some, not all. He draws who He saves. He chooses, then who He chooses responds to Him. I can't choose Him.</em></strong> </p><p></p><p>Uh oh. I can see now part of your underlying problem: Calvinist/Reformed theology. There are better, more biblically-accurate, more rational, approaches to the doctrines of salvation than Calvinism:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.soteriology101.com" target="_blank">www.soteriology101.com</a> See also "Molinism" at <a href="http://www.reasonablefaith.org" target="_blank">www.reasonablefaith.org</a></p><p></p><p>You can and must freely choose God. He does the work of drawing you, convicting you, illuminating your mind to His truth, persuading you to choose Christ, but, in the end, <em>you</em> must choose. As I said, you aren't a robot or puppet. It won't wash, then, to take refuge from your unwillingness to bend your knee to God in the Calvinist idea of Election. It is not God's fault that you are unwilling to yield to Him; it's entirely yours. </p><p></p><p><em><strong>I feel in a way this would be me trying to save myself - trying to focus on Him, dwell on Him and that I'm still without the Holy Spirit. </strong> </em></p><p></p><p>God has made every one of us to be conformed in some measure and way to that upon which we focus. It's just human nature. Why would God not use this characteristic to His ends in our lives? You will be conformed to your focus. If your focus is upon you, you will remain caught in yourself, growing more and more hardened in who you are. But if you'll turn your eyes upon Christ, as the Bible commands, and keep your focus upon him, human nature being what it is, you will begin to be conformed to him. Is this saving yourself? No. But it is cooperating with God in the transformation He wants to work in you. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>Some people just can't believe. I really wish I could. I know I can't make myself.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Forgive me for being blunt, but this is nonsense. It is so...human of you to try to distance yourself from your responsibility to choose Christ. The fact is, you can't go a day without exercising faith in something: your hairstylist, your doctor, your dentist, the mailman, the cook at your favorite restaurant, the power company, other drivers on the road, and so on. You <em>can</em> believe and you do so all the time. You simply don't want to believe in God. He gets in the way of running your own life as you like, of being your own boss. </p><p></p><p>Can you make yourself want God? No. But you can certainly appeal to God to change what you desire. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I'm still afraid of hell.</em></strong> </p><p></p><p>And so you should be. This is the eternal destiny of all those who want their own way rather than God's, who want to be their own god. God will give each of them exactly what they want: an existence separate from Him where they can absorb themselves entirely with themselves forever. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I've always asked about their faith and desired that kind of faith for myself - so I tried to learn so much to see if that would help me, but it didn't. </em></strong> </p><p></p><p>Learning <em>about</em> God cannot make up for knowing Him personally. Knowledge of God is important, but it is not God Himself. But this is what you need. Not more facts about God, but God Himself. The problem is, you want yourself more than you want Him. This only God can change. And He will as you persist in asking Him to do so. You aren't beyond God's power to change - though I think you may want to be. </p><p> </p><p><strong><em>I just don't think I'm chosen. I don't know what to do anymore. Walk away? - I really don't want to. Kill myself? - I really don't want to. I wish I just had a simple faith in Him and had that relationship. I just feel like I'm forcing something that's not for me.</em></strong> </p><p></p><p>Well, of course it's not you. You are, left to yourself, only about you. You know enough to know you ought to be different and some part of you seems to want that, so take the small step of asking God to change you. You don't have to have some great, swelling desire to change. A tiny glimmer of interest is enough. But act on that glimmer and press God to do what only He can do in you. </p><p></p><p>None of us is "chosen" in the Calvinist sense. That's just irrational nonsense. We are elect <em>in Christ. </em>All those who choose him become elect in him. You can't escape being responsible for what you choose. You know the Gospel, you know the truth of God's revelation of Himself in His word, and now you are doubly responsible for what you do with that knowledge. </p><p></p><p>Killing yourself is not the answer. Yielding to God is. Are you so self-obsessed that you would die rather than submit yourself to your loving, gracious Creator?</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Like I said earlier, I just feel empty and void too.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>This is exactly how you ought to feel without God on the throne of your heart where He should be. When He is not seated there, you are not whole. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I'm not really impressed by much. I feel so hardened. I know how terrible I am - I've asked God to save me so many times.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Are you thinking that when you ask God to save you that somehow you ought to be instantly and forever transformed into an all-perfected saint? God saves <em><u>sinners</u></em>. He saves miserable, sin-cursed wretches caught up in all sorts of vile things. And when He does, He then sets about cleaning them up and deepening them in their walk with Him. This is a <em><u>life-long process</u></em> of transformation, however; it does not happen instantly. Every child of God comes to love God more and more over time; every child of God comes to trust Him more and more over time; every child of God comes to enjoy God more and more over time; and every child of God learns to die to themselves more and more over time. </p><p></p><p>Has God saved you? I don't know. Do you exhibit the marks of God's indwelling Spirit? </p><p></p><p><strong><em> I know the facts in my head but have trouble really believing in my heart.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>What does "believing in my heart" mean, exactly? Do you think the faith you have as you begin to walk with God is as deep and full as it will ever be? Will your faith not expand as you journey with God? Scripture teaches that it does. So, then, why is a small faith at the start of your walk with God an issue? It's not. </p><p></p><p><strong><em> I haven't always believed it - I've questioned and have been skeptical. </em></strong></p><p></p><p>So have I. Questioning and healthy skepticism is good. It's part of being a thinking, rational person. Here are some websites that will help answer your questions and challenge your skepticism:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.crossexamined.org" target="_blank">www.crossexamined.org</a></p><p><a href="http://www.reasonablefaith.org" target="_blank">www.reasonablefaith.org</a></p><p><a href="http://www.str.org" target="_blank">www.str.org</a></p><p></p><p><strong><em>Maybe I'll never believe. I really want to believe - I want to go to heaven. I don't want to live in fear. I wish I wanted God for God.</em></strong> </p><p></p><p>And what is supposed to happen as you focus on your lack of faith? Will your faith be encouraged? Will it be helped to grow by your despairing over its weakness? No. Take what little faith you have, what little desire to believe you've got and allow God to build on it. Take whatever small steps toward God that you can. He is not asking you to be a spiritual giant overnight. Like a baby learning to walk, the immature believer needs a lot of support and assistance as s/he learns to stand and gains the strength to walk and run.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aiki, post: 74269412, member: 178791"] @ diana092086: [I]Do you think this is so because you are too full of yourself? What room is there in you for God? [/I] [B][I]Wouldn't that be a work of my own to "make room" for God?[/I][/B] You aren't a puppet. Or a robot. You are response-able - responsible - for the choices you make. In any case, I didn't suggest that you make room. I was merely observing the problem you're having with God. [B][I]I know all these things. I've tried to ask God/surrender to Him. I know so much. I know all these things that are supposed to happen in the Christian life but without being one. I think I'm deceiving myself. [/I][/B] I don't think you do know "all these things." Or, perhaps, the problem is that, while knowing them, you don't really understand them. It's a certainty that you [I]are[/I] deceiving yourself in some way. We all are. That's why God is so necessary. He peels off the blinders of self-deception that we cannot recognize we have. And these blinders must come off if we are to walk well with Him. [B][I]I know this too. But I don't know how to let Him. I know He chooses some, not all. He draws who He saves. He chooses, then who He chooses responds to Him. I can't choose Him.[/I][/B] Uh oh. I can see now part of your underlying problem: Calvinist/Reformed theology. There are better, more biblically-accurate, more rational, approaches to the doctrines of salvation than Calvinism: [URL="http://www.soteriology101.com"]www.soteriology101.com[/URL] See also "Molinism" at [URL="http://www.reasonablefaith.org"]www.reasonablefaith.org[/URL] You can and must freely choose God. He does the work of drawing you, convicting you, illuminating your mind to His truth, persuading you to choose Christ, but, in the end, [I]you[/I] must choose. As I said, you aren't a robot or puppet. It won't wash, then, to take refuge from your unwillingness to bend your knee to God in the Calvinist idea of Election. It is not God's fault that you are unwilling to yield to Him; it's entirely yours. [I][B]I feel in a way this would be me trying to save myself - trying to focus on Him, dwell on Him and that I'm still without the Holy Spirit. [/B] [/I] God has made every one of us to be conformed in some measure and way to that upon which we focus. It's just human nature. Why would God not use this characteristic to His ends in our lives? You will be conformed to your focus. If your focus is upon you, you will remain caught in yourself, growing more and more hardened in who you are. But if you'll turn your eyes upon Christ, as the Bible commands, and keep your focus upon him, human nature being what it is, you will begin to be conformed to him. Is this saving yourself? No. But it is cooperating with God in the transformation He wants to work in you. [B][I]Some people just can't believe. I really wish I could. I know I can't make myself.[/I][/B] [B][I][/I][/B] Forgive me for being blunt, but this is nonsense. It is so...human of you to try to distance yourself from your responsibility to choose Christ. The fact is, you can't go a day without exercising faith in something: your hairstylist, your doctor, your dentist, the mailman, the cook at your favorite restaurant, the power company, other drivers on the road, and so on. You [I]can[/I] believe and you do so all the time. You simply don't want to believe in God. He gets in the way of running your own life as you like, of being your own boss. Can you make yourself want God? No. But you can certainly appeal to God to change what you desire. [B][I]I'm still afraid of hell.[/I][/B] And so you should be. This is the eternal destiny of all those who want their own way rather than God's, who want to be their own god. God will give each of them exactly what they want: an existence separate from Him where they can absorb themselves entirely with themselves forever. [B][I]I've always asked about their faith and desired that kind of faith for myself - so I tried to learn so much to see if that would help me, but it didn't. [/I][/B] Learning [I]about[/I] God cannot make up for knowing Him personally. Knowledge of God is important, but it is not God Himself. But this is what you need. Not more facts about God, but God Himself. The problem is, you want yourself more than you want Him. This only God can change. And He will as you persist in asking Him to do so. You aren't beyond God's power to change - though I think you may want to be. [B][I]I just don't think I'm chosen. I don't know what to do anymore. Walk away? - I really don't want to. Kill myself? - I really don't want to. I wish I just had a simple faith in Him and had that relationship. I just feel like I'm forcing something that's not for me.[/I][/B] Well, of course it's not you. You are, left to yourself, only about you. You know enough to know you ought to be different and some part of you seems to want that, so take the small step of asking God to change you. You don't have to have some great, swelling desire to change. A tiny glimmer of interest is enough. But act on that glimmer and press God to do what only He can do in you. None of us is "chosen" in the Calvinist sense. That's just irrational nonsense. We are elect [I]in Christ. [/I]All those who choose him become elect in him. You can't escape being responsible for what you choose. You know the Gospel, you know the truth of God's revelation of Himself in His word, and now you are doubly responsible for what you do with that knowledge. Killing yourself is not the answer. Yielding to God is. Are you so self-obsessed that you would die rather than submit yourself to your loving, gracious Creator? [B][I]Like I said earlier, I just feel empty and void too.[/I][/B] [B][I][/I][/B] This is exactly how you ought to feel without God on the throne of your heart where He should be. When He is not seated there, you are not whole. [B][I]I'm not really impressed by much. I feel so hardened. I know how terrible I am - I've asked God to save me so many times.[/I][/B] Are you thinking that when you ask God to save you that somehow you ought to be instantly and forever transformed into an all-perfected saint? God saves [I][U]sinners[/U][/I]. He saves miserable, sin-cursed wretches caught up in all sorts of vile things. And when He does, He then sets about cleaning them up and deepening them in their walk with Him. This is a [I][U]life-long process[/U][/I] of transformation, however; it does not happen instantly. Every child of God comes to love God more and more over time; every child of God comes to trust Him more and more over time; every child of God comes to enjoy God more and more over time; and every child of God learns to die to themselves more and more over time. Has God saved you? I don't know. Do you exhibit the marks of God's indwelling Spirit? [B][I] I know the facts in my head but have trouble really believing in my heart.[/I][/B] [B][I][/I][/B] What does "believing in my heart" mean, exactly? Do you think the faith you have as you begin to walk with God is as deep and full as it will ever be? Will your faith not expand as you journey with God? Scripture teaches that it does. So, then, why is a small faith at the start of your walk with God an issue? It's not. [B][I] I haven't always believed it - I've questioned and have been skeptical. [/I][/B] So have I. Questioning and healthy skepticism is good. It's part of being a thinking, rational person. Here are some websites that will help answer your questions and challenge your skepticism: [URL="http://www.crossexamined.org"]www.crossexamined.org[/URL] [URL="http://www.reasonablefaith.org"]www.reasonablefaith.org[/URL] [URL="http://www.str.org"]www.str.org[/URL] [B][I]Maybe I'll never believe. I really want to believe - I want to go to heaven. I don't want to live in fear. I wish I wanted God for God.[/I][/B] And what is supposed to happen as you focus on your lack of faith? Will your faith be encouraged? Will it be helped to grow by your despairing over its weakness? No. Take what little faith you have, what little desire to believe you've got and allow God to build on it. Take whatever small steps toward God that you can. He is not asking you to be a spiritual giant overnight. Like a baby learning to walk, the immature believer needs a lot of support and assistance as s/he learns to stand and gains the strength to walk and run. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Outreach
Outreach
Struggles by Non-Christians
I think I'm unregnerate, reprobate, vessel of wrath, despairing, tried all I can think of
Top
Bottom