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  1. Fervent

    Free will and determinism

    Now that you're no longer using the term "determinism" it's worth pointing out that the question begging can be even more clearly seen. Let's also dispose of the term "free will" by putting it in terms of causation, as in free will means that our decisions are not the result of prior causes. So...
  2. Fervent

    Free will and determinism

    No, I don't need to give a reason. Because I'm not the one making the argument, you are. And the burden of proof lies on the person making the argument. Never said it lead to concluding "Well, there can't have been a cause." But if I don't have an identifiable cause, the possibility is open...
  3. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    Your question was asking me to establish a chronology, which I don't find particularly interesting. Has nothing to do with whether or not I value the genealogies.
  4. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    What a strange accusation, I never said I skip the genealogies nor do I consider them unimportant. But I don't think we can draw concrete chronological conclusions from them, because establishing a chronology doesn't seem to be the author's purpose in providing the genealogies. If we look at the...
  5. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    I don't find much interest in questions such as this. I don't know how much time elapsed between Adam and Abraham, and I don't think establishing chronology was necessarily an interest of the Genesis author.
  6. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the second sentence, or if you're serious. Unless you have background knowledge of what you're searching up with AI, it's results are unreliable.
  7. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    I'm not sure what your source is but it's incorrect, yalad is used fairly frequently for distant descendents which is apparent when we look at lists like the genealogies of the high priests and the genealogy of David that both use yalad but have known gaps. In fact, in long genealogies that use...
  8. Fervent

    Free will and determinism

    I don't need to dismantle your argument if you're not going to present a compelling reason to accept its premises. And I've simply been responding to your posts in which you've attempted to "argue" by assertion and burden shifting. Without the premise that determinism is true, your argument is a...
  9. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    What about the "entire surrounding context" makes you say that? It's not that someone would conclude that it isn't about fathers having sons, but that the relationship is unspecified and therefore unknown. The lack of a clarifying narrative makes it possible that the genealogy is just giving a...
  10. Fervent

    Free will and determinism

    Skepticism towards your premise requires no justification on my part. I don't need a reason to reject your premise, you need to give me a compelling reason to accept it. Not meant to be an argument, because no argument is necessary when something is self-evident. I don't agree with the...
  11. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    You didn't, because the question at hand is whether calculating the genealogies is a valid application of the text. I'm not trying to argue about when the Earth was created, because I honestly don't care if it was 6,000 years ago or 4.5 billion years ago. But I do care about interpretation...
  12. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    You seem to not understand what I have asked you, because I never made a positive statement about whether or not gaps exist. I said there are issues that create possible gaps, which is evidenced by the fact that everyone who indepently tries to calculate the age of the Earth comes up with a...
  13. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    I didn't ask you to speculate on why they're coming up with their particular numbers, but your complaint shows exactly what I am trying to point out. If the calculations were spelled out so clearly in Scripture, why do all of these various methods for calculating it exist? Wouldn't the necessary...
  14. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    You haven't shown something in the Scriptures, since the only thing in the Scriptures is the numbers themselves. You've inferred that there's a significance to those numbers, and that the significance is to allow for calculating the age of the Earth. That's not written in the Scriptures...
  15. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    Matthew and Luke are irrelevant to this discussion, yes. As for specific genealogical gaps, I don't think it would be fruitful to get into arguing over where the possible gaps are, if you're really interested there's lots of debates and discussions you can google about them. Instead, I'll simply...
  16. Fervent

    Why Do Christians Lie About What God Said in Genesis 2:17?

    Speculative. You've gotten away from "well, God said it." to attempting to use reason. "might" be a good way, sure, but no where is there any indication or instruction that we are supposed to do calculations. Maybe the timing simply wasn't important to what God wanted to convey, so there is no...
  17. Fervent

    Which denomination is the right one?

    I can't help but notice you didn't answer my questions. Why should we trust trail of blood over mountains of textual evidence that contradicts it? If the historical record was tampered with to such an extent that the historical documents that exist are all untrustworthy, how did the author of...
  18. Fervent

    Which denomination is the right one?

    Nice meeting and chatting with you as well. You're not "under fire," you're being asked to support your claims. Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to generate a few for us to look at, should it? So why instead do you turn to suppositions? Historical documentation exists, whether or not...
  19. Fervent

    Which denomination is the right one?

    Your entire question is incredibly anachronistic, and is nothing but a distraction. I'm not going to engage in a game of speculative hypotheticals, that's not evidentiary support. So far, it seems that the only thing you have to go on is the writings of a 20th century baptist minister and seem...
  20. Fervent

    Which denomination is the right one?

    I'm stating what I have gleaned from reading the historical sources, the fact is most of the groups didn't go under the names we know them by the names developed to describe the groups after the fact usually based on the most prominent figures in the movements. We have fairly good documentation...