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<blockquote data-quote="BobRyan" data-source="post: 77533790" data-attributes="member: 235244"><p>As a good atheist/agnostic he argues that Jesus was a human that existed in real history , had a real mother, and was really crucified. Even anti-Christian Judaism affirms those details. Ben Shapiro as a non-believing Jew has a debate with a Christian and Ben affirms that same thing. </p><p></p><p>But neither Ben nor Bart affirm the miracles in the Bible regarding Christ or any Christian leaders. In<u><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"> John 14 </span></strong></u>Jesus says this -- </p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><u><strong>The one who has seen Me has seen the Father</strong></u></span>; how <em>can</em> you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><u><strong>otherwise believe because of the works themselves</strong></u></span>. 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, <span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)"><u><strong>the works that I do</strong></u></span>, he will do also; and greater <em>works</em> than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.</p><p></p><p>Jesus does not simply say "believe that I am a human that actually exists in real time" --</p><p>He says to believe in his supernatural relationship to the Father - as a member of the Godhead - and if for no other reason - than for the reason that His works testify to His divine Godhead status as the Son of God, the Son of Man (in the Dan 7 sense). </p><p></p><p>Bart is ok with Jesus as a human that existed 2000 years ago -- since his atheist/agnostic position allows for humans to have existed 2000 years ago and allows for a historic Jesus that got killed by Romans.</p><p></p><p>I think a lot of atheists could also sign up for that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 77533790, member: 235244"] As a good atheist/agnostic he argues that Jesus was a human that existed in real history , had a real mother, and was really crucified. Even anti-Christian Judaism affirms those details. Ben Shapiro as a non-believing Jew has a debate with a Christian and Ben affirms that same thing. But neither Ben nor Bart affirm the miracles in the Bible regarding Christ or any Christian leaders. In[U][B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)] John 14 [/COLOR][/B][/U]Jesus says this -- [INDENT][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][U][B]The one who has seen Me has seen the Father[/B][/U][/COLOR]; how [I]can[/I] you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][U][B]otherwise believe because of the works themselves[/B][/U][/COLOR]. 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, [COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)][U][B]the works that I do[/B][/U][/COLOR], he will do also; and greater [I]works[/I] than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.[/INDENT] Jesus does not simply say "believe that I am a human that actually exists in real time" -- He says to believe in his supernatural relationship to the Father - as a member of the Godhead - and if for no other reason - than for the reason that His works testify to His divine Godhead status as the Son of God, the Son of Man (in the Dan 7 sense). Bart is ok with Jesus as a human that existed 2000 years ago -- since his atheist/agnostic position allows for humans to have existed 2000 years ago and allows for a historic Jesus that got killed by Romans. I think a lot of atheists could also sign up for that. [/QUOTE]
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